Iranian Economy.....news and discussions

[MyNameAintJeff]

Oh believe me, the changes brought about by what is known as feminism were never reflective of a spontaneous, widely shared desire on the part of the broad female public.

Practically every leading feminist originated from a wealthy bourgeois household; one will have a hard time finding many working class females amongst early feminist figureheads. Indeed the working class is inherently conservative in cultural matters. As for females, by essence they blossom as family women and caring mothers rather than as interchangeable, disposable economic agents forced to rent out their physical and cognitive abilities for survival.

Also feminism is a modern day subversion introduced by capitalist oligarchs and freemasonry, with heavy support from globalist and zionist elites. Not some continuous ancient struggle stretching back thousands of years. It was initiated because it served the respective agendas of each one of the mentioned groups. Namely, the capitalist order at a specific historic juncture required females to be put to work in order to continue functioning. Having exploited the readily available male workforce to the hilt, further accumulation of capital, in the absence of which the system would collapse, called for mobilizing females next.

Likewise, the profound destabilization of the family structure which would inevitably ensue, was in line with the objectives of masonry and the anthropological transformations it is pursuing. These same forces in the western world would later give rise to phenomena such as mass abortion, rampant births out of wedlock etc. And they intend to impose this model on the entire planet. But as long as people conscious of the stakes exist, their propaganda, their social engineering will be denounced and resisted.

In traditional societies females usually did not go to work outside or far beyond the vicinity of their dwellings. This is the historic reality.



Generalized integration of females into the workforce will necessarily have an unfavorable impact on the preservation of the traditional family structure, and there's nothing much a government no matter its competence could possibly do about it. It's simply in the nature of things.

Second wave feminism, which was the most destructive wave of feminism, was mostly created and led by women belonging to a certain ethno-religious group:

 

[HGV]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1648384964474314767

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

It seems countries like Indonesia, US, Qatar, Norway, Azerbaijan, Australia, China, Netherlands, Kazakhstan, Peru, Vietnam, Cameroon, Ethiopia, Kenya are doing better than other countries.

Out of these 14 successful countries in regards to both maintaining high women participation rate and at the same time average or high fertility rate.(I will consider average fertility rate for big or wealthy countries as win since it's much harder to do it in those countries due to side effects of higher education for women and motivation to work and... )


Feminism ?
I don't think people around the world would consider these countries as defender of women rights :

Indonesia, Qatar, Azerbaijan, China , Kazakhstan, Peru, Vietnam, Cameroon, Ethiopia and Kenya. 10 out of 14 (which is wrong point view since women also have the right to earn money and influence their societies so it become a better place for everybody )


Muslim countries
Indonesia (biggest one here 277 million population), Qatar, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan.4 out of 14


Capitalism ?
US, Norway, Qatar, Australia and Netherlands. 4 out of 14 belong to western camp


Biggest Economies
We see both China and United States in this list and these countries are second and first biggest economies.it's not based on luck or chance there must be some kind of reasoning behind it

China has been following one child policy for years and recently they changed it so their fertility rate is rising.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Her reported answer to prophet Musa (a.s.) suggests that customs in Midian used to be similar in this regard.

The younger sister said: "Our father is an old man; his health is too poor for him to go outdoors for pasturing sheep."

have the other people from kanaan ever wondered why the girls were taking care of the herd? no
the sisters look at the clothes of the mosses and said he is probably one of the Egyptian highborn , they only knew the degenerate pharoah tradition that only want women as servants to take care of their needs, not heard or have any power , they are not aware of our tradition that are held by prophet of God . it take ages to explain our tradition for him , we are taking care of the herd all day and we are tired . let somebody else explain our tradition to him .

the egyptian were a little backward on these matters.

Moses married the Midianite's daughter and looked after the old man's animals for ten long years.

https://www.alim.org/history/prophet-stories/17/1/

didn't mosses wanted the younger daughter but he married him the older one without showing him the girl at the ceremony ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Her reported answer to prophet Musa (a.s.) suggests that customs in Midian used to be similar in this regard.

The younger sister said: "Our father is an old man; his health is too poor for him to go outdoors for pasturing sheep."

Story of Prophet Musa (AS) | Alim.org

Stories of Prophet Musa (AS) in Islamic history

www.alim.org

In other terms it was something which resulted from particular circumstances affecting a specific family, rather than a basic norm.



Moses married the Midianite's daughter and looked after the old man's animals for ten long years.

https://www.alim.org/history/prophet-stories/17/1/



Upper caste Mesopotamian females. Perhaps that's one of the reasons they were observing hejab, they might have tended to dwell in crowded places more often and/or for longer durations. The majority of professions exercised by females in Mesopotamia could be performed from within homes.

Other than that, with the exception of wealthy nobility and priestesses, females were subordinate to their fathers, husbands and later to their sons as well. They could not pursue their own path and had to be obedient to their close male relatives. Furthermore a Mesopotamian female was expected to marry, bear children and raise these while tending the house.

Marriage was arranged by the female's father and was akin to a business contract in which the desires of the wed couple played no role. The wife was considered the property of her husband and could be divorced by the latter with much greater ease than she herself could sue for divorce.

Women in Ancient Mesopotamia

The lives of women in ancient Mesopotamia cannot be characterized as easily as with other civilizations owing to the different cultures over time. Generally speaking, though, Mesopotamian women had...

www.worldhistory.org

 

[SalarHaqq]

have the other people from kanaan ever wondered why the girls were taking care of the herd? no

Is there a source for this suggestion?

the sisters look at the clothes of the mosses and said he is probably one of the Egyptian highborn , they only knew the degenerate pharoah tradition that only want women as servants to take care of their needs, not heard or have any power , they are not aware of our tradition that are held by prophet of God . it take ages to explain our tradition for him , we are taking care of the herd all day and we are tired . let somebody else explain our tradition to him .

the egyptian were a little backward on these matters.

These are the conditions under which prophet Musa (a.s.) is said to have performed his trip:

Moses left Egypt in a hurry without going to Pharaoh's palace or changing his clothes. Nor was he prepared for traveling. He did not have a beast of burden upon which to ride, and he was not in a caravan. Instead, he left as soon as the believer came and warned him of Pharaoh's plans.

He traveled in the direction of the country of Midian, which was the nearest inhabited land between Syria and Egypt. His only companion in this hot desert was Allah, and his only provision was piety. There was not a single root to pick to lessen his hunger. The hot sand burned the soles of his feet. However, fearing pursuit by Pharaoh's men, he forced himself to continue on.

Chances are his clothes would not have been in the best of conditions.

Not sure I fully understand the rest of the response to be honest. But it appears to be largely speculative in nature.

As for prophetic traditions, is there a reference in the Holy Qur'an enjoining generalized female employment in crowded, urbanized settings densely populated by non-mahram males?

As per prevailing scholarly consensus, Islam does not forbid women to work including outside their homes, however such an activity is conditioned upon a number of regulations relative to social interaction. As an immediate consequence, the kind of generalized female employment advocated by present day liberals and capitalists was not practiced in traditional Islamic society, since it would have (and will) ran counter to Islamic norms of public decency and Islamic definition of gender roles.

Indeed, Islamic regulations for female work are often cited as (example taken from a scholar's response):

• A woman should wear hijab and cover herself with loose clothing.
• A woman should not be a source of temptation while going out to work, nor should she mingle with men lawful for her to marry.
• A woman should be engaged in a kind of work that suits her physiological nature, and should get the permission of her legal guardian or husband to work outside the home.
• A woman should make sure that her work would not result in any violation of the rights of her husband or children if she is married.

https://aboutislam.net/counseling/a...what-are-the-conditions-of-marriage-in-islam/

Elsewhere you seemed to be advocating a lifting of the Islamic dress code for females if I'm not mistaken. Based on that, the first condition for female work would not be met. As it happens, those who promote generalized female employment also tend to support dress code liberalization. Combination of these two demands however would not be conforming to Islamic tradition.

Second cited regulation: females should not mingle with non-mahram males while working outside their homes. In today's urbanized and densely populated environment, this is impossible to guarantee in practice.

Third regulation: females ought to be authorized by their fathers or husbands to work outside their homes. For sure this will prevent the type of outcome capitalist elites as well as their liberal and feminist footmen would like to witness.

Women in Ancient Mesopotamia

The lives of women in ancient Mesopotamia cannot be characterized as easily as with other civilizations owing to the different cultures over time. Generally speaking, though, Mesopotamian women had...

www.worldhistory.org

...is what my response was largely relying upon. Mesopotamia was a classic patriarchal civilization.

 

[Hack-Hook]

...is what my was largely reply upon. Mesopotamia was a classic patriarchal civilization.

patriarchal to some extent , but women had the right to their property , business and ... nobody could stop them from working outside.

Indeed, Islamic regulations for female work are often cited as (example taken from a scholar's response):

• A woman should wear hijab and cover herself with loose clothing.
• A woman should not be a source of temptation while going out to work, nor should she mingle with men lawful for her to marry.
• A woman should be engaged in a kind of work that suits her physiological nature, and should get the permission of her legal guardian or husband to work outside the home.
• A woman should make sure that her work would not result in any violation of the rights of her husband or children if she is married.

based on what are those in quran or some cleric decided it should be so

What Are the Conditions of Marriage in Islam? | About Islam

The conditions of marriage are: 1- The consent of the guardian of the woman; 2- presence of witnesses, 3- offering and acceptance; and 4; mahr (dower).

aboutislam.net

and your link is condition of marriage not work out side , and they even got that wrong as the most important condition of marriage is consent of both man and women and your scholars failed to mention that

 

[SalarHaqq]

Out of these 14 successful countries in regards to both maintaining high women participation rate and at the same time average or high fertility rate.(I will consider average fertility rate for big or wealthy countries as win since it's much harder to do it in those countries due to side effects of higher education for women and motivation to work and... )


Feminism ?
I don't think people around the world would consider these countries as defender of women rights :

Indonesia, Qatar, Azerbaijan, China , Kazakhstan, Peru, Vietnam, Cameroon, Ethiopia and Kenya. 10 out of 14 (which is wrong point view since women also have the right to earn money and influence their societies so it become a better place for everybody )


Muslim countries
Indonesia (biggest one here 277 million population), Qatar, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan.4 out of 14


Capitalism ?
US, Norway, Qatar, Australia and Netherlands. 4 out of 14 belong to western camp


Biggest Economies
We see both China and United States in this list and these countries are second and first biggest economies.it's not based on luck or chance there must be some kind of reasoning behind it

China has been following one child policy for years and recently they changed it so their fertility rate is rising.

The issue is that fertility rate is affected by many other factors. Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest fertility rates in the world, hence why countries such as Cameroon, Ethiopia and Kenya appear in your list.

However, as these societies undergo the same so-called modernization processes which Iran went through, their fertility rates are bound to decline gradually. It's simply that the process has only just begun in that part of the world, as opposed to Iran. And that norms relative to gender roles and public modesty are different in the Christian-majority countries you cited.

Right now Iran's demographic indicators are catastrophically lethargic. The figure given in the document is not accurate by the way: Iran's fertility rate dropped below the threshold of 2,1 required for generational replacement several years ago.

So if Iranian females are put to work on a grand scale, it will only compound the problem. Redressing the fertility rate will become more hopeless and unrealistic a task than it already is.

Also for your information, China's fertility rate is not rising. As we speak, China is actually undergoing one of the most acute demographic crises in its entire history. Situation's so dire that in 2022, the country's population fell in absolute numbers. This should be the case of Iran in less than ten years from now as well, if an urgent fix is not found and effectively implemented to reverse the demographic slump (I'm not sure as to whether the window of opportunity is still open at all).

Western-appeasing liberals (reformists, moderates) have been actively promoting this trend, and today they are trying their best to prevent the government from countering it. As I've underscored time and again on here, this is one of the worst existential threats facing the Iranian civilization.

China Is Dying Out | by Yi Fuxian - Project Syndicate

Yi Fuxian foresees a humanitarian crisis by mid-century, owing to low fertility and rapid population aging.

www.project-syndicate.org

 

[SalarHaqq]

patriarchal to some extent , but women had the right to their property , business and ... nobody could stop them from working outside.

Higher caste females, not the broad masses. Females pertaining to the latter group i.e. the great majority, could definitely be stopped by their fathers, their husbands and their sons, to whom they were subordinate and whom they had to obey, as stated in the article (they could not follow their own path is the precise terminology used). This corresponds to classic patriarchy.

based on what are those in quran or some cleric decided it should be so

Based on the methodology that applies in Islamic tradition.

The offered explanation enjoys broad scholarly consensus, it is therefore not merely the opinion of some random 'alim.

and your link is condition of marriage not work out side , and they even got that wrong as the most important condition of marriage is consent of both man and women and your scholars failed to mention that

These regulations relate to female work outside home, not to marriage. It is explicitly mentioned in the text, the whole page being in fact about Islamic rules on female work. Marriage is addressed further down on the webpage. This is a screen shot from the top of the page:

The scholar in question is Dr. Abdel-Fattah Idrees, Professor of Comparative Jurisprudence at Al-Azhar University of Cairo, considered one of the most authoritative sources of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence.

Shia Islamic authorities would offer a similar response on the topic.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Sources: World Bank(female participation), UN(fertility rate), Google(median age), IMF (GDP), Mostly UN data (population)

As you may see there are countries which less or more wealthier, younger or older and having less or more population and all of these countries doing better job in comparison with Iran.

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Other part would be quality of the work that have been done by women which it also could be evaluated many factors such as combination of other indicators like publication of scientific papers, innovations and etc by women.

 

[SalarHaqq]

View attachment 925401
Sources: World Bank(female participation), UN(fertility rate), Google(median age), IMF (GDP), Mostly UN data (population)

As you may see there are countries which less or more wealthier, younger or older and having less or more population and all of these countries doing better job in comparison with Iran.

Don't know why a large female workforce would necessarily have to be considered as preferable over a limited one. It wouldn't be consistent with tradition nor, in practice, with Islamic rules considering the structure of contemporary society. It would leave women with less time to tend their children and homes.

Moreover - and this should be of relevance to less religious people as well, Iran is suffering from an demographic downturn so intense that it represents an existential threat to the Iranian nation. And generalized female labor could only worsen the problem.

Figures from other countries do not contradict this reality. Some nations simply have a more dynamic demography to boot. All it means is that if female participation in the labor market was lower in those countries, then other things being equal their fertility rate would've been higher still, compared to its present level.

As said fertility is affected by a multiplicity of factors, not just by the percentage of females working. But once it drops below generational replacement limit as is the case of Iran, the concerned nation will be facing an huge and urgent challenge. At that point you better not compound the dilemma by sending females to work.

In line with this I must repeat: the figure for Iran in that chart is incorrect. Reality is that Iran's fertility rate in 2021 stood at a flimsy 1,71. Reminder: replacement threshold is 2,1 at minimum. The Supreme Leader keeps warning and warning about the issue.

Here's a relevant source:

Khamenei warns Iranians of danger in declining birth rate

Iran’s Supreme Leader has encouraged officials to continue the work of increasing the birth rate, but that is a challenge even in economically prosperous countries.

www.al-monitor.com

Demographic ageing brings with it a whole slew of economic calamities of its own.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Don't know why a large female workforce would necessarily have to be considered as preferable over a limited one. It wouldn't be consistent with tradition nor, in practice, with Islamic rules considering the structure of contemporary society. It would leave women with less time to tend their children and homes.

Moreover - and this should be of relevance to less religious people as well, Iran is suffering from an demographic downturn so intense that it represents an existential threat to the Iranian nation. And generalized female labor could only worsen the problem.

Figures from other countries do not contradict this reality. Some nations simply have a more dynamic demography to boot. All it means is that if female participation in the labor market was lower in those countries, then other things being equal their fertility rate would've been higher still, compared to its present level.

As said fertility is affected by a multiplicity of factors, not just by the percentage of females working. But once it drops below generational replacement limit as is the case of Iran, the concerned nation will be facing an huge and urgent challenge. At that point you better not compound the dilemma by sending females to work.

In line with this I must repeat: the figure for Iran in that chart is incorrect. Reality is that Iran's fertility rate in 2021 stood at a flimsy 1,71. Reminder: replacement threshold is 2,1 at minimum. The Supreme Leader keeps warning and warning about the issue.

Here's a relevant source:

Khamenei warns Iranians of danger in declining birth rate

Iran’s Supreme Leader has encouraged officials to continue the work of increasing the birth rate, but that is a challenge even in economically prosperous countries.

www.al-monitor.com

Demographic ageing brings with it a whole slew of economic calamities of its own.

Do you believe in collective intelligence ?

 

[glablo]

Don't know why a large female workforce would necessarily have to be considered as preferable over a limited one. It wouldn't be consistent with tradition nor, in practice, with Islamic rules considering the structure of contemporary society. It would leave women with less time to tend their children and homes.

Moreover - and this should be of relevance to less religious people as well, Iran is suffering from an demographic downturn so intense that it represents an existential threat to the Iranian nation. And generalized female labor could only worsen the problem.

Figures from other countries do not contradict this reality. Some nations simply have a more dynamic demography to boot. All it means is that if female participation in the labor market was lower in those countries, then other things being equal their fertility rate would've been higher still, compared to its present level.

As said fertility is affected by a multiplicity of factors, not just by the percentage of females working. But once it drops below generational replacement limit as is the case of Iran, the concerned nation will be facing an huge and urgent challenge. At that point you better not compound the dilemma by sending females to work.

In line with this I must repeat: the figure for Iran in that chart is incorrect. Reality is that Iran's fertility rate in 2021 stood at a flimsy 1,71. Reminder: replacement threshold is 2,1 at minimum. The Supreme Leader keeps warning and warning about the issue.

Here's a relevant source:

Khamenei warns Iranians of danger in declining birth rate

Iran’s Supreme Leader has encouraged officials to continue the work of increasing the birth rate, but that is a challenge even in economically prosperous countries.

www.al-monitor.com

Demographic ageing brings with it a whole slew of economic calamities of its own.

These figures are debatable.
The Iranian Statistical Center has stopped officially publishing birth rates and births for several years now, for reasons that have not been made clear.
Only the Tehran Times reports figures from an unknown source.
The reliability of these figures is questionable, as they somehow coincide exactly with the figures that the Iranian Statistical Center has published in the past as estimates for the future, at least until around 2020-2021.
All reports in the Western and Arab media either cite this Tehran Times report or use figures of unknown origin.
No other Iranian media reports any official figures on Iran's fertility rate.

 

[SalarHaqq]

These figures are debatable.
The Iranian Statistical Center has stopped officially publishing birth rates and births for several years now, for reasons that have not been made clear.
Only the Tehran Times reports figures from an unknown source.
The reliability of these figures is questionable, as they somehow coincide exactly with the figures that the Iranian Statistical Center has published in the past as estimates for the future, at least until around 2020-2021.
All reports in the Western and Arab media either cite this Tehran Times report or use figures of unknown origin.
No other Iranian media reports any official figures on Iran's fertility rate.

No, the Statistical Center of Iran (SCI) never stopped publishing demographic data, where's this incorrect claim stemming from?

An academic research paper on the fertility of females in Iran was released in 1400 (2021-2022) containing data for multiple years up until 1399. The article can be accessed at the SCI's website under following link:

https://www.amar.org.ir/Portals/0/News/1400/fertility.fathi2.pdf?ver=X8aZNaJfWMzTbSe7mlVRTw==

The 1,71 figure for 1399 cited by Tehran Times, is clearly visible in the chart on page 7 of the document.

Tehran Times did not quote an unknown source but explicitly referenced it as the Statistical Center of Iran. Which, as we just evidenced above, provided the figure in question based on concrete data. It is not an estimate for the future but relates to a revolved year.

What's more, the SCI has kept furnishing data after that report as well. For instance, the following map of Iran published in 1401 shows detailed fertility rates for every province as well as the national average for 1400, which stood at a catastrophic 1,74.

The disastrous demographic recession gripping Iran is an unquestionable fact.

Iranians refusing to pay attention to this phenomenon, which happens to be directly threatening the survival of Iran as a distinct nation and is of alarming urgence, shouldn't be considering themselves as patriotic.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Do you believe in collective intelligence ?

No, the Statistical Center of Iran (SCI) never stopped publishing demographic data, where's this incorrect claim stemming from?

An academic research paper on the fertility of females in Iran was released in 1400 (2021-2022) containing data for multiple years up until 1399. The article can be accessed at the SCI's website under following link:

https://www.amar.org.ir/Portals/0/News/1400/fertility.fathi2.pdf?ver=X8aZNaJfWMzTbSe7mlVRTw==

The 1,71 figure for 1399 cited by Tehran Times, is clearly visible in the chart on page 7 of the document.

View attachment 925636

Tehran Times did not quote an unknown source but explicitly referenced it as the Statistical Center of Iran. Which, as we just evidenced above, provided the figure in question based on concrete data. It is not an estimate for the future but relates to a revolved year.

What's more, the SCI has kept furnishing data after that report as well. For instance, the following map of Iran published in 1401 shows detailed fertility rates for every province as well as the national average for 1400, which stood at a catastrophic 1,74.

The disastrous demographic recession gripping Iran is an unquestionable fact.

Iranians refusing to pay attention to this phenomenon, which happens to be directly threatening the survival of Iran as a distinct nation and is of alarming urgence, shouldn't be considering themselves as patriotic.

Another classic salar.
I will answer it for you (again)

Yes, I'm a believer.

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I've posted good examples of both healthy female participation and better than average fertility rates.Answers for your problems lies somewhere else find and fix those issues.

Evil capitalists and westerners ?
China, Vietnam, North Korea and ... have higher female participation rates.

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Not believer ?

Logic then

The global labor force participation rate for women is just over 50% compared to 80% for men.

You need more than 3 times of current women participation in order to reach world's average.

but it's much easier to do the planing for more babies in families (10-20 percent increase will solve all of the problems )

In order to reach 50 female participation from current 14 you need to shake hell and heaven but 10% more birthrates would be an easy job.

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I'm not a betting guy and I will bet you some of these "religious guys" and decision makers inside Iran are in payroll line of foreign countries.