Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Stryker1982]

Every single time the Iranian media named first Bavar "Iranian S-300" and now "Iranian S-300", the public will automatically believe this is an S-300/400 copy, and Iran already has S-300s, i really dont understand the writers logic

Theirs alot of dumb writers that can't think of an AD system without S-300 in their mind even though just through images alone it looks nothing alike. They have no way of conceptualizing it other than saying S-300 or S-400 which for them is meant to say how great the system is, but this is not nessasary.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630492327490756610

 

[sanel1412]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630504884817600512

 

[Mehdipersian]

Underground bunker for air defence

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630530486874304519

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630509118636130306

 

[Sineva]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630517110320373761

 

[Flotilla]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630517110320373761

This kind of radar of continuous wave are ideal for CIWS aboard IRIS and IRGC navy ships.

 

[Stryker1982]

Cool stuff

 

[Sineva]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1630580387620573184

 

[Arash1991]

I would like to ask a hypothetical question:

would it be possible to convert a quasi-ballistic missile or a hypersonic missile or some kind of ballistic missile that can definitely be controlled and is very fast into a super long-range air defense system?
The idea behind this would be to track a target, e.g. a bomber or a fighter jet in a distance of 1500km to 2000 km with an OTH radar or satellite and then let the missile or hypersonic missile shoot at the position. The missile would then have its own powerful active radar system that once in range could then detect and lock on to the target and track it, and once the enemy initiates jamming action the radar would automatically switch to passive mode and track the jammer.
(Similar to the phenix missile).

There are 2 cases here from my point of view:
1.) Optimal case: Hypersonic or quasi-ballistic missile is in communication with the radar almost during the whole flight and can be steered by the stationary radar or by the satellite constantly in the direction of the target because it delivers trajectory correction data which allow the missile to correct in the direction of the target with an accuracy of a few hundred meters or a few kilometers. Once in range of the missile's own radar, the missile will then switch to the target by its own tracking radar.

2) Hardship case: Rocket has no contact with the ground station after launch. In this case the missile would have to remember the last position and the direction of the target.. A hypersonic missile would need about 6 to 7 minutes for 1500km range. A target flying at 2000kmh would then be a maximum of 250km away from its original location. It would still with worst setup still in radar detection range of the Hypersonic missile when the Hypersonic Missile arrives close to the target.

Here there are at least 3 conditions wich came in my mind wich must be fulfilled now:

1. the target must be in the radar cone of the active rocket radar after a certain flight phase.
2. the missile must still be maneuverable enough to hit the target.
3. the target must be distinguishable and identifiable among many other targets (potentially including civilian traffic).

I have made the following scenario calculation:
Assumption: Hypersonic missile:
Speed 15.000 km/h
Altitude FL: 10.000km
Altitude HR: 30.000km
Takes about 6 to 7 minutes for 1500km (Tehran - Tel Aviv)

The hypersonic missile radar:
The radar of the hypersonic missile can be designed very powerful. The hypersonic rocket will draw the electrical energy for this from the engine, which should provide more than enough energy.
In my opinion, the radar can also be set significantly higher in terms of its electrical performance than a comparable radar of a fighter jet. It can be supplied with so much energy that components would burn out after only e.g. 20 minutes. Basically, the radar only has to stay alive for a maximum of 8 or 10 minutes. For this reason, you can certainly be very generous with the dimensioning of the radar. In this way, ranges of 400km or 300km would certainly be feasible.

Now to the Scenario:
From Tehran, a hypersonic air defense missile (callsign: HR) is launched to intercept a plane flying over Tel Aviv. HR has a own radar with a detection range of 400 km and a 70-degree opening angle. Lockon Range is 200km.The radar constantly emits a cone-shaped signal that follows HR's flight path and can detect any object within its range.

The target, a Zionist Fighterplane callsign: FL, is flying at a speed of 2,000 km/h and an altitude of 10 km in a northwesterly direction from over Tel Aviv, which makes it almost 90 degree angle to HR's flight path. the greatest probability for FL to escape the radar beam cone before FL is within the radar beam area.

Red arrow is FL`s flight path in comparision to the radar beam angle of HR. It is probably the best position for FL to flee from radar beam.

FL is first detected by HR's radar after 4 minutes and 18 seconds from HR's launch, during which time FL had traveled a distance of 133.32 km from his original location. At this point, HR had traveled a distance of 1,125 km towards Tel Aviv.

To intercept FL, HR needs to make a turn with a radius of 300 km. If HR makes this turn at its maximum speed of 15,000 km/h, it would need to endure a force of 4.45 G. (8 tonnes HR weight). When in Range Radar can lock on target and go for the last hunt.

Assuming that the missile's guidance system is accurate and that FL's course and speed do not change, HR will reach FL's position and intercept it after round about 7 minutes from the launch. By that time, FL would have traveled a total distance of 210 km from its starting point.

This scenario highlights the strategic advantage of hypersonic air defense missiles in intercepting fast-moving targets. However, it also underscores the importance of maintaining a constantly evolving defense strategy that can adapt to changing threats and technologies.

It would be much easier to Intercept a target flying with Mach 0.98.
Most of the Planes, even fighter aircraft never fly with afterburner.

This scenario was calculated and simulated, The Speed, altidude and calculations should be correct. If somebody interested PN me I will send calculations.

With this calculation we theoretically proofed that:
1. the target must be in the radar cone of the active rocket radar after a certain flight phase.
Even if Target is detected one single time and an not be tracked after Hypersonic Air defence missile launch, when the Hypersonic missile arrives position, the target will still be in radar cone range

2. the missile must still be maneuverable enough to hit the target.
Yes: with a weight of 8 tonnes (Kinshal missile is about 7 tonnes) missile will pull maximum 5 G for a 300km turn radius. Hypersonic missiles can generally pull up to 15 G constiniously.

3. the target must be distinguishable and identifiable among many other targets (potentially including civilian traffic)
No specific solution Maybe combination with AI possible?

Any Ideas on that?

 

[hadi1990]

America can Crush Iran easily in a war, the only thing preventing that is that the cowardly effete baby boomers in charge of the US government don't want to see the bloodshed of taking combat casualties and indeed have a weird fetish about combat casualties and collateral damage.

man, yes no one can claim a superpower ever in history has existed stronger than US .... but but but it is not alone!!! and cannot do what ever she wants .... first Iran has accumulated enough strong cards to prevent the lethal US superiority from going to action with it ...in a smart and brave and long and God blessed effort Iran became the first third world nation to do that... now Iran is finalizing a new level also exclusive to no other third world member where Iran can survive an attack by US... Barberic US only listens to power and Iran mastered and possessed the required ... to fire enough missiles at ain al asad without a strike back from the mega super power!!
start thinking wisely in a new world era and stop thinking of war idiots!!!

 

[Muhammed45]

Cruise/drone hunting Majid AD system.

I wonder if those Hydraulic lifters are able to keep the vehicle balanced with horizon surface? If yes, then it will be great. As a result, it would be able to prepare for engagement in any condition/terrain.

 

[Messerschmitt]

^ Tactical Sayyad

^ 3rd Khordad

^ Mersad-16

 

[Muhammed45]

As i had already predicted, F-14s of IRIAF played a vital role in air defense exercise. The best airborne radar to watch incoming aerial threats e.g. cruise missiles.

 

[TheImmortal]

I would like to ask a hypothetical question:

would it be possible to convert a quasi-ballistic missile or a hypersonic missile or some kind of ballistic missile that can definitely be controlled and is very fast into a super long-range air defense system?
The idea behind this would be to track a target, e.g. a bomber or a fighter jet in a distance of 1500km to 2000 km with an OTH radar or satellite and then let the missile or hypersonic missile shoot at the position. The missile would then have its own powerful active radar system that once in range could then detect and lock on to the target and track it, and once the enemy initiates jamming action the radar would automatically switch to passive mode and track the jammer.
(Similar to the phenix missile).

There are 2 cases here from my point of view:
1.) Optimal case: Hypersonic or quasi-ballistic missile is in communication with the radar almost during the whole flight and can be steered by the stationary radar or by the satellite constantly in the direction of the target because it delivers trajectory correction data which allow the missile to correct in the direction of the target with an accuracy of a few hundred meters or a few kilometers. Once in range of the missile's own radar, the missile will then switch to the target by its own tracking radar.

2) Hardship case: Rocket has no contact with the ground station after launch. In this case the missile would have to remember the last position and the direction of the target.. A hypersonic missile would need about 6 to 7 minutes for 1500km range. A target flying at 2000kmh would then be a maximum of 250km away from its original location. It would still with worst setup still in radar detection range of the Hypersonic missile when the Hypersonic Missile arrives close to the target.

Here there are at least 3 conditions wich came in my mind wich must be fulfilled now:

1. the target must be in the radar cone of the active rocket radar after a certain flight phase.
2. the missile must still be maneuverable enough to hit the target.
3. the target must be distinguishable and identifiable among many other targets (potentially including civilian traffic).

I have made the following scenario calculation:
Assumption: Hypersonic missile:
Speed 15.000 km/h
Altitude FL: 10.000km
Altitude HR: 30.000km
Takes about 6 to 7 minutes for 1500km (Tehran - Tel Aviv)

The hypersonic missile radar:
The radar of the hypersonic missile can be designed very powerful. The hypersonic rocket will draw the electrical energy for this from the engine, which should provide more than enough energy.
In my opinion, the radar can also be set significantly higher in terms of its electrical performance than a comparable radar of a fighter jet. It can be supplied with so much energy that components would burn out after only e.g. 20 minutes. Basically, the radar only has to stay alive for a maximum of 8 or 10 minutes. For this reason, you can certainly be very generous with the dimensioning of the radar. In this way, ranges of 400km or 300km would certainly be feasible.

Now to the Scenario:
From Tehran, a hypersonic air defense missile (callsign: HR) is launched to intercept a plane flying over Tel Aviv. HR has a own radar with a detection range of 400 km and a 70-degree opening angle. Lockon Range is 200km.The radar constantly emits a cone-shaped signal that follows HR's flight path and can detect any object within its range.

The target, a Zionist Fighterplane callsign: FL, is flying at a speed of 2,000 km/h and an altitude of 10 km in a northwesterly direction from over Tel Aviv, which makes it almost 90 degree angle to HR's flight path. the greatest probability for FL to escape the radar beam cone before FL is within the radar beam area.

View attachment 918247
Red arrow is FL`s flight path in comparision to the radar beam angle of HR. It is probably the best position for FL to flee from radar beam.

FL is first detected by HR's radar after 4 minutes and 18 seconds from HR's launch, during which time FL had traveled a distance of 133.32 km from his original location. At this point, HR had traveled a distance of 1,125 km towards Tel Aviv.

To intercept FL, HR needs to make a turn with a radius of 300 km. If HR makes this turn at its maximum speed of 15,000 km/h, it would need to endure a force of 4.45 G. (8 tonnes HR weight). When in Range Radar can lock on target and go for the last hunt.

Assuming that the missile's guidance system is accurate and that FL's course and speed do not change, HR will reach FL's position and intercept it after round about 7 minutes from the launch. By that time, FL would have traveled a total distance of 210 km from its starting point.

This scenario highlights the strategic advantage of hypersonic air defense missiles in intercepting fast-moving targets. However, it also underscores the importance of maintaining a constantly evolving defense strategy that can adapt to changing threats and technologies.

It would be much easier to Intercept a target flying with Mach 0.98.
Most of the Planes, even fighter aircraft never fly with afterburner.

This scenario was calculated and simulated, The Speed, altidude and calculations should be correct. If somebody interested PN me I will send calculations.

With this calculation we theoretically proofed that:
1. the target must be in the radar cone of the active rocket radar after a certain flight phase.
Even if Target is detected one single time and an not be tracked after Hypersonic Air defence missile launch, when the Hypersonic missile arrives position, the target will still be in radar cone range

2. the missile must still be maneuverable enough to hit the target.
Yes: with a weight of 8 tonnes (Kinshal missile is about 7 tonnes) missile will pull maximum 5 G for a 300km turn radius. Hypersonic missiles can generally pull up to 15 G constiniously.

3. the target must be distinguishable and identifiable among many other targets (potentially including civilian traffic)
No specific solution Maybe combination with AI possible?

Any Ideas on that?

There is so many things wrong with these assumptions I don’t even know where to start.

But I will try:

The idea behind this would be to track a target, e.g. a bomber or a fighter jet in a distance of 1500km to 2000 km with an OTH radar or satellite and then let the missile or hypersonic missile shoot at the position.

OTH cannot be used for providing targeting data. The OTH would give you a very general location where the target is at this time. Your purposed missile assuming it used SARH guidance wouldn’t be able to locate the object since it could be in a zone spanning many many KMs. OTH would need to tell a targeting radar to hone in on the sector and spot the exact coordinates and tracking, at which point if it’s an active radar than the fighter jet will know it’s being illuminated and will start taking precautions.

The missile would then have its own powerful active radar system that once in range could then detect and lock on to the target and track it, and once the enemy initiates jamming action the radar would automatically switch to passive mode and track the jammer.
(Similar to the phenix missile).

“Very powerful active radar”. What radar would that be? There is only a few types of guidance radars used in air defense missiles.

You can’t just say “create” a radar that will be super duper strong. It doesn’t work that way.

There are 2 cases here from my point of view:
1.) Optimal case: Hypersonic or quasi-ballistic missile is in communication with the radar almost during the whole flight and can be steered by the stationary radar or by the satellite constantly in the direction of the target because it delivers trajectory correction data which allow the missile to correct in the direction of the target with an accuracy of a few hundred meters or a few kilometers. Once in range of the missile's own radar, the missile will then switch to the target by its own tracking radar.

There is no radar in the world that provides targeting data at 1500KM. You are confusing early warning radars with search radars with targeting radars.

2) Hardship case: Rocket has no contact with the ground station after launch. In this case the missile would have to remember the last position and the direction of the target.. A hypersonic missile would need about 6 to 7 minutes for 1500km range.

You do realize at 1500KM and 6-7 minutes of time a fighter jet can making nearly infinite amount of incremental changes? You are assuming it flies on a linear path and doesn’t detect any of the radiation you are shooting at it to find it. Very very optimistic assumptions.

A target flying at 2000kmh would then be a maximum of 250km away from its original location.

only 250KM away, you act like that’s not a big deal. Very huge deal. Very difficult for a ground based to track a <3m2 object from 200KM let alone anything that is considered “stealth”.

the target must be distinguishable and identifiable among many other targets (potentially including civilian traffic).

You are not detecting let’s say a <5m2 RCS object further than 250KM away and you certainly are not tracking a <1m2 RCS object further than 100KM away.

To put it in perspective, a 5th Gen fighter theoretically with a robust air defense network can be tracked and targeted between 50-75KM away. This assumes the VLO fighter jet doesn’t somehow get compromised.

The hypersonic missile radar:
The radar of the hypersonic missile can be designed very powerful. The hypersonic rocket will draw the electrical energy for this from the engine, which should provide more than enough energy.
In my opinion, the radar can also be set significantly higher in terms of its electrical performance than a comparable radar of a fighter jet. It can be supplied with so much energy that components would burn out after only e.g. 20 minutes. Basically, the radar only has to stay alive for a maximum of 8 or 10 minutes. For this reason, you can certainly be very generous with the dimensioning of the radar. In this way, ranges of 400km or 300km would certainly be feasible.

I don’t think you realize how these radars work, power consumption, and theoretical radar detection range in relation to a LO object (stealth).

Now to the Scenario:
From Tehran, a hypersonic air defense missile (callsign: HR) is launched to intercept a plane flying over Tel Aviv. HR has a own radar with a detection range of 400 km and a 70-degree opening angle. Lockon Range is 200km.The radar constantly emits a cone-shaped signal that follows HR's flight path and can detect any object within its range.

The target, a Zionist Fighterplane callsign: FL, is flying at a speed of 2,000 km/h and an altitude of 10 km in a northwesterly direction from over Tel Aviv, which makes it almost 90 degree angle to HR's flight path. the greatest probability for FL to escape the radar beam cone before FL is within the radar beam area.

View attachment 918247
Red arrow is FL`s flight path in comparision to the radar beam angle of HR. It is probably the best position for FL to flee from radar beam.

FL is first detected by HR's radar after 4 minutes and 18 seconds from HR's launch, during which time FL had traveled a distance of 133.32 km from his original location. At this point, HR had traveled a distance of 1,125 km towards Tel Aviv.

To intercept FL, HR needs to make a turn with a radius of 300 km. If HR makes this turn at its maximum speed of 15,000 km/h, it would need to endure a force of 4.45 G. (8 tonnes HR weight). When in Range Radar can lock on target and go for the last hunt.

Assuming that the missile's guidance system is accurate and that FL's course and speed do not change, HR will reach FL's position and intercept it after round about 7 minutes from the launch. By that time, FL would have traveled a total distance of 210 km from its starting point.

Fantastical Sci-Fi story you wrote there. Straight out of a Hollywood movie.

This scenario highlights the strategic advantage of hypersonic air defense missiles in intercepting fast-moving targets. However, it also underscores the importance of maintaining a constantly evolving defense strategy that can adapt to changing threats and technologies.

Regular air defense missiles are already very fast (Mach 5+), the issue has never been air defense missiles are TOO SLOW, the issue is an air defense missile has only X amount of KE it can expend (bleed) re adjusting to the targets evasive maneuvering. Laws of physics state the AD missile has finite energy (fuel).

That is why intercepting maneuvering ballistic missiles is so difficult because the AD missile has only X amount of energy it can “bleed” in f-pole before it no longer can reliably intercept the target. So if the maneuvering object exceeds this threshold, interception fails. This holds true for BMs, CMs, aircraft, etc.

With this calculation we theoretically proofed that:
1. the target must be in the radar cone of the active rocket radar after a certain flight phase.
Even if Target is detected one single time and an not be tracked after Hypersonic Air defence missile launch, when the Hypersonic missile arrives position, the target will still be in radar cone range

This radar doesn’t exist. Closest thing to such a radar would be a quantum radar which is still in early early early r&d and would be the size of a bus and extremely power intensive and expensive. Let alone miniaturizing it into an AD missile.

Your proposed missile is Sci-Fi. It would be too expensive to field and assuming it could even be built, would be used mostly to target other hypersonis (likely nuclear ones) not aircraft.

2. the missile must still be maneuverable enough to hit the target.
Yes: with a weight of 8 tonnes (Kinshal missile is about 7 tonnes) missile will pull maximum 5 G for a 300km turn radius. Hypersonic missiles can generally pull up to 15 G constiniously.

Kinzhal is a CM that doesn’t maneuver much, it flies below the surface radar detection (ie under 500 ft) and at Mach 12 making detection extremely difficult.

Hypersonic CMs use different types of engines than Hypersonic BMs that use glide + engines in upper atmosphere to accelerate.

Hypersonics pull G’s in the upper atmosphere close to space were it is thin and pressure is low.

If you try to pull 15Gs with hypersonic speeds under 40,000 ft you are gonna vaporize the missile. No material in the world can withstand those pressure forces. Unless you are going to also reinvent physics like an Inter dimensional being from the 4th dimension.

Any Ideas on that?

Your idea is far fetch and technically impossible at this point in time and likely well into the future.

Even if such a missile could be built, it would be very expensive per missile and the cost benefit ratio versus current ADs would completely negate it.

The issue you have is you are not understanding what limits AD missiles (size, fuel, and cost) vs the limitations of psychics ie radar technology at this point in time.