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Iranian Chill Thread

@Philosopher

Bro, do you know the reason why Iran GDP is stagnant since 2011 (Arab spring started)


Unfortunately Iran's economy is in a constant battle with these sanctions and mismanagement in dealing with the economy. This stagnation and deceases in GDP is a consequences of that. Frankly speaking, one could say it is impressive how Iran's economy has not collapsed, never mind attained a general consistent level throughout these "maximum pressure campaigns" over the previous few decades. Had Iran's political situation been different, Iran could have been one of the top economical powers today. However, the debate is whether that would have been worth it if it means Iran would not have the independence it has today. Iran's economical situation has seen the worse, from now, the trend can only be growth if the proper management is put into effect. The good news is that Iran has taken steps in trying to grow its economy under these sanctions and we are seeing some results. The focus on development of so called "knowledge based companies" is an important part of that:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...s-to-raise-annual-sales-to-35-billion.670518/
 

Turkey is in an intense negotiation phase with US over Libya and Syria and is ready to make tactical and even strategic offers to get help. There are unproven reports that they got intelligence from US in Libya.

The changes in trade with Iran and rhetorics are to make US more interested.
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Unfortunately Iran's economy is in a constant battle with these sanctions and mismanagement in dealing with the economy. This stagnation and deceases in GDP is a consequences of that. Frankly speaking, one could say it is impressive how Iran's economy has not collapsed, never mind attained a general consistent level throughout these "maximum pressure campaigns" over the previous few decades. Had Iran's political situation been different, Iran could have been one of the top economical powers today. However, the debate is whether that would have been worth it if it means Iran would not have the independence it has today. Iran's economical situation has seen the worse, from now, the trend can only be growth if the proper management is put into effect. The good news is that Iran has taken steps in trying to grow its economy under these sanctions and we are seeing some results. The focus on development of so called "knowledge based companies" is an important part of that:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...s-to-raise-annual-sales-to-35-billion.670518/

I guess the decrease of the GDP is more to the fall of your currency rather than stagnation in actual growth. In my opinion Iran need to be more friendly to USA for the sake of its economy. I see you guys are so brave against USA that lead to more sanction. But what I dont understand is that the stagnation started during Obama administration which is IMO quite soft to Iran compared to USA under Republican.

I see your economy develop quite fast under Bush administration. Not many sanction I guess given into Iran that make Iran can benefit from raising oil price at that period.
 
@Philosopher

Bro, do you know the reason why Iran GDP is stagnant since 2011 (Arab spring started)

I guess the decrease of the GDP is more to the fall of your currency rather than stagnation in actual growth. In my opinion Iran need to be more friendly to USA for the sake of its economy. I see you guys are so brave against USA that lead to more sanction. But what I dont understand is that the stagnation started during Obama administration which is IMO quite soft to Iran compared to USA under Republican.

I see your economy develop quite fast under Bush administration.
The 4th round of UNSC sanctions on Iran, which was passed in 2010, started to show its effects on the Iranian economy in 2011. It had nothing to do with the Arab spring.
 
I guess the decrease of the GDP is more to the fall of your currency rather than stagnation in actual growth. In my opinion Iran need to be more friendly to USA for the sake of its economy. I see you guys are so brave against USA that lead to more sanction. But what I dont understand is that the stagnation started during Obama administration which is IMO quite soft to Iran compared to USA under Republican.

I see your economy develop quite fast under Bush administration. Not many sanction I guess given into Iran that make Iran can benefit from raising oil price at that period.

Security matters more than GDP. Libya had a GDP growth rate of 13 thanks to negotiations with US. Libya was getting mirage from France and then guess what, Libya was bombed by France and then chaos and now has a GDP of -13.

Indonesians could not protect partition of their own country since they relied on others. They bowed to the stronger power and lost their land. Partition and losing land is HUGE in my culture. HUGE.
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The 4th round of UNSC sanctions on Iran, which was passed in 2010, started to show its effects on the Iranian economy in 2011. It had nothing to do with the Arab spring.

I guess it is Iran nuclear development that cause the sanction. And why Russia and China dont veto it.

Indonesia at that time also was in UNSC and we have supported Iran during our membership in UNSC

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RI calls UN Security Council sanctions on Iran ineffective
  • Mustaqim Adamrah
    The Jakarta Post
Jakarta / Sat, June 12 2010 / 10:35 am

Indonesia expressed regret Friday over new international sanctions slapped on Iran over its nuclear development, saying the UN Security Council should have solved the issue through dialogue.“Indonesia regrets the fact that the situation developed in such a way that the Security Council deemed it necessary to impose additional sanctions on Iran,” Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa told reporters.“Indonesia consistently believes that what must be emphasized is resolving the issue through dialogue and negotiations.”

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...urity-council-sanctions-iran-ineffective.html

Our Foreign Minister at that time
78336_marty_natalegawa_300_225.jpg


Indonesia is the only country in UNSC that doesnt support sanction to Iran. Look like Russia and China betray you guys.

https://www.dw.com/id/indonesia-abstain-soal-iran/a-3166832

04.03.2008

The United Nations Security Council agreed to impose new sanctions on Iran over the atomic dispute. Decisions are taken by voting or voting at the United Nations Headquarters, New York. Of the 15 member countries of the UN Security Council, 14 countries or almost all of them approved the new resolution. Indonesia is the only one who is abstaining. Indonesian Ambassador to the United Nations Marty Natalegawa explained the reason:
"The goal of the previous resolution strategy has been achieved. Iran has collaborated with the IAEA International Atomic Energy Agency. At this point, imposing new sanctions is not the best step. "
 
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I guess it is Iran nuclear development that cause the sanction. And why Russia and China dont veto it.

Indonesia at that time also was in UNSC and we have supported Iran during our membership in UNSC

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RI calls UN Security Council sanctions on Iran ineffective
  • Mustaqim Adamrah
    The Jakarta Post
Jakarta / Sat, June 12 2010 / 10:35 am

Indonesia expressed regret Friday over new international sanctions slapped on Iran over its nuclear development, saying the UN Security Council should have solved the issue through dialogue.“Indonesia regrets the fact that the situation developed in such a way that the Security Council deemed it necessary to impose additional sanctions on Iran,” Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa told reporters.“Indonesia consistently believes that what must be emphasized is resolving the issue through dialogue and negotiations.”

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...urity-council-sanctions-iran-ineffective.html

Our Foreign Minister at that time
78336_marty_natalegawa_300_225.jpg


Indonesia is the only country in UNSC that doesnt support sanction to Iran. Look like Russia and China betray you guys.

https://www.dw.com/id/indonesia-abstain-soal-iran/a-3166832

No, Indonesia never supported Iran as far as I remember. Only Turkey and Brazil supported Iran because we had signed a nuclear deal with them in 2009, but the US refused the deal. Lebanon abstained.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2010/sc9948.doc.htm

China and Russia have never supported Iran in the UNSC. They voted in favor of all 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions. Any Iranian who thinks China or Russia can be trusted is fooling themselves.
 
No, Indonesia never supported Iran as far as I remember. Only Turkey and Brazil supported Iran because we had signed a nuclear deal with them in 2009, but the US refused the deal. Lebanon abstained.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2010/sc9948.doc.htm

China and Russia have never supported Iran in the UNSC. They voted in favor of all 4 rounds of UNSC sanctions. Any Iranian who thinks China or Russia can be trusted is fooling themselves.

We supported you guys by abstaining and always against the sanction when we become the member. Just check the link above. It is from DW, respected media but use Indonesian language.
 
We supported you guys by abstaining and always against the sanction when we become the member. Just check the link above. It is from DW, respected media but use Indonesian language.
I showed you the UN press after the adoption of the resolution 1929. Only Lebanon abstained while Turkey and Brazil voted against the resolution. All other members of the UNSC at the time voted in favor of it. And I think Indonesia wasn't a member of the UNSC in 2010.

You are probably talking about another UNSC resolution before that resolution. Nevertheless, abstention is not support in my opinion.
 
We supported you guys by abstaining and always against the sanction when we become the member. Just check the link above. It is from DW, respected media but use Indonesian language.

That is a different subject. As a thinktank, can you take your land back based on your way of thinking? Bowing to the stronger power.
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That is a different subject. As a thinktank, can you take your land back based on your way of thinking? Bowing to the stronger power.
......

We invaded East Timor, we just given back the land that we dont deserve. Learn some history please.


Indonesian invasion of East Timor

Date 7 December 1975 – 17 July 1976
(7 months, 1 week and 3 days)
Location
East Timor
Result
Belligerents
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia

East Timor dissidents

Supported by:
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia[2][3]
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States[4][5][6]
23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png
Netherlands[7]
23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png
South Korea[7]

23px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png
Taiwan[7]
23px-Flag_of_FRETILIN_%28East_Timor%29.svg.png
East Timor

Supported by:

23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
China[8]
23px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png
Soviet Union[9]
23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Sweden[9]
23px-Flag_of_Cuba.svg.png
Cuba[9]
23px-Flag_of_Mozambique.svg.png
Mozambique[9]
Commanders and leaders
Strength

35,000 soldiers 2,500 regular troops
Casualties and losses
1,000 injured, captured or dead[10][11] Unknown
100,000 to 180,000 soldiers and civilians dead throughout occupation including between 17,600 and 19,600 violent deaths or disappearances[12]
Part of a series on the
History of East Timor



The Indonesian invasion of East Timor, known in Indonesia as Operation Lotus (Indonesian: Operasi Seroja), began on 7 December 1975 when the Indonesian military invaded East Timor under the pretext of anti-colonialism. The overthrowing of a popular and briefly Fretilin-led government later sparked a violent quarter-century occupation in which between approximately 100,000–180,000 soldiers and civilians are estimated to have been killed or starved to death.[12] The Commission for Reception, Truth and Reconciliation in East Timor documented a minimum estimate of 102,000 conflict-related deaths in East Timor throughout the entire period 1974 to 1999, including 18,600 violent killings and 84,200 deaths from disease and starvation; Indonesian forces and their auxiliaries combined were responsible for 70% of the killings.[13][14]

During the first months of the occupation, the Indonesian military faced heavy insurgency resistance in the mountainous interior of the island, but from 1977–1978, the military procured new advanced weaponry from the United States, Israel, and other countries, to destroy Fretilin's framework.[15] The last two decades of the century saw continuous clashes between Indonesian and East Timorese groups over the status of East Timor, until 1999, when a majority of East Timorese voted overwhelmingly for independence (the alternative option being "special autonomy" while remaining part of Indonesia). After a further two and a half years of transition under the auspices of three different United Nations missions, East Timor achieved independence on 20 May 2002.[16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor
 
We invaded East Timor, we just given back the land that we dont deserve. Learn some history please.


Indonesian invasion of East Timor

Date 7 December 1975 – 17 July 1976
(7 months, 1 week and 3 days)
Location
East Timor
Result
Belligerents
23px-Flag_of_Indonesia.svg.png
Indonesia

East Timor dissidents

Supported by:
23px-Flag_of_Australia_%28converted%29.svg.png
Australia[2][3]
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States[4][5][6]
23px-Flag_of_the_Netherlands.svg.png
Netherlands[7]
23px-Flag_of_South_Korea.svg.png
South Korea[7]

23px-Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China.svg.png
Taiwan[7]
23px-Flag_of_FRETILIN_%28East_Timor%29.svg.png
East Timor

Supported by:

23px-Flag_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China.svg.png
China[8]
23px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png
Soviet Union[9]
23px-Flag_of_Sweden.svg.png
Sweden[9]
23px-Flag_of_Cuba.svg.png
Cuba[9]
23px-Flag_of_Mozambique.svg.png
Mozambique[9]
Commanders and leaders
Strength

35,000 soldiers 2,500 regular troops
Casualties and losses
1,000 injured, captured or dead[10][11] Unknown
100,000 to 180,000 soldiers and civilians dead throughout occupation including between 17,600 and 19,600 violent deaths or disappearances[12]
Part of a series on the
History of East Timor



The Indonesian invasion of East Timor, known in Indonesia as Operation Lotus (Indonesian: Operasi Seroja), began on 7 December 1975 when the Indonesian military invaded East Timor under the pretext of anti-colonialism. The overthrowing of a popular and briefly Fretilin-led government later sparked a violent quarter-century occupation in which between approximately 100,000–180,000 soldiers and civilians are estimated to have been killed or starved to death.[12] The Commission for Reception, Truth and Reconciliation in East Timor documented a minimum estimate of 102,000 conflict-related deaths in East Timor throughout the entire period 1974 to 1999, including 18,600 violent killings and 84,200 deaths from disease and starvation; Indonesian forces and their auxiliaries combined were responsible for 70% of the killings.[13][14]

During the first months of the occupation, the Indonesian military faced heavy insurgency resistance in the mountainous interior of the island, but from 1977–1978, the military procured new advanced weaponry from the United States, Israel, and other countries, to destroy Fretilin's framework.[15] The last two decades of the century saw continuous clashes between Indonesian and East Timorese groups over the status of East Timor, until 1999, when a majority of East Timorese voted overwhelmingly for independence (the alternative option being "special autonomy" while remaining part of Indonesia). After a further two and a half years of transition under the auspices of three different United Nations missions, East Timor achieved independence on 20 May 2002.[16

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_invasion_of_East_Timor

You left East Timor fearing economic sanctions and lost the land. Embargo was lifted years after your withdrawal. That is why your advice will not work for Iran.

Countries should line up for your advice. :)

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2006-01/us-lifts-indonesia-arms-embargo

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1356788990581?scroll=top&needAccess=true

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor

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From the website https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?

Worldwide numbers

7.4 million + Covid 19 infections
417,000+ deaths
3.7 million recovered

Iran's second wave seems to be down from the peak with only 2011 infections today. The death rate is up slightly, up to 81 from the 60's and 70's range. The question is, will the infection rates continue to go down from here ?

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