Iranian Diaspora

[aryobarzan]

At this sort of game, the zionists will prove more clever: they used Trump to advance their agenda against Iran, and when they got what they could out of him, dumped him like a piece of trash; now, comfortably, they'll have his successor reverse "anti-globalist" actions taken by him.

Well said "SalarHaqq". straight to the point.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Fair enough.
The minimum wage in Iran is 2,610,427 Tomans and the minimum wage in Germany is 1,584 Euros.

Now let's talk about purchase power parity in Berlin and Tehran. Let's convert the minimum wage in each country to the equal amount of the same good in each country:

Tehran: 150 kilograms of apples
Berlin: 633 kilograms of apples

Tehran: 290 liters of milk
Berlin: 1,667 liters of milk

Tehran: 130 kilograms of rice
Berlin: 792 kilograms of rice

Tehran: 124 dozens of eggs
Berlin: 723 dozens of eggs

Tehran: 21 kilograms of beef round
Berlin: 136 kilograms of beef round

Tehran: 1,740 liters of gasoline
Berlin: 1,150 liters of gasoline

Tehran: You can't find anything inside Tehran with the minimum salary
Berlin: Housing accounts for about 60% of the minimum salary

Do you see where I'm going or do I need to continue? Because it takes time to do the calculations, but I think you can clearly see where I'm going.

It seems to me that the purchase power of someone with the minimum wage in Berlin is nearly 5 times higher than the same person with the minimum wage in Tehran.

* And interestingly, the minimum wage was introduced only five years ago in Germany, to compensate for ever-increasing downwards pressures on net incomes.

* Actually the minimum wage in Germany is given per hour and currently stands at 9.35 Euros. Meaning that only those who work 8 hours per day in a full time job, are earning 1584 Euro. This doesn't include employees with nothing but a part time job, who earn less. So some Germans or residents of Germany every month will have less than 1584 Euros at their disposal.

* There is a thing called mini-jobs in Germany, which are paid no more than 450 Euros per month (for 64 hours of work). 6 million out of Germany's active population of 44 million (i. e. over 13.5%) work in mini-jobs (although some of them have one or more additional jobs).

* Other than income tax, various social welfare contributions (health care insurance + unemployment insurance + nursing insurance + pension scheme + church tax) have to be substracted from the salary. For people earning the minimum wage, these contributions amount in total to about 25% of the gross income. Leaving no more than some 1100 Euros of net wage.

So in fact, the minimum wage for full time employees in Germany earns them the equivalent of some 475 apples, 1250 liters of milk, 102 kg of beef round etc.

I believe taxes in Iran are lower, which reduces the gap.

* Productivity of labor is higher in Germany. And not just due to a greater degree of mechanization, but also because of superior intensity and speed of the work accomplished by employees.

An 8 hour workday in Iran should be equivalent to a 6 hour one (or less) in Germany. Meaning that the workday for Iranians will be less stressful (although the traffic to and from work is more stressful in Tehran, but not so much elsewhere in Iran).

* The fact that 70% of Iranians own their flats or houses, while this figure amounts to only 49% in Germany needs to be taken into account. Especially since the rent, for those earning the minimum wage in Germany, can take up to 40% of incomes or more.

This again considerably reduces the purchasing power gap for a number of people in Germany and Iran.

* Price gaps between cheaper groceries / food markets and average ones, are greater in Iran compared to Germany (in part because of the weakness of the rial and subsequent costliness of imports, but there are other reasons).

I would guess that in low income neighborhoods in Iran, local markets offer notably cheaper prices for basic consumer goods than Digikala or Okala, which mostly cater to the middle- and upper middle class.

* Traditional forms of solidarity such as support from relatives, which are significantly more prevalent in Iran compared to Germany, must be factored in.

* When it comes to food, in Iran there is greater availability of charity and donations, including in the religious framework. In lranian cities, one will more often find 'nazri' food offered to people free of charge and so on.

* Among large cities of Germany, Berlin is practically the cheapest, while Tehran is the most expensive of Iranian cities. Better compare with Stuttgart or better yet Munich.

In all, it would therefore be fair to revise the assumption that purchasing power is five times superior for the lower income layers in Germany. It is maybe more like twice or thrice as much.

However as per IMF statistics, Germany's GDP PPP for 2020 is also about four and a half times greater than Iran's (4.454 trillion USD vs 1.006 trillion USD), while the populations of the two countries are nearly equal. Let's not even mention the difference in non-PPP GDP. So any purchasing power disparity would actually be perfectly normal. We're comparing one of the wealthiest economies on earth with a developing country.

Hence I would say that Raghfarm007's initial point stands, and I will add a couple of aspects to it in conclusion:

1) It is ludicrous for Iranians to expect similar incomes as those paid to employees in places like Germany or Sweden.

Iranians should make sensible comparisons, and compare with other developing nations. They should also compare with the situation prior to the Islamic Revolution. From both these perspectives, average living standards of Iranians took great strides over the past four decades. Including in international comparison, where Iran fares well. Iranians are better off than most other nationals of the world.

Here some objective, informed analyses of the subject (including a thorough debunking of the BBC- / Manoto-peddled, crazy myth that living standards used to be "higher" before 1979):

A note on measuring living standards

A few weeks ago, in this blog and in opinion pieces (here, here and here), I argued that during the three decades since the end of the war with Iraq (1988), Iran’s economic growth exceeded th…

djavadsalehi.com

Was the Living Standard of Iranians Higher Before the Revolution?

Why the claim that the average standard of living has fallen since the revolution is false.

djavadsalehi.com

The Islamic Revolution at 40 | by Djavad Salehi-Isfahani - Project Syndicate

Djavad Salehi-Isfahani argues that the material living standards of ordinary Iranians have improved since 1979.

www.project-syndicate.org

2) Brainwashed by the enemy's Persian language anti-Iran media, some Iranians adopt an outlandish and profoundly baseless, binary view of the matter, seriously imagining that living conditions in Iran are "hellish", in contrast to the entire rest of the world and in particular to a completely idealized west, which in their minds are assimilated to some sort of a "paradise", and where the ruling class supposedly "cares" about the popular masses.

The false notion that "every" Iranian (or immigrant, for that matter) who moved to the west has achieved tremendous social-economic success, is a corrolary of that inane belief.

Interestingly, Manoto TV had no choice but to shoot themselves in the foot when trying to produce a report - while staying more or less credible, about "how succesful" the average Iranian becomes when emigrating to the west (had they focused on a handful of millionaire Iranians, then even their braindead viewership would have smelled the coffee). Apparently, these were the best examples they could come up with:

3) Along with these propagandistic lies and manipulations, the enemy has cultivated in the minds of certain Iranians a dubious habit of considering material wealth and consumerism as more urgent needs than religion, motherland, family, compassion, solidarity with the weak and ethical values in general.

Hence why some Iranians tend to make emigration to a wealthy country their foremost goal in life, paired with disdain for their own nation, its history and culture, as well as blind and uninformed subjugation to the mirage of so-called western "superiority".

When in fact, the noble and right thing to do, would be to cherish their incomparably rich civilizational heritage and endeavor, alongside the Islamic Republic, to further improve not just their living conditions, but also their spiritual and human development, and thereby continue on the glorious and succesful path of 1979.


____

Well said "SalarHaqq". straight to the point.

Mokhlese agha Aryobarzan hastim.

 

[SalarHaqq]

One of those tremendous fiery speeches we know and appreciate Dr. Abbasi for, touching in part on the subject discussed here.

Isn't it significant that many of the authentic geniuses - both as far as their scientific minds and their organizational project management skills are concerned, who contributed the most to their motherland Iran, had in fact never studied at any foreign university, while some of them were even autodidactes! Glorious names such as shahid Tehrani Moghaddam come to mind.

Another important aspect highlighted by Dr. Abbasi here, are the obvious security risks stemming from the fact that some 4000 children of government and state officials reside outside of Iran's borders... Naturally, hostile intelligence agencies are monitoring them and are documenting any compromising activity they might ever indulge in, so as to blackmail them into obtaining and handing over sensitive information from back home.

As Dr. Abbasi rightly demands, a law should be passed prohibiting people whose offspring study or live abroad from running for office in Iran. Thank God the new majority in Majles seems to have begun deliberations on something along those lines.

 

[WudangMaster]

 

[Arian]

* And interestingly, the minimum wage was introduced only five years ago in Germany, to compensate for ever-increasing downwards pressures on net incomes.

And? I don't see your point.

* Actually the minimum wage in Germany is given per hour and stands currently at 9.35 Euros. Meaning that only those who work 8 hours per day in a full time job, earn 1584 Euro. This doesn't include people with only a part time job, who earn less. So some will have less than that 1584 Euros at their disposal.

The minimum wage in all countries is calculated per hour including in Iran.
There are millions of people that work more than 44 hours per week in Iran and are paid less than the minimum wage. Open job finding websites in Iran and you will see that a lot of positions are offering 10,000,000 IRR to 25,000,000 IRR for a full-time job, which is below the minimum wage.

There are jobs in Iran where the worker works for 6 days per week, for 9 hours a day. There are millions of them actually. (which is against the law in Iran, but they still exist)

I can find you concrete examples if you wish.

And I am ignoring the fact that the official unemployment rate in Iran in 2020 is twice higher than in Germany.

* There is a thing called mini-jobs in Germany, which are paid no more than 450 Euros per month (for 64 hours of work). 6 million out of Germany's active population of 44 million (i. e. over 13.5%) work in mini-jobs (although some of them have one or more additional jobs).

Yes, that's true. But similar situation exists everywhere, including Iran.
How many people do you think work in internet taxis like Snapp and Tap30 as their second job?

* Other than income tax, various social welfare contributions (health care insurance + unemployment insurance + nursing insurance + pension scheme + church tax) have to be substracted from the salary. For people earning the minimum wage, these contributions amount in total to about 25% of the gross income. Leaving no more than some 1100 Euros of net wage.

First of all, you don't have to pay the church tax if you are not a Christian. It is not compulsory. And it is transparent and insignificant, unlike Iran where people continuously claim that Mullahs are stealing their money due to the lack of transparency.

Secondly, if you are married or you have children, that will affect your net income.

Actually, I used a calculator and the exact number ranges from 1177.21 Euros to 1271.56 Euros. But you can continue with your 1,100 Euros.

So in fact, the minimum wage for full time employees in Germany earns them the equivalent of some 475 apples, 1250 liters of milk, 102 kg of beef round etc.

Still several times more than what Iranians can purchase, particularly when it comes to red meat (I didn't check your numbers, but I trust you).

I believe taxes in Iran are lower, which reduces the gap.

I didn't reduce tax from the Iranian net salary (only 7% for compulsory social security). So, no. It does not.

* Productivity of labor is higher in Germany. And not just due to a greater degree of mechanization, but also because of superior intensity and speed of the work accomplished by employees.

So you're saying that the inefficiency of Iranians is actually a good thing? Plus, that's not something that can be measured. So, it's irrelevant to our calculations.

An 8 hour workday in Iran should be equivalent to a 6 hour one (or less) in Germany. Meaning that for Iranians, it is less stressful in this respect (although the traffic to and from work is more stressful in Tehran, but not so much elsewhere in Iran).

Millions of people from cities near Tehran, like Karaj, Pardis, even as far as some places close to Qazvin, spend 3 hours or even more in traffic to go back and forth between their home and their workplace.

* The fact that 70% of Iranians own their flats or houses, while this figure amounts to only 49% in Germany needs to be taken into account. Especially since the rent, for those earning the minimum wage in Germany, can take up to 40% of incomes.

Actually the figure for Iran is 64.4% which is obviously lower in urban areas like Tehran, Isfahan, etc. The same figure in Tehran is 48%. While Germany is a federal system, all cities and provinces in Iran follow the same laws. Meaning that people in Tehran or other big cities are basically screwed.

This again considerably reduces the purchasing power gap for a number of people in Germany and Iran.

Household prices account for 60% of the minimum wage in Berlin. You said it accounted for 40% of the minimum income in Germany. I trust you on this. Since this advantage applies only to 20% of the Iranian population, we can recalculate the numbers and you will see that the purchase power parity of Germans still remain more than twice higher.

* Price gaps between products found at cheap vs average groceries and food markets is greater in Iran compared to Germany (in part because of the weakness of the rial and subsequent costliness of imports, but there are other reasons).

True, but we are not talking about reasons, we are talking about facts now. The issue of the management incompetency of the IR is a whole other discussion.

I would guess that in low income neighborhoods in Iran, local markets offer notably cheaper prices for basic consumer goods than Digikala or Okala, which are mostly used by the middle- to upper middle class.

We were talking about the middle class in Iran. People in low income neighborhoods in Iran do not live "in houses that look like palaces compared to Germany". They live in neighborhoods that many of them remind you of the Slumdog Millionaire movie. You wouldn't say someone who lives in Shush or Molavi lives in a palace compared to Germans. Would you?

Also, we were not talking about luxury super markets in Tehran that the prices can be sometimes even multiple times higher than what I accounted for. And while your objection can apply to vegetables, fruits or eggs, it does not apply to meat or milk as the prices for those goods is nearly identical all over Iran.

* Traditional forms of solidarity such as support from relatives, which are significantly more prevalent in Iran compared to Germany, must be factored in.

This is fading extremely fast in the middle class in Iran, particularly in urban areas. Germans also have family values, you know. Particularly families with Christian values. It's not like it doesn't exist in Germany at all.

* When it comes to food, in Iran there is greater availability of charity and donations, including in the religious framework. In lranian cities, one will more often find 'nazri' food offered to people free of charge and so on.

Reduce the cost of those cheap meals that they offer in Ashura, Tasua and Arbaeen from the overall cost of living. It's 11 days (at most) in a year.

* Among large cities of Germany, Berlin is among the cheapest, while Tehran is the most expensive of Iranian cities. Better compare with Stuttgart or Munich.

Sure. We will do a recalculation soon. Let's take all factors in first so you won't object to it later.

In all, it would therefore be fair to revise the assumption that purchasing power is five times superior for the lower income groups in Germany. It is maybe more like twice or thrice as much.

Fair enough. So you agree that it's still several times higher. Don't you?

However as per IMF statistics, Germany's GDP PPP for 2020 is also about four and a half times greater than Iran's (4.454 trillion USD vs 1.006 trillion USD). Let's not even mention the difference in non-PPP GDP. So any purchasing power disparity would actually be perfectly normal. We're comparing one of the wealthiest economies on earth with a developing country.

You do realize that Iran, inter alia, sits on the world's third largest oil reserves, second largest natural gas reserves, largest helium reserves and it enjoyed a young population for nearly half a century. Right? It's not like Iran does not have the resources to succeed.

Hence I would say that raghfarm007's initial point stands,

Yes, keep convincing yourself that Iranians live in palaces compared to Germans while if you exclude some well-developed parts of Tehran, Karaj, Isfahan, Tabriz, Shiraz, etc. millions of Iranians live in houses that look like from World War II movies. Yesterday was the anniversary of the Bam Earthquake. Go see where people lived and why over 26,000 people died in an earthquake that wasn't even strong to begin with. What is the German equivalent of Zahedan, I wonder?

 

[Raghfarm007]

Aria.... I asked you a few quetions, but you ignored them...

So let me make a few preditions about you based on my exerianes.....

You are probably living in Germany for less than 5 years.
Your German is probably not strong enough to get an office job.
You probably came over as a refugee.
You probably have not travelled through Germany and almost certainly never taken a holiday in other European countries.
You probably have a low paied job/unemployed.

You know....I have lived in England, Ireland, the USA, and now for 9 month in Germany.....and every Iranian I ever met that had good things to say about the west fell in the above categories...

It´s ok..... wait until you get the life experiances..... you too will realise why life in Iran is better.....I jut hoe you can still return back when you open your eyes.

 

[Arian]

Aria.... I asked you a few quetions, but you ignored them...

So let me make a few preditions about you based on my exerianes.....

You are probably living in Germany for less than 5 years.
Your German is probably not strong enough to get an office job.
You probably came over as a refugee.
You probably have not travelled through Germany and almost certainly never taken a holiday in other European countries.
You probably have a low paied job/unemployed.

You know....I have lived in England, Ireland, the USA, and now for 9 month in Germany.....and every Iranian I ever met that had good things to say about the west fell in the above categories...

It´s ok..... wait until you get the life experiances..... you too will realise why life in Iran is better.....I jut hoe you can still return back when you open your eyes.

It's Arian. And your questions were provocative and not worthy of my attention. I don't answer cheap guys with superiority complex.

I think you came to Europe as a refugee as your writing in Persian sounds like someone that is not from Iran actually, or has a very poor command of Persian at least. I'm a student with an education that far exceeds your level of intelligence clearly. I am not eligible for a full-time job as a student, and I'm not really interested in one as I am supported by my family in Iran for the most part.

You're probably some Afghan refugee that came to Iran but then moved to Europe out of desperation and now because European girls rejected you, you have developed some sort of superiority complex that manifests itself by trying to overcompensate and show off about things that exist only in your imagination. That's pretty common among immigrants like your type actually.

If life in Iran is better and people live in palaces compared to one of the most developed countries in Europe, why the hell don't you return to Iran? At least I will return to Iran and I speak both English and Persian better than you. Belarus? Seriously? lol

 

[Raghfarm007]

LOL....... I WAS 100% ACCURATE ABOUT YOU......

AMAZING NO?

Here is another prediction about you.... you live in a sh!itty shared home, where you have to share the kitchen, toilet and bathroom, and have to pay extra to use washingmachine..... LOL

I predict that you dont know any Germans, and have never been to a German person´s house! LOL

AND YOU ARE THE ONE DEFENDIN THE GERMAN LIFE QUALITY? LOL

Also..... like I said tell me where you live and I´ll come see you... then you can see you are 100 incorrect about EVERYTHING you said!

LOL

 

[Arian]

LOL....... I WAS 100% ACCURATE ABOUT YOU......

AMAZING NO?

Here is another prediction about you.... you live in a sh!itty shared home, where you have to share the kitchen, toilet and bathroom, and have to pay extra to use washingmachine..... LOL

I predict that you dont know any Germans, and have never been to a German person´s house! LOL

AND YOU ARE THE ONE DEFENDIN THE GERMAN LIFE QUALITY? LOL

Also..... like I said tell me where you live and I´ll come see you... then you can see you are 100 incorrect about EVERYTHING you said!

LOL

You obviously have lost your sanity, but it's OK. A loser that says he loves Iran, but for some reason is staying in Belarus, one of the least developed countries in all of Europe instead of returning to Iran LOL

You didn't say why you're staying in Belarus if you love Iran so much. I am going to return to Iran, but it seems that you want to stay outside of Iran. I wonder why. Have years of rejection by almost everyone turned you into a masochist or what? The doors of Iran are open for you, go back home. LOL

Actually I live in a dorm. It's a single room. That's pretty normal for academic life, but I'm sure some Afghan refugee that can't speak neither Persian nor English without mistakes is not capable of understanding that.

 

[Arian]

LOL..... I thought your English was clearly better than mine.... so why cant you undrestad anything?!
Mybe it´s not your English that´s a problem.....maybe you´r not as intelligent as you think?!!!

I have already said I am currently living in Germany, and before that I lived in Ireland and England and the US..... this is why I said tell me where you live and I´ll come and see you....

But why are you chaning this toping to be about me?

Dont you think it´s amazing that EVERYTHING I predicted about you was correct?!!!

You are have just arrived in Germany, low income, not travelled around Germany, not travelled to any other European country, dont know any Germans, never been to a German person´s house.... and you are the one defending German... LOL.

Tell me this..... if you are Iranian.... where in Iran are you from?
You think I am Afghani? Well.... you sound like a Dahati to me....

You talk like "someone that has come from behind the mountains". You're clearly a false flagger, wasting my time.

I'm not really interested in meeting a pseudo-Taliban terrorist that says vaccination is for population control in person. Hack-Hook literally "rid be heykalet" over that idiotic statement.

And you still haven't said why you don't return to Iran. Probably because as I predicted correctly, you're an Afghan refugee without an Iranian passport. So you can't go to Iran in the first place.

 

[Arian]

Hack hook is another Geda Dahati like you.....I provide facts, you two talk crap because you have no real life experiances in the west... and have an inferiority complex.

I know you are too poor and pussy to tell me where you live.... but at least tell me what you study? A genioues like you must be studyig something really useful....LOL

experiances... LOL

Bad bakhti injast har ghorbatiyi mese to az har deh kooreyi eddea fahmidan peyda karde. Hamash taghsire internet hast

Az koskholi ke fekr mikone Omid Dana rast mige ke Iran boshghab parande dare dige che entezari mishe dasht?

Genioues! LOL

 

[Arian]

You say I am a false flagger wastig your time??

LOL...... WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT IS SO IMPORTANT?

If I am to believe you.... you are a nobody student stuck kin shared sh¡tty housing at Christmass time where everything is closed..... you dont knw anyone and cant speak any German, so you dont have anyone to spend your time with..... the only other thing you might spend your time is surfing the net for **** to play with yourself....

Still..... isnt it amazing how by just reading your retarded posts..... I got to guess everything about you correctl???? LOL


LOL.... the more you talk....the more info you are giving me....

with your level of knowedge....I predict that you dont go to a University....if you really are a student, you probably go to a local collage studying a pointless subject..... I bet you this is correct, just like all my other predictions....

And yet you can't go to Iran, because they don't give Afghan refugees Iranian passports... So sad...

 

[Raghfarm007]

LOL Khoshkele..... with your superiour English skills read what I said above..... this year alone I sent over €60,000 to Iran...... my permanent home is in Iran.....

But you wont dare tell me where you live, what you study, where in Iran you are from.... and make retrded assumptions about me....

What an internet tough guy you are

 

[Arian]

LOL Khoshkele..... with your superiour English skills read what I said above..... this year alone I sent over €60,000 to Iran...... my permanent home is in Iran.....

But you wont dare tell me where you live, what you study, where in Iran you are from.... and make retrded assumptions about me....

What an internet tough guy you are

And yet you can't go live in Iran because they don't give Afghan refugees Iranian passports.
Your next big claim is probably about how you and Sasha are besties in Belarus.

 

[Arian]

You are obviouesly a genioues..... dont undrestand German tax laws, and cearly dont undrestand Iranian laws neither...... cause you need to be an Iranian citizen to own land there......

I see you got no brains...But if you had some balls..... you would tell me where you live..... I´ll show you all my passports

You don't own lands in Iran because you're not an Iranian citizen. Duh!

I already told you I'm not interested in lunatics who believe vaccination is for population control. You're free to show us all your passports though. Who is stopping you?

Otherwise, just cut the crap. I am busy in other discussions on PDF now.