Iranian Arabs

[Surenas]

That's what we tell them as well. They, persians, and kurds can pass as arabs, and in the east, they look like afghans, Pashthuns and tajiks, specially.

Kurds are the most fair skinned/eyed group in Iran. Ask anyone who visited Iranian Kurdistan. They are also genetically more homogenous than most other people in Iran. You should bear in mind that Iranian Azerbaijanis cluster most with Iranian Kurds.

 

[al-Hasani]

If you compare to Europe or East Asia indeed, but there are significant regional differences. I think, If I've to make a list, Persians cluster most with:

1) Kurds
2) Azerbaijanis/Armenians
3) North Afghanistan/Tajikistan

I agree. But those are all immediate regions. All those people also live in Iran and are Iranian peoples. So obviously the closeness will be much greater. All I am saying is that all people of the ME in general cluster more with each other than outsiders and that people can pass as each other more often than some would like to admit. That's all. I am not talking about history, culture, language etc. here. So please don't misunderstand me.

Even those Persians and Lurs that live next to Arabs and the Arab world?

 

[ASQ-1918]

You have to look at the meaning of the word, and that its probably nothing else than coincidence. Maybe you can give an evidence of its usage in civilizations connected to Sanskrit if you believe so. Its original usage in history is by Turko-Mongols, and its appereance in Iran and Indian sub-continent is also connected to Turko-Mongols.

A while ago we were discussing the etymology of "Apar" word in Turkish section (a word which exists in Azerbaijani and a number of Turkic languages in Central Asia and Siberia), a fellow member brought an example from Middle Persian, where the same word also existed. On the other hand, Turkic "Apar" ("Alıp + Bar" fetch and go) and middle Persian Apar were two different words.

 

[al-Hasani]

Kurds are the most fair skinned/eyed group in Iran. Ask anyone who visited Iranian Kurdistan. They are also genetically more homogenous than most other people in Iran. You should bear in mind that Iranian Azerbaijanis cluster most with Iranian Kurds.

I always thought that Kurds were far from a homogenous people and they are also spread across the ME and have many different "looks". But that's just my opinion.

The Kurds as an ethnic group appear in the medieval period. The Kurdish people are believed to be of heterogenous origins[49] combining a number of earlier tribal or ethnic groups[50] including Median,[49][50][51][52]Lullubi,[53]Guti,[53]Cyrtians,[54]Carduchi.[55] They have also absorbed some elements from Semitic,[50][56][57][58][59]Turkic[60][61][62][63] and Armenian people.[50][64][65][66][67][68] According to J.P. Mallory, the original Gutians precede the arrival of Indo-Iranian peoples (of which the Kurds are one) by some 1500 years.[69] This argument is seconded by F. Hennerbichlers theory which reassigns the ethnic Iranian origin of Kurds (traditionally considered Indo-European) to a people of predominantly unknown ancient Middle Eastern stock, in particular to indigenous Neolithic Northern Fertile Crescent aborigines.[70] This hypothesis is supported by the tentative linguistic identification of Kurds as a people "Iranianized in several waves by militarily organized elites of immigrants from Central Asia", tentatively ascribing it to carriers of the Y-Dna haplogroup R1a1.[70]

 

[Surenas]

Hasani, I'll guess many people on that list are originally Iranian. For instance Salehi was born in Iraq, but in a Iranian family.

I always thought that Kurds were far from a homogenous people and they are also spread across the ME and have many different "looks". But that's just my opinion.

Most Kurdish people, whether in Iran, Syria, Iraq or Turkey, cluster with each other. From all people in the region, they cluster second to Persians and Azerbaijanis. You have a lot of different looks among Kurds, but they generally are the lightest group in Iran.

My Kurdish family is more fair skinned than my Persian family.

 

[al-Hasani]

Hasani, I'll guess many people on that list are originally Iranian. For instance Salehi was born in Iraq, but in a Iranian family.



Most Kurdish people, whether in Iran, Syria, Iraq or Turkey, cluster with each other. From all people in the region, they cluster second to Persians and Azerbaijanis. You have a lot of different looks among Kurds, but they generally are the lightest group in Iran.

My Kurdish family is more fair skinned than my Persian family.

I can't dispute or approve that since I simply don't know about the overall DNA of Kurds other than the haplogroups where they are very mixed. The J haplogroup seems to be the dominant one though (J1 and J2).
What do you say about this? It correspondents to the diversity of the haplogroups found among current day Kurds and to the population movements and history of today's Kurdish region quite well.

The Kurds as an ethnic group appear in the medieval period. The Kurdish people are believed to be of heterogenous origins[49] combining a number of earlier tribal or ethnic groups[50] including Median,[49][50][51][52]Lullubi,[53]Guti,[53]Cyrtians,[54]Carduchi.[55] They have also absorbed some elements from Semitic,[50][56][57][58][59]Turkic[60][61][62][63] and Armenian people.[50][64][65][66][67][68] According to J.P. Mallory, the original Gutians precede the arrival of Indo-Iranian peoples (of which the Kurds are one) by some 1500 years.[69] This argument is seconded by F. Hennerbichlers theory which reassigns the ethnic Iranian origin of Kurds (traditionally considered Indo-European) to a people of predominantly unknown ancient Middle Eastern stock, in particular to indigenous Neolithic Northern Fertile Crescent aborigines.[70] This hypothesis is supported by the tentative linguistic identification of Kurds as a people "Iranianized in several waves by militarily organized elites of immigrants from Central Asia", tentatively ascribing it to carriers of the Y-Dna haplogroup R1a1.[70]

Kurdish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rmi5]

Kurds are the most fair skinned/eyed group in Iran. Ask anyone who visited Iranian Kurdistan. They are also genetically more homogenous than most other people in Iran. You should bear in mind that Iranian Azerbaijanis cluster most with Iranian Kurds.

Kurds are not homogenous. That is BS.
BTW, Azernaijani turks in the south are almost genetically the same as north. closest groups to us are caucasians, anatolian turks, and south caspian people (Mazandarani, and Gilak people). Mazandarani, and Gilaks are the closest Iranian groups to us. although they are not even fully iranian, and they are most closely related to caucasians from Azerbaijan republic, and Georgia than Iranians.

 

[Surenas]

Hasani:

In order to investigate the origins and relationships of Kurdish-speaking groups, mtDNA HV1 sequences, eleven Y chromosome bi-allelic markers, and 9 Y-STR loci were analyzed among three Kurdish groups: Zazaki and Kurmanji speakers from Turkey, and Kurmanji speakers from Georgia. When compared with published data from other Kurdish groups and from European, Caucasian, and West and Central Asian groups, Kurdish groups are most similar genetically to other West Asian groups, and most distant from Central Asian groups, for both mtDNA and the Y-chromosome. However, Kurdish groups show a closer relationship with European groups than with Caucasian groups based on mtDNA, but the opposite based on the Y-chromosome, indicating some differences in their maternal and paternal histories. The genetic data indicate that the Georgian Kurdish group experienced a bottleneck effect during their migration to the Caucasus, and that they have not had detectable admixture with their geographic neighbours in Georgia. Our results also do not support the hypothesis of the origin of the Zazaki -speaking group being in northern Iran; genetically they are more similar to other Kurdish groups.

Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: mtDNA and Y chromosomes of Kurdish groups

Kurds are not homogenous. That is BS.
BTW, Azernaijani turks in the south are almost genetically the same as north. closest groups to us are caucasians, anatolian turks, and south caspian people (Mazandarani, and Gilak people). Mazandarani, and Gilaks are the closest Iranian groups to us. although they are not even fully iranian, and they are most closely related to caucasians from Azerbaijan republic, and Georgia than Iranians.

Source, do you have source for your nonsense?

 

[al-Hasani]

Hasani:



Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: mtDNA and Y chromosomes of Kurdish groups



Source, do you have source for your nonsense?

The date of that is from 2005. So quite old by now. But what is said there is not really much different from what was written in my quote. Basically, like with all other ME people the indigenous West Asian component is the most dominant one. I think that it is fair to say that Kurds are not a homogenous people but a heterogenous people. That is at least widely acknowledged. That does not mean that they do no cluster with each other obviously.

Based on the Y-DNA haplogroups I am inclined to be of the same opinion as J.P. Mallory when it comes to the stock of the Kurds. It also makes perfect sense.

 

[rmi5]

South Caspian People:
http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/nasidze.pdf

 

[Surenas]

South Caspian People:
http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/nasidze.pdf

From your source:

Specifically, the Mazandarani and Gilaki groups are located near each other, in a cluster contain- ing other Iranian and West Asian populations. Thus, with respect to patterns of mtDNA variation, the South Cas- pian groups resemble their geographic and linguistic neighbors, namely other Iranian groups.

Analyses of mtDNA haplogroups further support the close relationship between South Caspian and Iranian groups. Pairwise Fst comparisons, based on HV1 se- quences within haplogroups, indicate that the Gilaki and Mazandarani groups are closer to Iranian groups than to populations from the South Caucasus region (Figure 3).

 

[SinaG]

The famous as-Sadr family also has many members in Iran. Musa as-Sadr himself was born and raised in Iran.

Mohammad Khatami the former president of Iran is also married to Musa as-Sadr's niece, Zohreh Sadeghi.

 

[al-Hasani]

@SinaG

I know that Khomeini, Khameini, Al-Sadr family etc. are Sadah families. But I did not know that Khatami was that as well. Do you know if they are "new" arrivals meaning the sadah families that settled in Iran during the Safavid era or if they predate that as some Iranian Sadah families do?

Also is it a requirement to be the Supreme Leader to be a Sayyid or Ashraf? Or is it just a coincidence that all Grand Ayatollah's have been that?



@Surenas don't tell me that those gentleman's could not fit anywhere in the Arab world. Notice the white turbans. Meaning that they are NOT from Sadah families. So probably not Iranian Arabs. Those are apparently Iranian Sunni Muslims btw.

 

[Surenas]

The Kurds are considered an ancient autochthonous population (Kinnane 1970; Pelletiere 1984) who may even be the descendants of the shepherds who first populated the highlands during the Neolithic period (Comas et al. 2000). Although Kurdistan came under the successive dominion of various conquerors, including the Armenians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottoman Turks, and Iraqis (Kinnane 1970), they may be the only western Asian group that remained relatively unmixed by the influx of invaders, because of their protected and inhospitable mountainous homeland (Pelletiere 1984). The Y chromosome variation of Muslim Kurds falls within the spectrum observed in other populations (Turks and Armenians) living in the same region. The three populations are closer to Jews and Arabs than to Europeans. This is in good agreement with data on classical markers (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). However, on the basis of mtDNA polymorphisms, Kurds were reported to be more closely related to Europeans than to Middle Easterners (Comas et al. 2000).

The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East

 

[rmi5]

From your source:

Read the article completely. It contains data. it says that they are more close to south caucasians from paternal side, and they are close to Iranians from maternal side. Actually, it has been their tradition to take women outside their community and bring them into their families, and tribes. BTW, datas are available as well.
The Fst is 0.016 and 0.010 between Mazandaranis and S. Caucasus, which shows very close relation while it is 0.084 and 0.011 between them and Iranians.