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Iranian Chill Thread

Not number of products and projects.

My friend,

This comment makes zero logical sense. Why would the person refer to quantity in terms of number of people working in factories?

Israel has way more of them. Iran's industry is mostly dedicated to manufacture ballistic missiles and rockets, rather than avionics, air to air missiles, radars, etc etc.

Israel's projects in the sectors you mention are limited in number. Furthermore, even granting that Iran produces many missiles, I hope you'll realise those are still a big part of defence industries in general.

Just look at Iran's products and compare them to Israeli ones.

This did not really answer my question. I asked for a proper yardstick in order to measure what you described. Furthermore, give me an example of what you mean.
 
I will reply to you here as I did not want to take that thread off topic.



I am afraid despite all your radar claims, Turkey has little to show for it in practise . Most of what I can see are future projects. As far as Iran is concerned, it has produced many AESA type radars already in various bands, so whether you consider it a player in the radar field is frankly irrelevant.



I am sorry to say this dear, but I expected more of a challenge from you instead of baseless accusations. Iran has produced long ranged air defence systems indigenously, a capability which is far beyond Turkey's at this present time. Care to explain me what this "60-70 year old foreign systems" the Bavar-373 shown below is from?


Iranian Bavar-373 long range air defence system- A quantum leap in Iran's air defence capability


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iran...-air-defence-capability.670272/#post-12410588

Furthermore, speaking of reverse engineering in general, Iran had to start from somewhere. Unlike Turkey which had the luxury of importing technology from NATO and assemble et cetera, Iran could not. It was the pragmatic decision to start off with known systems and then move on to designing. This is a natural learning curve which should be obvious for anyone.





You are resorting to these self-claimed "most experienced" statement. Iran has a multitude of IR sensors, you are essentially just making accusations without substance.



Care to show evidence of these tests of the ballistic missiles. What guidance systems do these used, do you have inertial guidance systems for ballistic missiles?



Where is the proof for this claim? From what I can see, Turkey is merely assembling the German submarines.



This is getting almost satirical now. Iran designs its own submarine, something which you have not demonstrated. You are basically comparing a German made submarine to Iranian submarines.





You're once again talking about some future project, stick to the capabilities you have today.

Iran is developing nuclear reactor engines for submarines and ships. It is also one of the, if not the first nation to use BLDC electric propulsion for submarines.Iran is also developing AIP and large submarines, I will not discuss them because they are future capabilities. But regardless, I am sorry but you're not close to Iran in the submarine arena.



According to whom? Provide sources for these claims.



Iran's airforce leaves much to be desired.



Iran's navy is growing and at least, it relies solely on its own subcomponents such as engines. which engines do Turkish frigates use?


Iranian Naval engines

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iranian-naval-engines.669406/



1) Iranian electronic industry managed to hack and bring down the RQ-170, a capability far beyond what likes of Turkey have demonstrated in practise.
2) The shooting down of the airliner had nothing to do with Iran's electronic capability. The systems in question was a Tor-M1 working independently.
3) Warship issue was due to the test of a new autonomous seeker. I am afraid such things can happen. Last I Checked, the Americans are also vulnerable to such issues. I doubt anyone has more experience in the military sector than them, if they are susceptible, then rest of us will be too.

You are using these incidents out of proper context.





These issues can occur anywhere:


imagen.aspx



Norway aims to refloat Spanish-built frigate that sank after collision

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/wor...te-that-sank-after-collision/50000262-3864409



You choose the strategy based on needs, so your statement is basically like saying "You drink water when thirsty".




"except some", I hope you realise those capabilities alone highlight a true, robust and serious offensive arm. Here, listen to the Israeli expert Uzi Rubin regarding Iran's war missiles/drone strategies:







Although Turkey has produced some items of good quality, I'd advise you not to get carried away. You are still far from being able to produce some of those capabilities Iran has for example designing own submarine, producing long range air defence, long range ballistic missiles, long range cruise missiles, jet powered stealthy UCAV etc. Furthermore, Turkey has far to go in becoming self sufficient in the engine sector, ranging from navy to aerospace.




Frankly, one could say exactly the same regarding Turkey. Much of these claims that Turks (alone) make regarding their capability is just that, claims.

I dont think he will get the alert if you dont tag him
 
@Mithridates @skyshadow @SubWater

Would you brothers be interested in creating a thread in the middle east section/military forum about Iran's electro-optical technologies? Similar to what I did in the Iran Naval engine thread, if you could compile Iranian infrared etc systems with information it would be great. If it is easier, you can focus on the relatively longer ranged systems.

Here is one link that has some information but I am sure there is a lot more.

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/799030/زنجیره-سامانه-های-اپتیک-نیروهای-مسلح-کامل-شد-کارنامه-محصول
 
@Mithridates @skyshadow @SubWater

Would you brothers be interested in creating a thread in the middle east section/military forum about Iran's electro-optical technologies? Similar to what I did in the Iran Naval engine thread, if you could compile Iranian infrared etc systems with information it would be great. If it is easier, you can focus on the relatively longer ranged systems.

Here is one link that has some information but I am sure there is a lot more.

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/799030/زنجیره-سامانه-های-اپتیک-نیروهای-مسلح-کامل-شد-کارنامه-محصول
ok bro i will look into it.
 
My friend,

This comment makes zero logical sense. Why would the person refer to quantity in terms of number of people working in factories?
The reason he says Iranian defense industries are larger, is to emphasize that it will be harder to destroy. Unrelated to project numbers, just sheer size.
 
The reason he says Iranian defense industries are larger, is to emphasize that it will be harder to destroy. Unrelated to project numbers, just sheer size.

"Iran continues to produce missiles that can reach Israeli territory, Kochavi said, explaining the Iranian military industry is much larger than all the military industries of Israel combined, allowing for them to produce more precise and long-range rockets to threaten the Israeli home front."

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/i...chavi-conflict-with-iran-a-possibility-612079

He is talking in the context of production, where are you getting your "harder to destroy" from?
 
Israel's projects in the sectors you mention are limited in number. Furthermore, even granting that Iran produces many missiles, I hope you'll realise those are still a big part of defence industries in general.
I have to disagree. Israel is top tier in those sectors. Elta radars, python and derby air to air missiles, EW,LITENING targeting pods are all exported internationally and are amongst the top of their class.

Israel creates a ton of ballistic missile variants as well, it's just that we don't produce an awful lot of them, unless we export them for profit.

This did not really answer my question. I asked for a proper yardstick in order to measure what you described. Furthermore, give me an example of what you mean.
Take for example Israeli Arrow 3 and David's Sling, do you have anything that can compete with those systems? In terms of ballistic missile defense and in terms of air defense in general?

Or Israeli Merkava, Eitan and Carmel APC/IFV?
Spike ATGM? Hermes 900/ Eitan drones? Harop & Green Dragon drones?

"Iran continues to produce missiles that can reach Israeli territory, Kochavi said, explaining the Iranian military industry is much larger than all the military industries of Israel combined, allowing for them to produce more precise and long-range rockets to threaten the Israeli home front."

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/i...chavi-conflict-with-iran-a-possibility-612079

He is talking in the context of production, where are you getting your "harder to destroy" from?
I might have been wrong there. Sorry my bad.
There is no argue the Iranian defense industries is bigger, there's only so much 9 million people country can produce compared to 80 million.

However I am pretty sure we have more military projects than Iran, I'm too lazy to look up for numbers though
 
I have to disagree. Israel is top tier in those sectors. Elta radars, python and derby air to air missiles, EW,LITENING targeting pods are all exported internationally and are amongst the top of their class.

Israel creates a ton of ballistic missile variants as well, it's just that we don't produce an awful lot of them, unless we export them for profit.

I am not disagreeing with you in terms export etc, but my statement was regarding the sheer number of products. No doubt Israel produces good systems, but overall, Iranian defence industry is producing more systems.

Take for example Israeli Arrow 3 and David's Sling, do you have anything that can compete with those systems? In terms of ballistic missile defense and in terms of air defense in general?

Well we cannot do a comparison with ballistic missiles defence because Iran has not developed any. We have to compare like with like.

Or Israeli Merkava, Eitan and Carmel APC/IFV?
Spike ATGM? Hermes 900/ Eitan drones? Harop & Green Dragon drones?

My question is, if you wish to claim those are of higher quality, for example your UAVs. How would we measure that? For example what have Iranian UAV achieved in practise which falls short of their Israeli counterparts?

I am not trying to be irritating, but if we want to discuss something like quality, we need to make sure we are using a yardstick that we both agree on.
 
I am not disagreeing with you in terms export etc, but my statement was regarding the sheer number of products. No doubt Israel produces good systems, but overall, Iranian defence industry is producing more systems.
By more systems, you mean more variants of systems? Like different types of tanks and drones etc?

Well we cannot do a comparison with ballistic missiles defence because Iran has not developed any. We have to compare like with like
This technology is very hard to achieve.

My question is, if you wish to claim those are of higher quality, for example your UAVs. How would we measure that? For example what have Iranian UAV achieved in practise which falls short of their Israeli counterparts?
Range(Both fuel wise and connection wise), altitude, speed, optics, payload capacity,endurance, etc etc.
Those are all fields that Israeli drones are superior to their Iranian counterparts, and basically to any drones of the same class.
 
By more systems, you mean more variants of systems? Like different types of tanks and drones etc?

Yes.

This technology is very hard to achieve.

Sure, but the point is trying to compare systems in same category which we cannot do here.

Range(Both fuel wise and connection wise), altitude, speed

Can you give me an example of an Israeli UAV you wish to compare, also make sure to tell me what engine it uses.
 
Can you give me an example of an Israeli UAV you wish to compare, also make sure to tell me what engine it uses.
Those are specifications of the Eitan drone.
SmartSelect_20200612-001505_Chrome.jpg

A drone from 2004.
Its rival is the IAIO Fortos, intruduced in 2020, with the same design.

Actually I misread. It wasn't introduced in 2020, it was supposed to but the project is believed to be dropped.
Screenshot_20200612-002206_Chrome.jpg


As you can see range is significantly lower, service ceiling is significantly lower, endurance is potentionally lower.
 
Those are specifications of the Eitan drone.
View attachment 640986
A drone from 2004.
Its rival is the IAIO Fortos, intruduced in 2020, with the same design.

Actually I misread. It wasn't introduced in 2020, it was supposed to but the project is believed to be dropped.
View attachment 640988

Both those systems use foreign engines so it is not really a wise comparison. Does Israel have any jet powered UAV we can compare?
 

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