Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Shams313]

Guys, how long would it take for Iran to fully understand and 'reverse engineer' the S300pmu2? Who knows who has the software and codes.. Iran needs to make their own version. Even if it's just the software, and start mass producing our own version.

They have their own coder....own software specialist...doubt?

look at the interface.......software is not the major problem....main problem is mechanical terms....& electronics...

 

[IR-TR]

They have their own coder....own software specialist...doubt? View attachment 216110
look at the interface.......software is not the major problem....main problem is mechanical....& electronics...

Yeah but now that we get the s300 from Russia, how long would it take to take it apart and learn to make it ourselves?

 

[Shams313]

Yeah but now that we get the s300 from Russia, how long would it take to take it apart and learn to make it ourselves?

i can't ans ur question....ask soheil...
bavar-373 already based on s-300 with a lot of change and improvement...iran will never reverse engineer s-300 pmu2...just ,will add its special features in it which r absent...personally i think there is no extreme features which pmu-2 have comparing b-373...if there then it will be done

 

[SOHEIL]

Guys, how long would it take for Iran to fully understand and 'reverse engineer' the S300pmu2? Who knows who has the software and codes.. Iran needs to make their own version. Even if it's just the software, and start mass producing our own version.

Under final tests ... all of the subsystems are ready ...

is a long time to wait, I want to see

Yeah but now that we get the s300 from Russia, how long would it take to take it apart and learn to make it ourselves?

We got S-300 from ********* long time ago !

 

[IR-TR]

Under final tests ... all of the subsystems are ready ...

We got S-300 from ********* long time ago !

Good good. This news pleases me! Thanks for the info.

 

[gambit]

Bro, I read a few articles on this written by ex high up US officials and military experts. Believe me, they all said it would take many WEEKS of intensive bombings.

Which we can do.

See, you can't just bomb the nuclear sites.

Not yet.

There is nothing secret about it. It all starts (this is military logic),...

Which I doubt you have.

...with taking out Iran's retaliatory capabilities, meaning taking out it's entire fleet, air force and missile sites.

Wrong, we do not have to do 'entire'. If you want to lecture to others about 'military logic', it would do you well to study warfare in general, then drill down to specific wars.

Anyway...The process is called 'fragmentation', meaning to render the defense from a unified entity into discrete and isolated parts. The classic divide and conquer strategy. We start off with isolating the leadership by severance of communication lines, like how we did so to the Iraqi military. Then once the individual commands no longer have access to each other and to the leadership, coordinated defense is abandoned in favor of survival and this is where it favors the attacker.

When you are in survival mode, you bunker down and fortify your position, hopefully strong enough to withstand attacks, but fortification also means limited mobility, a condition you imposed upon yourself because if you venture out, whether by actually leaving your fort or by wireless communication, you exposed yourself to attacks.

As an Air Force guy, I will give the air power perspective, not only because I am a Desert Storm veteran, but I also studied US air power in Iraq for my own intellectual curiosity.

The saying is: 'Own the air to win the ground'. And owning Iraqi airspace from the start is exactly what happened in Desert Storm. Iranian air power is no match for US, no matter how much bluster from our Iranian forum members. We began the takeover of Iraqi airspace by blinding the Iraqi defense by destroying specific air defense radar stations. Once the sensor gap was in place, other specific air defense targets were destroyed. Testimonies from our pilots had Iraqi air defense sites active and seeking, but their launches were not focused and uncoordinated. That does not mean those launched missiles were not dangerous. Yes, they were. But they would have been much more effective had the air defense stations were in communication with each other.

Fragmentation can take many forms and does not have to be physical or even long term.

Decoys can produce that 'fragmentation' effect because one or more air defense stations redirected their focus to the decoys, of course, the Iraqis did not know they were shooting at decoys. We deployed radar decoys against Iraqi air defense radars and their refocus created gaps (air corridors) through which we exploited. Where the radar looketh, so goeth the missiles. Later on, as in days after the initial assault, just from the threat of American HARM missiles, most Iraqi air defense radars remained mostly quiet. If the air defense radars are silent, then we own the sky. The air assault began on mid-January and by the end of January, we owned Iraqi airspace. We did not destroyed literally all Iraqi air defense stations. We just destroyed enough and scared others into that bunker mentality.

Fragmentation -- it works.

That's the biggest problem, those thousands of missiles aimed at Gulf bases and the strait of Hormuz and Saudi Arabia. Only then can you strike the nuclear sites. It takes weeks of intense bombings. Can't look for the articles now, but that was the consensus. It would amount to all out air war, and 'probably' necessistate limited ground action of a couple thousand troops.

You are probably too young to remember Desert Storm. What you are saying now in defense of the Iranians, I see the same in defense of the Iraqi back then. Iranian air defense of today is barely better than what Iraq had.

B-52 A-10 etc wouldn't be involved in strikes against the nuclear plants. Probably neither of the other 4th gen teen jets. Just the B-2 and F-22. And that isn't enough to strike Iran's sites. Sure the US could pummel Iran into the stone age, but it wouldn't happen. Too much risk and sl

Please do not say silly things like this. This is classic underestimation of your enemy. You have no idea how creative we can be if the situation demands it.

hhhh. S-300 PMU2 can destroy the f-22, F-35 and B2

And from what video game is that ?

 

[gambit]

Well this is the real world, not call of duty. I invite you to google it. The reasons against a war with Iran. Weeks of bombings is by all means a real war, not 'some strikes'. And those some people are retired generals and other military analysts. Think about it. How can you just send in a few stealth fighters when Iran will retaliate? So you need to take out those capabilities too. It's not just full US mights against full Iranian might. Not a paper comparison. Things don't work like that in real life.

Think about it, if it was that easy, they would have already done it under Bush.

In the real world, there is study of the skill of weaponeering.

Weaponeering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice I did not say 'art' but I said 'skill'.

Weaponeering is the study and skills of engineering weapons to targets, meaning you analyze the nature and characteristics of the target and you design and/or employ a weapon specific to that target.

For example, can you use a bomb to kill a fly ? Absolutely. But that would be a massive expenditure of capital, includes human, finance, materiel, and so on. The outlay would be so great that it would compel the opinion of the program being a 'waste' or 'wasteful spending'. But in studying the nature and physical characteristics of the fly, you develop the fly swatter or insect attractants. In effect, you just completed a specific instance of 'weaponeering'.

The anti-radiation missile is a specific instance of weaponeering. The bow and arrow is a specific instance of weaponeering. If the target is a cluster of electrical transformers that service a city, there is no need for precision munitions, or even a single 'smart' bomb, when a few 'dumb' bombs can do just enough damage to deny the city a few hours of electricity. Weaponeering is not restricted to technology but also includes more intelligent usages of current weapons.

The advantages of weaponeering is reduced cost in relation to benefits. Weaponeering reduces the odds of collateral damages and the need for repeated strikes against a target. For example, if intelligence revealed that enemy fighters are secured in enclosed hardened shelters, a couple of 'smart' munitions can be used to damage the shelter doors to prevent them from opening, effectively trapped the enemy fighter inside the shelter. Preventing the enemy fighter from taking off is 99% as good as damaging it.

Troop concentration on land is not the same as troop concentration at sea. On land, troops can be dispersed, even on an individual level, so 'carpet bombing' is pretty much a necessity against troop masses on land. But against a ship carrying troops, a few precision munitions to disable the ship from moving will be enough to trap that mass of troops from contributing to the war effort. This is weaponeering.

US air power have come a long way since Desert Storm. We made a lot of mistakes, from technical to all the way up to policy. But we have not been idle, if anything, we have been very busy in finding ways to improve our weaponeering. If there is a shooting war between US and Iran, it WILL be Desert Storm redux[/].

 

[scythian500]

Please do not say silly things like this. This is classic underestimation of your enemy. You have no idea how creative we can be if the situation demands it.

Exactly!!

Later on, as in days after the initial assault, just from the threat of American HARM missiles, most Iraqi air defense radars remained mostly quiet. If the air defense radars are silent, then we own the sky.

what if every air defense unit is equipped with systems that are linked to passive radars with no radiation?

We start off with isolating the leadership by severance of communication lines, like how we did so to the Iraqi military

Do you really think Iranian commanders never heard of your Technics and only you did!!? All Iranian defense and command & control units are linked through both coded links, wireless, optic fibers and hardcore wires... They are also trained and programmed to work independently in case of lose of communications... there are protocol for that... you mistaken Iranian structure with Arab ones who lack independent decision making capability due to their tribal and cultural bullhsit... Why Arabs lose wars?

IR-TR is not expressing his opinion, it is a known fact discussed many times:
U.S. Attack on Iran Would Take Hundreds of Planes, Ships, and Missiles | WIRED
Bombing Iran Is a Terrible Idea — War Is Boring — Medium

Iranian air defense of today is barely better than what Iraq had.

No COMMENT!!

Gamboo says: Weaponeering is the study and skills of engineering weapons to targets, meaning you analyze the nature and characteristics of the target and you design and/or employ a weapon specific to that target.
Exactly!! why do you think you are the only one who have this skill??

Look child, you see your capabilities but under estimate your enemy at the same time... One of the main reason US and ISrael don't risk to start a war with Iran is because Iran has created an environment that even US has no idea what will be expecting them in Iran if attacked... another reason is that US knows for sure that neither Iran is Iraq, nor Iran will leave US to hit and go... They fear the regional and global consequences might arise after they hit Iran... They never can kill all Iranian peoples and if they do this stupidity, then whenever and where ever all US and Israeli citizens going they most be aware that Iranians will hunt them down... They will create a up to the end of times problem for themselves called Iranian revenge... Even today with no war, majority of Iranians are angry with US policies let aside the fact in case of war what they do... Before talking about equipment, you must take into account facts that Iranians are warrior, not fearful people who happily die for their country and their beliefs... this is a problem no power in world can deal with it if triggered...

US and West in general are famous for having a normal procedure of trying to overthrown every country that does not obey that and is independent with its interests... they are known to not hesitate a minute to attack who ever appose them... Have you ever asked yourself.. honestly... have you ever asked yourself,.,. while less dangerous enemies of US so called Interests 10000 miles away from your land were invaded when they started to appose US, why the hell it took them soooooooooooooooo long (more than 36 years now!!) to do it with Iran and get rid it once and for all???
Seriously, somebody give me an answer...please spare us from diplomatic solutions and bull cake...

Thanks God US commanders and leaders are not as dumb in analysis as yours... you are just a pilot that performs what your commanders telling you...more like a worker that obey dictated orders of your masters... that,s it... you are no analyst..

One expert theorist like yourself, that does not yet know that:

1- Wars has changed into modern forms... Modern as a strong classic army can never get what it wants from a small asymmetric rebels let aside, Millions of Iranians and their allies who are ten time more trained and armed...

2- You can not base your plans and mind on battles happened decades ago, as no two enemy are alike and today's capabilities are not the same as yesterday...

3- Whatever you know form your opponent capabilities and possible actions, it is possible that your opponent also knows about your capabilities and possible actions and take care of it...

You talk like you,re planing a hide and seek game for your kids.... War with an unpredictable opponent like Iran is not a top gun game or hollywood star wars movies that US always wins!!!!

so please act like a good veteran of foreign invasion (and not a veteran of defending your land) and go get your pension and retell us your heroic stories so we have some fun....

Please spare us from your heroic Call of Duty, Top Gun game-like plans and bluffs... There is a reason why you,re not a US commander but a veteran pilot... Think about it boy...

 

[gambit]

what if every air defense unit is equipped with systems that are linked to passive radars with no radiation?

There is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. And please use the search feature on this forum where I explained why. I see no need to address the rest of your post.

 

[scythian500]

There is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. And please use the search feature on this forum where I explained why. I see no need to address the rest of your post.

Because you are so much irrelevant that want to listen to yourself only... look veteran war start warrior, whatever you know about your enemy, give a slight chance that your enemy also knows about you and plan a Weaponeering and counter measures...
and I would be really happy if you as a very skilled theorist enlighten me with your logical answers to my doubts... that would be a very civilized conversation...

There is no such thing as a 'passive' radar. And please use the search feature on this forum where I explained why. I see no need to address the rest of your post.

Passive radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gambit]

Exactly!! why do you think you are the only one who have this skill??

Did I say the US is the only one to have this skill ?

But here is why your argument failed...

Weaponeering is limited to your available assets and that means the greater the variations of your weapons stock, the greater your flexibility in deployment. Against US, Iran will be forced to take a defensive posture, which mean Iranian air defense assets will NOT know the precise time and nature of their attackers, which could be bombs or decoys.

Advantage -- US.

Passive radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I bet you did not read the details of that wiki source, child.

 

[scythian500]

Did I say the US is the only one to have this skill ?

But here is why your argument failed...

Weaponeering is limited to your available assets and that means the greater the variations of your weapons stock, the greater your flexibility in deployment. Against US, Iran will be forced to take a defensive posture, which mean Iranian air defense assets will NOT know the precise time and nature of their attackers, which could be bombs or decoys.

Advantage -- US.


And I bet you did not read the details of that wiki source, child.

You did not say US is the only one who has it.. but you said it like it is only your advantage and others does not think about!!

Iran is using into-depth spy system that every action will be reported immediately... Iran has also developed OTH and ULtra long range radar systems specifically for knowing any stupid moves in advance..and Iranian forces are for alert for long time and ready... Imagine you try to fly your herd of B-2 or whatever... don't you think Iran can see them around 3000 KMs beyond its borders? Do you think Iranians long range radars are focused on ISIS fighters!!?

US has lost its element of surprise years ago when Iran had not current capabilities... now, imagine even a few minute head on awareness what can do in a defensive war let aside hours of alert time space...

and tell one thing, why when I bother myself asking you nice questions and express my doubts, you don't act civilized and try to convince me? Don't tell me I'm not the one to be convinced... I,m Iranian and you,re talking about my country

 

[BordoEnes]

Which we can do.


Not yet.


Which I doubt you have.


Wrong, we do not have to do 'entire'. If you want to lecture to others about 'military logic', it would do you well to study warfare in general, then drill down to specific wars.

Anyway...The process is called 'fragmentation', meaning to render the defense from a unified entity into discrete and isolated parts. The classic divide and conquer strategy. We start off with isolating the leadership by severance of communication lines, like how we did so to the Iraqi military. Then once the individual commands no longer have access to each other and to the leadership, coordinated defense is abandoned in favor of survival and this is where it favors the attacker.

When you are in survival mode, you bunker down and fortify your position, hopefully strong enough to withstand attacks, but fortification also means limited mobility, a condition you imposed upon yourself because if you venture out, whether by actually leaving your fort or by wireless communication, you exposed yourself to attacks.

As an Air Force guy, I will give the air power perspective, not only because I am a Desert Storm veteran, but I also studied US air power in Iraq for my own intellectual curiosity.

The saying is: 'Own the air to win the ground'. And owning Iraqi airspace from the start is exactly what happened in Desert Storm. Iranian air power is no match for US, no matter how much bluster from our Iranian forum members. We began the takeover of Iraqi airspace by blinding the Iraqi defense by destroying specific air defense radar stations. Once the sensor gap was in place, other specific air defense targets were destroyed. Testimonies from our pilots had Iraqi air defense sites active and seeking, but their launches were not focused and uncoordinated. That does not mean those launched missiles were not dangerous. Yes, they were. But they would have been much more effective had the air defense stations were in communication with each other.

Fragmentation can take many forms and does not have to be physical or even long term.

Decoys can produce that 'fragmentation' effect because one or more air defense stations redirected their focus to the decoys, of course, the Iraqis did not know they were shooting at decoys. We deployed radar decoys against Iraqi air defense radars and their refocus created gaps (air corridors) through which we exploited. Where the radar looketh, so goeth the missiles. Later on, as in days after the initial assault, just from the threat of American HARM missiles, most Iraqi air defense radars remained mostly quiet. If the air defense radars are silent, then we own the sky. The air assault began on mid-January and by the end of January, we owned Iraqi airspace. We did not destroyed literally all Iraqi air defense stations. We just destroyed enough and scared others into that bunker mentality.

Fragmentation -- it works.


You are probably too young to remember Desert Storm. What you are saying now in defense of the Iranians, I see the same in defense of the Iraqi back then. Iranian air defense of today is barely better than what Iraq had.


Please do not say silly things like this. This is classic underestimation of your enemy. You have no idea how creative we can be if the situation demands it.


And from what video game is that ?

Interesting, probably the most short yet extremely detailed explanation on how USAF gained Air superiority in Iraq so fast. You say you were an "Air Force Guy" meaning you where a pilot or mechanic of some sort?

You did not say US is the only one who has it.. but you said it like it is only your advantage and others does not think about!!

Iran is using into-depth spy system that every action will be reported immediately... Iran has also developed OTH and ULtra long range radar systems specifically for knowing any stupid moves in advance..and Iranian forces are for alert for long time and ready... Imagine you try to fly your herd of B-2 or whatever... don't you think Iran can see them around 3000 KMs beyond its borders? Do you think Iranians long range radars are focused on ISIS fighters!!?

US has lost its element of surprise years ago when Iran had not current capabilities... now, imagine even a few minute head on awareness what can do in a defensive war let aside hours of alert time space...

and tell one thing, why when I bother myself asking you nice questions and express my doubts, you don't act civilized and try to convince me? Don't tell me I'm not the one to be convinced... I,m Iranian and you,re talking about my country

Mate, so what if you build some long range radar. Are you basing your whole argument around this? Merely because you build some radars doesnt mean you can render practicly the entire USAF useless, thats truelly laughable. The B-2s and F-22 all in their own rights are build so it could prevent being detected by these radars, meaning your entire argument is based around the delusional idea that Iran would be able to track and find any US aircraft anytime and anywere. (And even if they could do this, how would they even answer to an Armada of USAF fighers)

We dont need to discuss any tactics and strategies in this discussion, its pointless to argue since the raw US airforce power would be enough to render any Iranian air defence useless.

 

[mohsen]

Did I say the US is the only one to have this skill ?

But here is why your argument failed...

Weaponeering is limited to your available assets and that means the greater the variations of your weapons stock, the greater your flexibility in deployment. Against US, Iran will be forced to take a defensive posture, which mean Iranian air defense assets will NOT know the precise time and nature of their attackers, which could be bombs or decoys.

Advantage -- US.

That's the main problem with your war theories. that you just attack and we just defend, till our forces become ineffective.
you didn't count what we will do, and what capabilities we have acquired to counter your technologies.
that's how you managed to loose your top secret assets (RQ170) to Iran, intact. your own propaganda of superior tech fooled yourself.
the same thing happened to Israelis, they couldn't Imagine their super duper army which was ranked 4th in the world and defeated the whole Arabs in 6 days, would be defeated against Hezbollah, but after 33 days of war they retreated without reaching any of their goals, but lost a lot, their legendary ships and tanks were ruined. they had created a legend about Merkva (due to their delusion of superior tech) yet Hezbollah turned that to their graveyards. their most hope turned into their last hope.

for whatever weapon that you have, we have acquired it's counter, symmetric or asymmetric; yet you haven't done the same, cause firstly you can't (due to technical problems) and secondly your arrogance and pride wont let you.

 

[scythian500]

Interesting, probably the most short yet extremely detailed explanation on how USAF gained Air superiority in Iraq so fast. You say you were an "Air Force Guy" meaning you where a pilot or mechanic of some sort?



Mate, so what if you build some long range radar. Are you basing your whole argument around this? Merely because you build some radars doesnt mean you can render practicly the entire USAF useless, thats truelly laughable. The B-2s and F-22 all in their own rights are build so it could prevent being detected by these radars, meaning your entire argument is based around the delusional idea that Iran would be able to track and find any US aircraft anytime and anywere. (And even if they could do this, how would they even answer to an Armada of USAF fighers)

We dont need to discuss any tactics and strategies in this discussion, its pointless to argue since the raw US airforce power would be enough to render any Iranian air defence useless.

It is operated by No. 1 Radar Surveillance Unit of the Royal Australian Air Force. Jindalee is amultistatic radar (multiple-receiver) system using OTH-B, allowing it to have both long range as well as anti-stealth capabilities. It has an official range of 3,000 kilometres (1,900 mi), but in 1997 the prototype was able to detect missile launches byChina[11] over 5,500 kilometres (3,400 mi) away.

an Iranian topic again and here
Turks coming like obsessed hawks!!