Iranian Chill Thread

[tsunset]

US deploys guided-missile submarine amid tensions with Iran​

https://apnews.com/article/gulf-tensions-us-submarine-iran-74d6bc9cf2b8781edab7b081151914ae

Something posted two days ago here:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1644840323607134211

Are they going for a false flag attack? Also in that same article:

The U.S., the U.K. and Israel have accused Iran of targeting oil tankers and commercial ships in recent years, allegations denied by Tehran. The U.S. Navy has also reported a series of tense encounters at sea with Iranian forces that it said were being recklessly aggressive.

It smells from 1km something murky going on...

 

[Hack-Hook]

They've already been used against criminals innumerable times.

still the one who destroyed people property while wearing security forces clothes are at large while their face get caught on cameras . meanwhile a girl who was videoed from back while removing her scarf was arrested

It started right with last year's riots.

so you admit to exactly what i said, after آتش به اختیار

Have you conducted a comprehensive study to be able to make assertions about percentages?

Also, getting beaten, stabbed or murdered is not an adequate reaction to so-called harassment in any civilized person's book.

it seems you started that study
and when you are protected while doing harassment even if you physically attack a person (and there are videos of it, so don't waste time denying it . you expect people loose their patience at some time .

I follow the news. Violence is mostly directed against peaceful 'amerin, far more than against bad hejab females.

denial

One would have a hard time attempting to prove this.

show me a single time they were prosecuted

I'm referring to regular 'amerin getting physically assaulted. Plenty such cases have been documented and therefore my point stands.

Even if some stray from the regulations, harassment is not the same as physical violence. Kindly do not legitimize assault.

some ? again denial
in those videos at in many case the girls physically get attacked . suggest as you go and follow the news of amereen getting attacked also go and watch some of the videos on opposition sites too. enlighten you how some of these people do the Enjoining Wrong and forbidding good ,
as i said there are four condition for Enjoining Good and forbidding wrong, its not a secret conditions that are buried in religious texts that nobody even look . they are taught twice in guidance school and high-school as part of our curriculum (well at least it was the case when i was going to school, don't knew if they removed them from text books) and in all of the videos i saw and many of the incidents i see on street , none of the condition seemed to be observed.

Doesn't nullify their work in the public modesty department.

it seems their work is only include public modesty department

There's ijma' among Islamic scholars - both Shia and Sunni, that hejab is not only compulsory but also among the vajebat of din.

and there is no compulsion in religion

 

[shadihassan28]

still the one who destroyed people property while wearing security forces clothes are at large while their face get caught on cameras . meanwhile a girl who was videoed from back while removing her scarf was arrested

so you admit to exactly what i said, after آتش به اختیار

it seems you started that study
and when you are protected while doing harassment even if you physically attack a person (and there are videos of it, so don't waste time denying it . you expect people loose their patience at some time .

denial

show me a single time they were prosecuted

some ? again denial
in those videos at in many case the girls physically get attacked . suggest as you go and follow the news of amereen getting attacked also go and watch some of the videos on opposition sites too. enlighten you how some of these people do the Enjoining Wrong and forbidding good ,
as i said there are for condition for Enjoining Good and forbidding wrong, its not a secret conditions that are buried in religious texts that nobody even look . they are taught twice in guidance school and high-school as part of our curriculum (well at least it was the case when i was going to school, don't knew if they removed them from text books) and in all of the videos i saw and many of the incidents i see on street , none of the condition seemed to be observed.

it seems their work is only include public modesty department

and there is no compulsion in religion

There’s actually nothing about hijab in the Quran, it’s how people interpret it one person says tomato one person says tomatoe. I’ve said it before on this forum my wife wears the hijab and give or take a half of my relatives on either side of the family but no one is forced to wear it’s a woman’s decision to wear it and it’s their own personal journey, as long as the women are covered up not showing cleavage and dresses way below the knee it is what it is if Allah decides their decisions were wrong Allah will judge us in the after life.

 

[SalarHaqq]

still the one who destroyed people property while wearing security forces clothes are at large while their face get caught on cameras . meanwhile a girl who was videoed from back while removing her scarf was arrested

CCTV cameras are used to arrest criminals so they are an asset to law enforcement. What you're coming up with is unrelated to the point.

so you admit to exactly what i said, after آتش به اختیار

I don't even know what "atash be ekhtiar" you are referring to.

it seems you started that study

Not really, I responded to a remark according to which few 'amerin be ma'ruf follow to the rules. If you're going to issue a claim in this regard you need to cite a credible source.

and when you are protected while doing harassment even if you physically attack a person (and there are videos of it, so don't waste time denying it . you expect people loose their patience at some time .

I see no valid relation here at all. Assaulting a person who hasn't resorted to violence is uncivilized and delinquent if not criminal behaviour, period. Kindly refrain from fabricating excuses for physical assault.

As for violence emanating from 'amerine be ma'ruf, I already stated that the number of such cases I came across reading the news was literally dwarfed by instances of physical attacks against peaceful 'amerin going about their efforts in a proper manner.

Also 'amerin are not entitled by law to initiate physical confrontation.

denial

Fact.

show me a single time they were prosecuted

Not only have I no idea what you're referring to, but none of it could possibly furnish a valid justification for violence against peaceful citizens performing a collective religious duty.

some ? again denial
in those videos at in many case the girls physically get attacked . suggest as you go and follow the news of amereen getting attacked also go and watch some of the videos on opposition sites too. enlighten you how some of these people do the Enjoining Wrong and forbidding good ,
as i said there are for condition for Enjoining Good and forbidding wrong, its not a secret conditions that are buried in religious texts that nobody even look . they are taught twice in guidance school and high-school as part of our curriculum (well at least it was the case when i was going to school, don't knew if they removed them from text books) and in all of the videos i saw and many of the incidents i see on street , none of the condition seemed to be observed.

I'm relating what I could gather from the news I follow. If you challenge my conclusion, substantiate it with evidence rather than relying on blanket assertions.

From what I saw, attacks on 'amerin have been far more frequent than the opposite. As for your suggestion that 'amerin are blatantly unfamiliar with the legal framework of their activity, substantiate it with evidence.

it seems their work is only include public modesty department

I salute any beneficial work. To say it must stop because there's a shortcoming in other areas is irrational.

and there is no compulsion in religion

See my previous post as to what the verse implies.

Or tread up on it here:

Studying the Qur’an

The holy book of the Muslims is the Qur’an; it is the revelation of Almighty Allah upon Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny). The 114 chapters of the Qur’an were revealed in a piece-meal form in around twenty-two years; some of the verses were revealed in Mecca while others were...

www.al-islam.org

 

[SalarHaqq]

There’s actually nothing about hijab in the Quran, it’s how people interpret it one person says tomato one person says tomatoe.

Our understanding is not that everyone can randomly interpret the scriptures as they see fit.

We have an institutionalized clergy which serves as a source of emulation.

As for the Holy Qur'an not touching upon the topic of hejab, you might want to have a look at the following:

The Qur’an and Hijab

Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier. The...

www.al-islam.org

I’ve said it before on this forum my wife wears the hijab and give or take a half of my relatives on either side of the family but no one is forced to wear it’s a woman’s decision to wear it and it’s their own personal journey, as long as the women are covered up not showing cleavage and dresses way below the knee it is what it is if Allah decides their decisions were wrong Allah will judge us in the after life.

As soon as it directly affects social life, it is no longer an exclusively private matter but a public one as well. An Islamic government has the duty to regulate the public sphere according to Islamic norms and in such a way that sin is not encouraged.

 

[shadihassan28]

Our understanding is not that everyone can randomly interpret the scriptures as they see fit.

We have an institutionalized clergy which shows us the way and whose teachings we use as a guideline.

As for the Holy Qur'an not touching upon the topic of hejab, you might want to read the following:

The Qur’an and Hijab

Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier. The...

www.al-islam.org

As soon as it affects society, it is no longer an exclusively private matter but a public one as well. An Islamic government has the duty to regulate the public sphere according to Islamic norms and in such a way that sin is not encouraged.

Like I said it speaks of modesty, nothing about hijab one scholar says one thing one scholar says another and you believe it’s on society to control a women I believe it’s family to raise woman properly.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Like I said it speaks of modesty, nothing about hijab

Since it would seem that you overlooked the document, allow me quote its content here (color emphasis added by yours truly):

---

The Qur’an and Hijab​

Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.

The First Verse​

In Chapter 24, known as an-Nur (the Light), in verse 30, Allah commands Prophet Muhammad as follows:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ يَغُضُّوْا مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِمْ وَ يَحْفَظُوْا فُرُوْجَهُمْ, ذَلِكَ أَزْكَى لَهُمْ.

“Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”(24:30).

This is a command to Muslim men that they should not lustfully look at women (other than their own wives); and in order to prevent any possibility of temptation, they are required to cast their glances downwards. This is known as “hijab of the eyes”.

Then in the next verse, Allah commands the Prophet to address the women:

قُلْ لِلْمُؤْمِنَاتِ يَغْضُضْنَ مِنْ أَبْصَارِهِنَّ وَ يَحْفَظْنَ فُرُوْجَهُنَّ...

“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…” (24:31).

This is a similar command as given to the men in the previous verse regarding “hijab of the eyes”.

This hijab of eyes is similar to the teaching of Jesus where he says, “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, you shall not commit adultery. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”1 So if you see a Muslim casting his/her eyes downwards when he/she is talking to a member of opposite sex, this should not be considered as rude or an indication of lack of confidence — he/she is just abiding by the Qur’anic as well as Biblical teaching.
* * * * *
After “hijab of the eyes” came the order describing the dress code for women:

وَ لاَ يُبْدِيْنَ زِيْنَتَهُنَّ إِلاَّ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَ لْيَضْرِبْنَ بِخُمُرِهِنَّ عَلىَ جُيُوْبِهِنَّ...

“...and not display their beauty except what is apparent, and they should place their khumur over their bosoms...” (24:31).

There are two issues about this sentence.

(1) What Is The Meaning Of “Khumur” Used In This Verse?​

Khumur خُمُرٌ is plural of khimarخِمَارٌ , the veil covering the head. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head —ما تغطى به المرأة رأسها .” Fakhru ’d-Din al-Turayhi in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn (which is a dictionary of Qur’anic and hadith terms) defines al-khimar as “scarf, and it is known as such because the head is covered with it.”2

So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.

(2) Then What Does The Clause “Placing The Khumur Over The Bosoms” Mean?​

According to the commentators of the Qur’an, the women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also.3

This is confirmed by the way the Muslim women of the Prophet’s era understood this commandment of Almighty Allah. The Sunni sources quote Ummu ’l-mu’minin ‘A’isha, the Prophet’s wife, as follows: “I have not seen women better than those of al-Ansar (the inhabitants of Medina): when this verse was revealed, all of them got hold of their aprons, tore them apart, and used them to cover their heads...”4

The meaning of khimar and the context in which the verse was revealed clearly talks about concealing the head and then using the loose ends of the scarf to conceal the neck and the bosom. It is absurd to believe that the Qur’an would use the word khimar (which, by definition, means a cloth that covers the head) only to conceal the bosom with the exclusion of the head! It would be like saying to put on your shirt only around the belly or the waist without covering the chest!

Finally the verse goes on to give the list of the mahram – male family members in whose presence the hijab is not required, such as the husband, the father, the father-in-law, the son(s), and others.

The Second Verse​

In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ...

“O Prophet! Say to your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.” (33:59).

​

What Is The Meaning Of “Jalabib”?​

Jalabib جَلاَبِيْبٌ is the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ , which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, for instance, defines jilbab as “the shirt or a wide dress—القميص أو الثوب الواسع.” While al-Turayhi, in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, defines it as “a wide dress, wider than the scarf and shorter than a robe, that a woman puts upon her head and lets it down on her bosom...”5

This means that the Islamic dress code for women does not only consist of a scarf that covers the head, the neck and the bosom; it also includes the overall dress that should be long and loose.

So, for instance, the combination of a tight, short sweater with tight-fitting jeans with a scarf over the head does not fulfill the requirements of the Islamic dress code.

• 1. The Gospel of Matthew, chap. 5, verses 27-28.
• 2. Al-Munjid (Beirut: Daru ’l-Mashriq, 1986) p. 195; at-Turayh¢, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol.1 (Tehran: Daftar Nashr, 1408 AH) p. 700. See at-Tusi, at-Tibyan, vol. 7 (Qum: Maktabatu ’l-l‘lam al-Islami, 1409 AH) p. 428; at-Tabrasi, Majma’u ’l-Bayan, vol. 7 (Beirut: Dar Ihyai ’t-Turathi ’l-‘Arabi, 1379AH) p.138; also see the famous Sunni commentator, Fakhru ’d-Din ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol. 23 (Beirut: Daru ’l-Kutubi ’l-‘Ilmiyya, 1990) p. 179-180. Even the Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic (Ithaca, NY: Spoken Languages Services, 1976) defines al-khimar as “veil covering head and face of a woman.” (p. 261) No one has excluded the covering of the head from definition of “al-khimar”.
• 3. Ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol.23, p. 179, and other famous commentaries and collections of hadith such as at-Tabataba’i, al-Mizan, vol. 15 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1397AH) p. 121; al-Kulayni, al-Furu‘ mina ’l-Kafi, vol. 5 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1367AH) p. 521. Also see the commentaries of al-Kashshaf, Ibn Kathir, at-Tabari, and al-Qurtubi.
• 4. Ibid, also see, al-Bukhari, Sahih (Arabic & English) vol. 6 (Beirut: Daru ’l-‘Arabiyya) p. 267; Abu ’l-A‘la Mawdudi, Tafhimu ’l-Qur’an, vol. 3 (Lahore: Idara-e Tarjuman-e Qur’an, 1994) p. 316.
• 5. Ibid. al-Munjid, p. 96; at-Turayhi, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol. 1, p.384.

---

one scholar says one thing one scholar says another

As pointed out earlier, there's consensus among authoritative scholars of both Shia and Sunni Islam about the fact that the Islamic dress code is an obligatory act (wajib).

So it's not as if scholarly exegesis was really ambivalent in this regard.

and you believe it’s on society to control a women I believe it’s family to raise woman properly.

No I believe it's an Islamic government's duty to ensure that the public space remains Islamic in character and conducive to virtue.

 

[shadihassan28]

Since it would seem that you overlooked the document I shared, allow me quote its content here (color emphasis added by yours truly):

---

The Qur’an and Hijab​

Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.

The First Verse​

In Chapter 24, known as an-Nur (the Light), in verse 30, Allah commands Prophet Muhammad as follows:



“Say to the believing men that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste). This is better for them.”(24:30).
This is a command to Muslim men that they should not lustfully look at women (other than their own wives); and in order to prevent any possibility of temptation, they are required to cast their glances downwards. This is known as “hijab of the eyes”.

Then in the next verse, Allah commands the Prophet to address the women:



“Say to the believing women that: they should cast down their glances and guard their private parts (by being chaste)…” (24:31).

This is a similar command as given to the men in the previous verse regarding “hijab of the eyes”.

This hijab of eyes is similar to the teaching of Jesus where he says, “You have heard that it was said by them of old time, you shall not commit adultery. But I say unto you, That whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”1 So if you see a Muslim casting his/her eyes downwards when he/she is talking to a member of opposite sex, this should not be considered as rude or an indication of lack of confidence — he/she is just abiding by the Qur’anic as well as Biblical teaching.
* * * * *
After “hijab of the eyes” came the order describing the dress code for women:



“...and not display their beauty except what is apparent, and they should place their khumur over their bosoms...” (24:31).

There are two issues about this sentence.

(1) What Is The Meaning Of “Khumur” Used In This Verse?​

Khumur خُمُرٌ is plural of khimarخِمَارٌ , the veil covering the head. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, which is the most popular dictionary in the Arab world, defines al-khimar as “something with which a woman conceals her head —ما تغطى به المرأة رأسها .” Fakhru ’d-Din al-Turayhi in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn (which is a dictionary of Qur’anic and hadith terms) defines al-khimar as “scarf, and it is known as such because the head is covered with it.”2

So the word khimar, by definition, means a piece of cloth that covers the head.

(2) Then What Does The Clause “Placing The Khumur Over The Bosoms” Mean?​

According to the commentators of the Qur’an, the women of Medina in the pre-Islamic era used to put their khumur over the head with the two ends tucked behind and tied at the back of the neck, in the process exposing their ears and neck. By saying that, “place the khumur over the bosoms,” Almighty Allah ordered the women to let the two ends of their headgear extend onto their bosoms so that they conceal their ears, the neck, and the upper part of the bosom also.3

This is confirmed by the way the Muslim women of the Prophet’s era understood this commandment of Almighty Allah. The Sunni sources quote Ummu ’l-mu’minin ‘A’isha, the Prophet’s wife, as follows: “I have not seen women better than those of al-Ansar (the inhabitants of Medina): when this verse was revealed, all of them got hold of their aprons, tore them apart, and used them to cover their heads...”4

The meaning of khimar and the context in which the verse was revealed clearly talks about concealing the head and then using the loose ends of the scarf to conceal the neck and the bosom. It is absurd to believe that the Qur’an would use the word khimar (which, by definition, means a cloth that covers the head) only to conceal the bosom with the exclusion of the head! It would be like saying to put on your shirt only around the belly or the waist without covering the chest!

Finally the verse goes on to give the list of the mahram – male family members in whose presence the hijab is not required, such as the husband, the father, the father-in-law, the son(s), and others.

The Second Verse​

In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:



“O Prophet! Say to your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.” (33:59).

​

What Is The Meaning Of “Jalabib”?​

Jalabib جَلاَبِيْبٌ is the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ , which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, for instance, defines jilbab as “the shirt or a wide dress—القميص أو الثوب الواسع.” While al-Turayhi, in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, defines it as “a wide dress, wider than the scarf and shorter than a robe, that a woman puts upon her head and lets it down on her bosom...”5

This means that the Islamic dress code for women does not only consist of a scarf that covers the head, the neck and the bosom; it also includes the overall dress that should be long and loose.

So, for instance, the combination of a tight, short sweater with tight-fitting jeans with a scarf over the head does not fulfill the requirements of the Islamic dress code.

• 1. The Gospel of Matthew, chap. 5, verses 27-28.
• 2. Al-Munjid (Beirut: Daru ’l-Mashriq, 1986) p. 195; at-Turayh¢, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol.1 (Tehran: Daftar Nashr, 1408 AH) p. 700. See at-Tusi, at-Tibyan, vol. 7 (Qum: Maktabatu ’l-l‘lam al-Islami, 1409 AH) p. 428; at-Tabrasi, Majma’u ’l-Bayan, vol. 7 (Beirut: Dar Ihyai ’t-Turathi ’l-‘Arabi, 1379AH) p.138; also see the famous Sunni commentator, Fakhru ’d-Din ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol. 23 (Beirut: Daru ’l-Kutubi ’l-‘Ilmiyya, 1990) p. 179-180. Even the Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic (Ithaca, NY: Spoken Languages Services, 1976) defines al-khimar as “veil covering head and face of a woman.” (p. 261) No one has excluded the covering of the head from definition of “al-khimar”.
• 3. Ar-Razi, at-Tafsiru ’l-Kabir, vol.23, p. 179, and other famous commentaries and collections of hadith such as at-Tabataba’i, al-Mizan, vol. 15 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1397AH) p. 121; al-Kulayni, al-Furu‘ mina ’l-Kafi, vol. 5 (Tehran: Daru ’l-Kutub, 1367AH) p. 521. Also see the commentaries of al-Kashshaf, Ibn Kathir, at-Tabari, and al-Qurtubi.
• 4. Ibid, also see, al-Bukhari, Sahih (Arabic & English) vol. 6 (Beirut: Daru ’l-‘Arabiyya) p. 267; Abu ’l-A‘la Mawdudi, Tafhimu ’l-Qur’an, vol. 3 (Lahore: Idara-e Tarjuman-e Qur’an, 1994) p. 316.
• 5. Ibid. al-Munjid, p. 96; at-Turayhi, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, vol. 1, p.384.

---

As pointed out earlier, there's consensus among authoritative scholars of both Shia and Sunni Islam about the fact that the Islamic dress code is an obligatory act.

So it's not as if scholarly exegesis was really ambivalent in this regard.



No I believe it's an Islamic government's duty to ensure that the public space remains Islamic in character and conducive to virtue.

Again all you showed me was an interpretation of what it means to be modest that’s why it’s in quotations, and yes like I said it’s what you believe that government should control such things and I believe family should be the proper instructor of children, the more you you try to control people and their actions the more they will do the opposite. Hijab in America is becoming resurgent many more Muslim women are deciding to wear earlier and earlier, because when certain segments of society tells you it’s wrong you start wearing it to show you are of your religion. But again like I said it’s your views my daughter is going to be 9 and she’s talking about wearing the hijab to copy her mom my wife told her when she is 13 she can make the decision on her own.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Again all you showed me was an interpretation of what it means to be modest

It actually shows us where the Holy Qur'an contains a concrete description of the dress code for females as ordained by God. The terms aren't vague but pretty straightforward and clear in their definitions.

This should answer the notion that the Holy Qur'an is not making mention of hejab.

that’s why it’s in quotations,

I'm not sure I follow you here. Anything cited from another book requires to be placed in quotations, doesn't it. Quotation marks denote the fact that the passage in question is taken from an outside source, not that a subjective interpretation is being carried out of said source.

and yes like I said it’s what you believe that government should control such things and I believe family should be the proper instructor of children,

Education is a separate topic. I am rather referring to a government's duty to regulate the public space. It's not the same thing.

And the latter activity isn't exclusive to Islamic governments by the way. I'd recommend looking up the etymology of the term 'government' itself: it is derived from a Greek word which means 'to steer', i.e. to move something into a certain direction.

So no government will leave society to simply self-regulate. Governments have a panoply of tools at their disposal, from legal to other instruments, designed to produce a desired social outcome. Those claiming otherwise, like proponents of liberalism often tend to, are either hiding behind a smokescreen or misleading themselves.

the more you you try to control people and their actions the more they will do the opposite.

Outlawing murder will encourage people to kill? I'd say it's much more complex than that.

Hijab in America is becoming resurgent many more Muslim women are deciding to wear earlier and earlier, because when certain segments of society tells you it’s wrong you start wearing it to show you are of your religion. But again like I said it’s your views

Not just mine, it's also the consensual view among Islamic scholarship.

 

[shadihassan28]

Did you read it? Because it actually indicates where the Holy Qur'an contains a concrete description of the dress code for females. The terms are not vague but pretty clearly defined.

It answers your statement that the Holy Qur'an does not make any mention of hejab.



Not sure I understand. Anything cited from another book requires to be placed in quotations, doesn't it. Quotation marks mean that the passage in question is taken from another source, not that a subjective interpretation is being carried out of said source.



Education is a separate topic. I am rather referring to a government's duty to regulate the public space. It's not the same thing.

And the latter activity is not exclusive to Islamic governments by the way. I'd recommend looking up the etymology of the term 'government' itself: it is derived from a Greek word which means 'to steer', i.e. to move something into a certain direction.

So no government will leave society to simply self-regulate. Governments have a panoply of tools at their disposal, from legal to other instruments, designed to produce a desired social outcome. Those claiming otherwise, like proponents of liberalism often tend to do, are either hiding behind a smokescreen or misleading themselves.



Outlawing murder will encourage people to kill? I'd say it's much more complex than that.



Not just mine, it's also the consensual view among Islamic scholarship.

So your comparing murder to hijab pushing it and I’m assuming you mean not making it legal and yes like I said it’s which scholar you speak to, unless you kind find the literal word hijab in the Quran this is going to keep on going in circles you can believe what you believe my family was brought up to read the Quran and follow it to the word of the Quran not by someone or some people who might have their own personal agendas from the left leaning side to the right side. All of a sudden hijab became not mandatory in Saudi Arabia the birth place of Islam now it’s not why because someone higher up namely mbs told them he didn’t want it mandatory so yeah I don’t follow institutions or what other people tell me because tomorrow they can easily change their “views” either way I’m going to sleep night.

 

[SalarHaqq]

So your comparing murder to hijab pushing it and I’m assuming you mean not making it illegal

I addressed the notion that prohibiting an act will necessarily motivate people to commit said act.

and yes like I said it’s which scholar you speak to,

There is consensus among scholars as to the compulsory nature of hejab. So it does not really depend on what scholar you ask, every authoritative one from both main branches of Islam will concur.

unless you kind find the literal word hijab in the Quran

A quoted verse contains the literal Arabic noun for head-cover.

this is going to keep on going in circles

I'd request that you kindly take the time to read the document prior to responding next time, because your reply makes me wonder as to whether you actually did.

my family was brought up to read the Quran and follow it to the word of the Quran not by someone or some people who might have their own personal agendas from the left leaning side to the right side.

Is this to say Seyyed Mohammad Rizvi's explanations are motivated by a personal agenda rather than submission to God and the wish to clarify His Laws? This would be a grave contention, and I would sincerely advise against accusing a believer without evidence.

All of a sudden hijab became not mandatory in Saudi Arabia the birth place of Islam now it’s not why because someone higher up namely mbs told them he didn’t want it mandatory so yeah I don’t follow institutions or what other people tell me because tomorrow they can easily change their “views” either way I’m going to sleep night.

Hejab is a mandatory rule for Moslem women to follow and no serious authority in Saudi Arabia claimed otherwise. Whether it's incumbent upon the government to enforce this religious duty is a second question. Please don't confuse the two.

 

[shadihassan28]

I addressed the notion that prohibiting an act will necessarily push people to commit it.



There is consensus among scholars as to the compulsory nature of hejab. So it does not really depend on what scholar you ask, all authoritative scholars from both main branches of Islam agree.



The quoted verse contains the literal Arabic term for head-cover.



I'd request that you read the document prior to responding again, because your response tends to indicate that you did not do so.



Are you alleging that Seyyed Mohammad Rizvi's explanations are motivated by a personal agenda rather than submission to God and his commands? This would be a grave accusation, and I would sincerely advise against accusing a believer without evidence.



Hejab is mandatory in Islam and nobody in Saudi Arabia claimed otherwise. Whether the government ought to enforce this religious duty is a second question. You just mixed up the two.

Ok Goodnite

 

[SalarHaqq]

Ok Goodnite

Good night.

 

[Ich]

I saw a lot of vids Iran 2023, showing living in Iran in different cities. And in all vids there is a mix of women with Hejab and without Hejab. Whereas it doesnt depend on the age of the women. The vids show street life and in all vids i didnt see any action against women without hijab. So me get the impression that the topic is overhyped.

Edit:

e.g. this one

 

[Hack-Hook]

CCTV cameras are used to arrest criminals so they are an asset to law enforcement. What you're coming up with is unrelated to the point.

its exactly as i said what you claim is unrelated

I don't even know what "atash be ekhtiar" you are referring to.

denial

Not really, I responded to a remark according to which few 'amerin be ma'ruf follow to the rules. If you're going to issue a claim in this regard you need to cite a credible source.

then don't make a claim if you don't want others answer with same logic

I see no valid relation here at all. Assaulting a person who hasn't resorted to violence is uncivilized and delinquent if not criminal behaviour, period. Kindly refrain from fabricating excuses for physical assault.

As for violence emanating from 'amerine be ma'ruf, I already stated that the number of such cases I came across reading the news was literally dwarfed by instances of physical attacks against peaceful 'amerin going about their efforts in a proper manner.

Also 'amerin are not entitled by law to initiate physical confrontation.

many of the time you say peaceful it was not actually peaceful and for each instance of attack on amereen you can find several time the videos of their behavior.

Fact.

denial

Not only have I no idea what you're referring to, but none of it could possibly furnish a valid justification for violence against peaceful citizens performing a collective religious duty.

denial and evasion

From what I saw, attacks on 'amerin have been f

knew frequent than the opposite. As for your suggestion that 'amerin are blatantly unfamiliar with the legal framework of their activity, substantiate it with evidence.

changing the fact , trying to rewrite the history and deny what really happens here

I salute any beneficial work. To say it must stop because there's a shortcoming in other areas is irrational.

so you admit , todays it solely target women and teenage girl not what really damaging our country from inside