Iranian Chill Thread

[bozorgmehr]

Thank you.

For me, this is not a question of changing view points. Of course we change our views! We are not Mollah Nasreddin! It's about absolutism. It's about intolerance. It's about being judgmental of others. It doesn't matter what your exact ideological bent is. Everybody's got one of those! It's about how you treat others who don't share yours.

Yes we have been traumatized. We have suffered more than our fill. But at some point we have to decide whether we will forever be victims or live our lives on our own terms. We have to decide whether we have free will in this life, or if it's only a reflection of the will of others. And if the case is the former, we have to do what is right and not simply react to what others do or have done in the past. That's the only way to freedom.

 

[Abii]

Bozorgmehr, it's easy not to have any beliefs and go with the flow. That's what I told you 5 years ago. You confuse cowardliness with emotional stability. They're not the same.

Beliefs change, but one thing that will remain the same with people like me, Rmi, that wahabi Al Hasani, Haman, Surenas etc... is that our "red hot" streak, as you call it, will often get us partly or completely to where want to be (and I'm talking in real life, not some stupid internet forum). Your type will always sit on the sidelines taking orders from people with "red hot" character traits. At the end of the day, it's our type that become the leaders and "doers" in different parts of the societies that we live in.

Sorry dude, I'm not a coward like you are. I've been wrong countless times, but I will always go all out like a Guerrilla with a stick up his *** regardless of what my beliefs are at that particular stage of my life.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Welcome back.
I disagree with you. The point is that Iranians have these huge baggage of internal conflicts that makes them intolerant toward each other. Intolerance is minimum in liberals, and it is in the highest extent among religious people and former commies. Personally, I don't see anything negative about changing view points. it means that you have not still turned into a dogmatic person. specially if your changes is in the direction to reduce racism, ... in your behavior. About myself, I even had some few comments which was not appropriate about arabs, but, I later apologized Al-Hasani, and he did the same and we forget it and moved on. That's a good change indeed. About Azerbaijan and turks, there was minor conflicts when I joined the forum, but Iranian members, started a racist campaign, led by Surenas, against turks, which made me to be more harsh on Iranians. I can't stay neutral when I see your fellow friends insult my people on a daily basis. It is very simple.

I guess I'm slow tonight lol..

 

[rmi5]

@bozorgmehr , Again, I agree with Abii. It is always easy to sit quiet and do not talk and remain like a noble gas and do not express your true opinions, but at the end, you would achieve nothing. T-123456 has an interesting signature, it says: "To avoid criticism,say nothing,do nothing,be nothing!" The fact is that, I don't wanna be a nothing. If anyone has succeeded in his/her life, the main reason has been that they have the balls to speak what they want loudly, and openly pursue their goals. The sneaky, and sly seeming and ball-less behavior, leads one to nowhere.

Thanks my friend. Indeed, I am not Anti-Turk. My family has an apartment in Turkey which we visit almost every year.
I love Turkey because it reminds me of Iran, only Turkey is more free and liberal and respect your personal freedoms.
Im the last one to be anti-Turk and this "obsession" (as Abii calls it) did not start until recently when one of your compatriot started to disrespect Iran's territorial and national integrity when he talked about carving out "South Azerbaijan".
I only get defensive when someone does that.

Im not anti-Turk in the slightest.

Actions speak louder than empty words ...

 

[bozorgmehr]

Bozorgmehr, it's easy not to have any beliefs and go with the flow. That's what I told you 5 years ago. You confuse cowardliness with emotional stability. They're not the same.

Beliefs change, but one thing that will remain the same with people like me, Rmi, that wahabi Al Hasani, Haman, Surenas etc... is that our "red hot" streak, as you call it, will often get us partly or completely to where want to be (and I'm talking in real life, not some stupid internet forum). Your type will always sit on the sidelines taking orders from people with "red hot" character traits. At the end of the day, it's our type that become the leaders and "doers" in different parts of the societies that we live in.

Sorry dude, I'm not a coward like you are. I've been wrong countless times, but I will always go all out like a Guerrilla with a stick up his *** regardless of what my beliefs are at that particular stage of my life.

I know Abii jan.... say hello to your basiji buddies while you're at it. Because from where I stand you're not that different.

And they rape and kill and beat and steal.... because they 'know'. They have attained enlightenment and have seen the truth. That's why they can allow themselves to be bold... like you. But there are more common names for those people. They're usually called rapists, murderers and occasionally genocidal maniacs. And you know what? They usually don't have good endings. No good beginnings either. No good anything. Only misery, fear and loneliness...

As for a cowardly mouse like me, the only thing that I've learned is that I don't know anything. So I don't bother with strong beliefs. What's the point when you know it's subject to change any way?

 

[rmi5]

I know Abii jan.... say hello to your basiji buddies while you're at it. Because from where I stand you're not that different.

And they rape and kill and beat and steal.... because they 'know'. They have attained enlightenment and have seen the truth. That's why they can allow themselves to be bold... like you. But there are more common names for those people. They're usually called rapists, murderers and occasionally genocidal maniacs. And you know what? They usually don't have good endings. No good beginnings either. No good anything. Only misery, fear and loneliness...

As for a cowardly mouse like me, the only thing that I've learned is that I don't know anything. So I don't bother with strong beliefs. What's the point when you know it's subject to change any way?

Dude, the real world is different from the philosophy class. In the real world, you need to kick a thief's *** if he steals from your house instead of expressing your disagreements. About Basijis, they are bunch of simple mercenaries with no brains, but their masters exactly know what they are doing and pursue it with all of their power. Your logic is impaired here, that's the same mentality which brought 2-4 million people from Tehran to protest mullah election in the "Silence Protest". Do you think that mullahs give a damn about your silence?!!! no, they would laugh at you. If instead of all those silent people, there was 1/4 of this population chanting and acting in front of Khamenei's house in Pastor Street, or in front of national TV, and captured it, they would have been successful.

 

[bozorgmehr]

@bozorgmehr , Again, I agree with Abii. It is always easy to sit quiet and do not talk and remain like a noble gas and do not express your true opinions, but at the end, you would achieve nothing. T-123456 has an interesting signature, it says: "To avoid criticism,say nothing,do nothing,be nothing!" The fact is that, I don't wanna be a nothing. If anyone has succeeded in his/her life, the main reason has been that they have the balls to speak what they want loudly, and openly pursue their goals. The sneaky, and sly seeming and ball-less behavior, leads one to nowhere.

hmm... So our only options in life are either to be as loud (and necessarily empty) as a drum or '...say nothing, do nothing, be nothing...'! Do you see a trend here? Do you see how you go from one extreme to another? Most of life happens in that middle, neutral zone. The 2 extremes are only end points.

 

[rmi5]

hmm... So our only options in life are either to be as loud (and necessarily empty) as a drum or '...say nothing, do nothing, be nothing...'! Do you see a trend here? Do you see how you go from one extreme to another? Most of life happens in that middle, neutral zone. The 2 extremes are only end points.

were Gandhi, Jinah, Ataturk, Mosaddegh, Lincoln, Robespierre, ... empty drums? No, they were people with bright mentality and big balls to chant and pursue their goals.
The world works on a simple basis, you are either a wolf or a sheep. one can be a nice, gentle, ... sheep, but, at the end, it means getting slaughtered by wolves.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Dude, the real world is different from the philosophy class. In the real world, you need to kick a thief's *** if he steals from your house instead of expressing your disagreements. About Basijis, they are bunch of simple mercenaries with no brains, but their masters exactly know what they are doing and pursue it with all of their power. Your logic is impaired here, that's the same mentality which brought 2-4 million people from Tehran to protest mullah election in the "Silence Protest". Do you think that mullahs give a damn about your silence?!!! no, they would laugh at you. If instead of all those silent people, there was 1/4 of this population chanting and acting in front of Khamenei's house in Pastor Street, or in front of national TV, and captured it, they would have been successful.

So you don't need philosophy to live in the 'real' world? You just go on without thinking? And here was Abii boasting about his beliefs and you were agreeing with him! Would you kindly make up your mind?

I'm poking fun of you, of course. Because at the end of the day, basijis and mullahs are human too. They too have free will. But they choose to do what they do. And as a result, we are in the shape that we are in. Which you and Abii seem to be so upset about. So maybe if we all chose to think a little more, before doing a little more, we'd be all a little happier!

 

[rmi5]

So you don't need philosophy to live in the 'real' world? You just go on without thinking? And here was Abii boasting about his beliefs and you were agreeing with him! Would you kindly make up your mind?

I'm poking fun of you, of course. Because at the end of the day, basijis and mullahs are human too. They too have free will. But they choose to do what they do. And as a result, we are in the shape that we are in. Which you and Abii seem to be so upset about. So maybe if we all chose to think a little more, before doing a little more, we'd be all a little happier!

Which part of my post is hard to understand? thoughts only have value when they are implemented, otherwise they have no value and they are bunch of empty words. FYI, I started learning logic and philosophy from when I was 12-13 years old. obviously, one needs to have insights, and well thought opinions, but, these thoughts would be useless, and at most only would be suitable for a philosophy class if they are not going to be ever implemented in the real world.
BTW, try to cry a river for mullahs and invite them to think a little more as you said, but, they won't give a damn about you and laugh at you, simply since they don't need to care for your opinion as a silent sheep

 

[bozorgmehr]

were Gandhi, Jinah, Ataturk, Mosaddegh, Lincoln, Robespierre, ... empty drums? No, they were people with bright mentality and big balls to chant and pursue their goals.
The world works on a simple basis, you are either a wolf or a sheep. one can be a nice, gentle, ... sheep, but, at the end, it means getting slaughtered by wolves.

Well Ghandi and Mossadegh didn't exactly have red hot extremist views and they were not known for their desire to order people around. I can't speak about Jinah. So Ataturk and Robespierre might be more apt role models, both of whom were cause for much pain and suffering to much of humanity.

 

[rmi5]

Well Ghandi and Mossadegh didn't exactly have red hot extremist views and they were not known for their desire to order people around. I can't speak about Jinah. So Ataturk and Robespierre might be more apt role models, both of whom were cause for much pain and suffering to much of humanity.

Watch the video below, after 4:10 :

I hope now you can understand what I mean.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Which part of my post is hard to understand? thoughts only have value when they are implemented, otherwise they have no value and they are bunch of empty words. FYI, I started learning logic and philosophy from when I was 12-13 years old. obviously, one needs to have insights, and well thought opinions, but, these thoughts would be useless, and at most only would be suitable for a philosophy class if they are not going to be ever implemented in the real world.
BTW, try to cry a river for mullahs and invite them to think a little more as you said, but, they won't give a damn about you and laugh at you, simply since they don't need to care for your opinion as a silent sheep

"thoughts only have value when they are implemented, otherwise they have no value and they are bunch of empty words." Where do you find stuff like that? Try telling that to Stephen Hawking who is not much in the business of implementing things. As a student of philosophy, I'm sure you've heard of Descartes' famous proposition "I think, therefore I am". It's the thought the proves the existence. Not the other way around! Our way of thinking affects how we perceive the world. 2 different people in 2 different moods can interpret the same event totally differently. How we experience the world is to a large extent a fabrication of our mind.

Societies worse that Iran have changed over time. We are no less or different than other humans. But we first have to understand what we want. Which is why I'm talking to you.

 

[rmi5]

"thoughts only have value when they are implemented, otherwise they have no value and they are bunch of empty words." Where do you find stuff like that? Try telling that to Stephen Hawking who is not much in the business of implementing things. As a student of philosophy, I'm sure you've heard of Descartes' famous proposition "I think, therefore I am". It's the thought the proves the existence. Not the other way around! Our way of thinking affects how we perceive the world. 2 different people in 2 different moods can interpret the same event totally differently. How we experience the world is to a large extent a fabrication of our mind.

Societies worse that Iran have changed over time. We are no less or different than other humans. But we first have to understand what we want. Which is why I'm talking to you.

I hope that 9 decades of living under dictatorships have been enough time for you to finally understand what you want. Now, tell me that what do you want to do to implement your thoughts? sitting in your chair, smoking hookah, and drink coffee and talk and write bunch of useless words?!!!

BTW, Descartes quote has nothing to do with our discussion neither researching in Physics. We are talking about the stuff that are related to the society not some abstract thoughts in physics or mathematics. There is a clear difference if you have not noticed it.

 

[bozorgmehr]

Watch the video below, after 4:10 :

I hope now you can understand what I mean.

Thanks for the link! I like Moshiri and enjoy his frank talk. But I'm not his mental slave. If it hadn't been for extremist and unwise Sassanid policies, Iran would have never been weak enough to be invaded by a bunch of Arabian nomads and later on by Mongols. So the responsibility still falls on our shoulders. A rational and even tempered person/nation will always be stronger than one that isn't. Because they have more mental resources at their disposal, therefore more choices of action are available to them.

Our problem is an old one. It didn't start with the Mollahs. And it wouldn't end, if they leave tomorrow...