Iranian Air Defense Systems

[ptldM3]

yes i, unwanted google translation. I live in France and I try to learn Persian and Kabyle, it's hard, yes jaimerai learn English well

While we are on the subject of your backround, is that you in your avatar?

 

[scythian500]

yes i, unwanted google translation. I live in France and I try to learn Persian and Kabyle, it's hard, yes jaimerai learn English well

if you want my opinion, I think that Iran should promptly ordered emergency aircraft such as the Su-30/35 ... if tomorrow the American vaudrai remetre emabrgo us, we will have already had sophisticated with a good air defense our current fleet and too weak and old .... the best thing and the rempalcer by aircraft such as su-30/35 which is long range and powerful radar and armement.notre defense will be provided. then we can start local project, as for the S-300 will use it now because we need the time that the talash3 and bavar373 am OPERATIONAL.
if iran order 100 su-30/35 it will be quiet for 30 next year .... and we can work on an Iranian fighter for the future. but we must first secured our defense now.

right... but Iranian problem is with US and ISrael that both of them will be equiped by 5th gen fighters soon... so Su-30/35 won't do the job the way Iran wants it... only planes like T-50 can work well for Iran for next 20 years... I think any planes less than 5th gen T-50 level would be a waste of money for Iran as it won,t help us in case of war...

Don't worry Iranian commanders realized soon enough that Iran can not buy any reliable fighters any time soon..this is why Iran decided to concentrer sur aero defense... je suis certain que ce type de air defense will do the job of keeping Iranian sky safe until Iran can either buy 5th gen planes or develop mush better futuristic air defense systems...

Kabyle

Que'est ce que ce mot? Kabyle? you mean Tribal language? we don't have tribes among Persians

 

[Tomyris]

right... but Iranian problem is with US and ISrael that both of them will be equiped by 5th gen fighters soon... so Su-30/35 won't do the job the way Iran wants it... only planes like T-50 can work well for Iran for next 20 years... I think any planes less than 5th gen T-50 level would be a waste of money for Iran as it won,t help us in case of war...

Don't worry Iranian commanders realized soon enough that Iran can not buy any reliable fighters any time soon..this is why Iran decided to concentrer sur aero defense... je suis certain que ce type de air defense will do the job of keeping Iranian sky safe until Iran can either buy 5th gen planes or develop mush better futuristic air defense systems...


Que'est ce que ce mot? Kabyle? you mean Tribal language? we don't have tribes among Persians

no. Kabyle and language in Algeria.

no it's not a waste of money. veillissante maintain a fleet of F-1 F-4, F-14 and the rest nosu is too expensive, and are obselete .the su-30/35 will defend the Iranian sky in spain Iranian aerial and ... intercepted while the enemy fighter, and topped with air defense, nothing will pass ..

t-50 and not mass produced and will pui russia india the first to receive it ... and if Russia agrees to sell to the iran..on will have to wait 10 years or more. ... and it was not the temps..si the embargo and by the American remi we have no air force capable..alors that if we order su-30 / 35on have a good aerial force. .

 

[IR-TR]

Which we can do.


Not yet.


Which I doubt you have.


Wrong, we do not have to do 'entire'. If you want to lecture to others about 'military logic', it would do you well to study warfare in general, then drill down to specific wars.

Anyway...The process is called 'fragmentation', meaning to render the defense from a unified entity into discrete and isolated parts. The classic divide and conquer strategy. We start off with isolating the leadership by severance of communication lines, like how we did so to the Iraqi military. Then once the individual commands no longer have access to each other and to the leadership, coordinated defense is abandoned in favor of survival and this is where it favors the attacker.

When you are in survival mode, you bunker down and fortify your position, hopefully strong enough to withstand attacks, but fortification also means limited mobility, a condition you imposed upon yourself because if you venture out, whether by actually leaving your fort or by wireless communication, you exposed yourself to attacks.

As an Air Force guy, I will give the air power perspective, not only because I am a Desert Storm veteran, but I also studied US air power in Iraq for my own intellectual curiosity.

The saying is: 'Own the air to win the ground'. And owning Iraqi airspace from the start is exactly what happened in Desert Storm. Iranian air power is no match for US, no matter how much bluster from our Iranian forum members. We began the takeover of Iraqi airspace by blinding the Iraqi defense by destroying specific air defense radar stations. Once the sensor gap was in place, other specific air defense targets were destroyed. Testimonies from our pilots had Iraqi air defense sites active and seeking, but their launches were not focused and uncoordinated. That does not mean those launched missiles were not dangerous. Yes, they were. But they would have been much more effective had the air defense stations were in communication with each other.

Fragmentation can take many forms and does not have to be physical or even long term.

Decoys can produce that 'fragmentation' effect because one or more air defense stations redirected their focus to the decoys, of course, the Iraqis did not know they were shooting at decoys. We deployed radar decoys against Iraqi air defense radars and their refocus created gaps (air corridors) through which we exploited. Where the radar looketh, so goeth the missiles. Later on, as in days after the initial assault, just from the threat of American HARM missiles, most Iraqi air defense radars remained mostly quiet. If the air defense radars are silent, then we own the sky. The air assault began on mid-January and by the end of January, we owned Iraqi airspace. We did not destroyed literally all Iraqi air defense stations. We just destroyed enough and scared others into that bunker mentality.

Fragmentation -- it works.


You are probably too young to remember Desert Storm. What you are saying now in defense of the Iranians, I see the same in defense of the Iraqi back then. Iranian air defense of today is barely better than what Iraq had.


Please do not say silly things like this. This is classic underestimation of your enemy. You have no idea how creative we can be if the situation demands it.


And from what video game is that ?

You have some points. But if it were that easy, t he US would have gotten it over with a long time ago. Guess what? Those 3000 US trainers in Iraq are dead meat in 1 minute if you attack Iran. Iraqi forces will see to that. And to compare Iran's missile capability to those of Saddam's Iraq is silly at best.

Did I say the US is the only one to have this skill ?

But here is why your argument failed...

Weaponeering is limited to your available assets and that means the greater the variations of your weapons stock, the greater your flexibility in deployment. Against US, Iran will be forced to take a defensive posture, which mean Iranian air defense assets will NOT know the precise time and nature of their attackers, which could be bombs or decoys.

Advantage -- US.


And I bet you did not read the details of that wiki source, child.

You know, sure the US is superior and it's arsenal is superior. But Iran can inflict too much pain on US and world interests to ever allow the US to attack. Let's see, couple of thousand of soldiers on training mission in Iraq, DEAD. Couple of airbases in the vicinity of the Persian

right... but Iranian problem is with US and ISrael that both of them will be equiped by 5th gen fighters soon... so Su-30/35 won't do the job the way Iran wants it... only planes like T-50 can work well for Iran for next 20 years... I think any planes less than 5th gen T-50 level would be a waste of money for Iran as it won,t help us in case of war...

Don't worry Iranian commanders realized soon enough that Iran can not buy any reliable fighters any time soon..this is why Iran decided to concentrer sur aero defense... je suis certain que ce type de air defense will do the job of keeping Iranian sky safe until Iran can either buy 5th gen planes or develop mush better futuristic air defense systems...


Que'est ce que ce mot? Kabyle? you mean Tribal language? we don't have tribes among Persians

Literally nobody thinks the F-35 can outfight the SU27-35, let alone the pak-fa. That's why the us has the f22. So Israel won't be winning any dogfights if Iran can get it's hands on 4th gen ++ fighters. Don't be afraid.

 

[gambit]

Passive Radars:

Advantages and disadvantages[edit]
Advocates of the technology cite the following advantages:

• Lower procurement cost
• Lower costs of operation and maintenance, due to the lack of transmitter and moving parts
• Covert operation, including no need for frequency allocations
• Physically small and hence easily deployed in places where conventional radars cannot be
• Capabilities against stealth aircraft due to the frequency bands and multistatic geometries employed[3]
• Rapid updates, typically once a second
• Difficulty of jamming
• Resilience to anti-radiation missiles.

10 Shahrivar Passive Radar:
جهان نيوز - رونمایی از سامانه راداری پسیو «۱۰شهریور»
رونمایی از چند سامانه همزمان با روز ارتش
رونمایی از سامانه راداری پسیو «۱۰شهریور»
Iran showcases domestically-developed defense systems (PHOTO)
Iran Showcases Domestically-Developed Defense Systems

Alim radar system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alim is the first Iranian passive radar. Passive radars do not transmit waves and instead, detect and track objects by processing reflections from non-cooperative sources of illumination in the environment, such as commercial broadcast and communications signals.
Alim is cheaper and has less maintenance cost than normal radars because it doesn't have transmitter and movable mechanical parts. Although it needs high processing power because it has to do six levels of processing to track a target. Other advantages include the ability to detect low RCS stealth targets in low altitudes. Also as it doesn't transmit anything, it is not possible to destroy it using anti radiation missiles such as American AGM-88 HARM thus it can be deployed near the enemy lines.

There are many Iranian radars with stealth detection ability and very powerful ECCM capabilities:

For example: I can recall one Iranian Stealth detection radar:

Matla - ul-fajr 2 Radar:

State-owned Mashregh News reported that Matla-ul-fajr 2 is a solid state 3D radar operating in VHF band. Due to the nature of its frequency, it can detect low-Radar cross-section targets such as stealth aircraft and cruise missiles. The range of the radar is 480 kilometres (300 mi) and it uses two separate channels for detection and is installed on the back of heavy trucks to enhance mobility. This radar won the first place in Kwarazmi International Festival.[1]

I don't claim Iran will be able to shoot down all B-2 and F-22s when attacking Iran but I,m sure that, first, Iran can detect them soon enough to prepare for it.. second, They can shoot significant numbers of them...

Btw, Block Buster bombs are too heavy to be able to be carried by planes other than B-2... which we have done a lot for this specific bird!!

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

Without either one, there would be no radar detection.

Here is where and why I said you did not read your source and bothered to learn even the basics of radar detection...

Passive radars do not transmit waves and instead, detect and track objects by processing reflections from non-cooperative sources of illumination in the environment, such as commercial broadcast and communications signals.

What the above sentence, from your own source, mean is that the 'Transmit' part of the process is NOT under the ownership and control of the operator. Or put it another way, the operator is only the 'Receive' part of the process and must rely on someone else to do the 'Transmit' part.

The word 'radar' in 'passive radar' should be understood in this context. If there are no 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' then there will be no reflections, correct ? And if there are no reflections, then there will be detection, correct ? It means the passive receiver will just sit there -- doing nothing.

Those 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' are from TV and radio stations, cell phone towers, basically any signals of any freqs of any amplitude. In an attack, if enough of these sources are degraded or destroyed, there will be gaps. Those gaps could be physical, such as no transmissions from the source(s) at all, or the gaps could be qualitative, meaning the signals are too weak to be of any use. Weakened signals can be absorbed by the atmosphere or even by the aircraft itself, thereby producing no reflections, and if there are no reflections, there will be no detection.

Your Iranian source do not tell you these details because they know they do not have the historical data to back up their claims about efficacy on detecting low observable targets. The Russians and the Chinese do not have those historical data as well. Simply put, no one outside of US have such data. We have it because we have the real 'stealth' aircrafts to conduct live, not computer simulated, tests.

You are treading into an area that I can tell you have no technical backgrounds to stand upon.

 

[scythian500]

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

Without either one, there would be no radar detection.

Here is where and why I said you did not read your source and bothered to learn even the basics of radar detection...

Passive radars do not transmit waves and instead, detect and track objects by processing reflections from non-cooperative sources of illumination in the environment, such as commercial broadcast and communications signals.

What the above sentence, from your own source, mean is that the 'Transmit' part of the process is NOT under the ownership and control of the operator. Or put it another way, the operator is only the 'Receive' part of the process and must rely on someone else to do the 'Transmit' part.

The word 'radar' in 'passive radar' should be understood in this context. If there are no 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' then there will be no reflections, correct ? And if there are no reflections, then there will be detection, correct ? It means the passive receiver will just sit there -- doing nothing.

Those 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' are from TV and radio stations, cell phone towers, basically any signals of any freqs of any amplitude. In an attack, if enough of these sources are degraded or destroyed, there will be gaps. Those gaps could be physical, such as no transmissions from the source(s) at all, or the gaps could be qualitative, meaning the signals are too weak to be of any use. Weakened signals can be absorbed by the atmosphere or even by the aircraft itself, thereby producing no reflections, and if there are no reflections, there will be no detection.

Your Iranian source do not tell you these details because they know they do not have the historical data to back up their claims about efficacy on detecting low observable targets. The Russians and the Chinese do not have those historical data as well. Simply put, no one outside of US have such data. We have it because we have the real 'stealth' aircrafts to conduct live, not computer simulated, tests.

You are treading into an area that I can tell you have no technical backgrounds to stand upon.

ok star war hollywood veteran... US will destroy hundreds of not thousands of TV, Radio, Cell phone tramsmitter all around the way to their central Iranian targets in order to deactivate these type of radars...!! If you can do all this mission impossible then tell me what you can do to avoid being seen by Iranian long range EO/ ER detectors... those who captured RQ-170 years ago...? what do you do to not being detected by multiple types of UHF and VHF radars with strong ECCM capabilties? What do you do with OTH multi static radar?
but whatever you say... you sure are the only one who has all the solutions and strategies and Iranians don't!! You should go to pentagon share your wisdom with your commanders... maybe the finish their 36 years postponed job and once and for all get rid of Iran...
whatever you say top Gun movie veteran... If you ever read all I have bothered myself to explain to you, you would not proceed with your comments... but since all other nations are dumb and USAF is smart then I have nothing to add...
USAF can crash Iranian forces before they realize there is an attack... good for you

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

You are treading into an area that I can tell you have no technical backgrounds to stand upon.

Since you are a veteran air force specialist I have a few questions and I would be happy to know the answers if you are high rank enough to know about it of course:

1- Iran will use EW and ECCM technics and equipment in all its weapon carriers.. from birds , radars up to battle ships... how much you are sure US can beat these systems and with what specific technics or technology it is going to do the job?

2- What counter masses a US battle ship have to defend itself against Iranian Hoot torpedo?

3- what a US aircraft carrier or battle ship can do to counter let,s say 100 missiles coming in order one after another with no pause..?

4- What can be done to not being seen by Iranian electro/optical and night vision long range detectors?

5- What counter measures US can implement to avoid being seen by OTH +3000 km Sepehr radar?

6- what US will do if he loses let,s say 10K soldiers in one day (one aircraft carrier and other stuff) against Iran... I said IF... Will US nuke Iran??

7- ******************************* (it is so secret that I can not even ask a question about it!!)

8- What counter measures can be done against let,s say at least 200 super fast boats (+60 knots) aiming at rocketing you?

You are treading into an area that I can tell you have no technical backgrounds to stand upon.

No I don't have special info in this field but you who are an expert and star war. top gun style veteran.. why you with all these medals bring up naive reasoning and logic and even more naive analysis and strategies for a war with Iran? I still wait for my first set of question in my first post... I have nothing against you... your Freemason mullah government has brainwashed you Americans in a way that you can distinguish between hollywood movies and reality.... I just need you to explain things to me... enlighten me with my doubts and questions... IF you could convince me then I would happily become an american soon... I will leave my country that is weak and will join you there...

 

[mohsen]

oh, my dear Lord .
the guy really thinks he can shut down all broadcast transmitters and radars (including their own) in Iran and neighbor countries.

 

[SOHEIL]

While we are on the subject of your backround, is that you in your avatar?

No ... she is an Iranian model :

 

[ptldM3]

No ... she is an Iranian model :

View attachment 216264

Oh i see, but at least your avatar is real right? It's you?

 

[SOHEIL]

Oh i see, but at least your avatar is real right? It's you?

 

[ptldM3]

View attachment 216317

I think i met you before. Your face look familiar.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Radar detection is a two-parts process: Transmit and Receive.

Without either one, there would be no radar detection.

Here is where and why I said you did not read your source and bothered to learn even the basics of radar detection...

Passive radars do not transmit waves and instead, detect and track objects by processing reflections from non-cooperative sources of illumination in the environment, such as commercial broadcast and communications signals.

What the above sentence, from your own source, mean is that the 'Transmit' part of the process is NOT under the ownership and control of the operator. Or put it another way, the operator is only the 'Receive' part of the process and must rely on someone else to do the 'Transmit' part.

The word 'radar' in 'passive radar' should be understood in this context. If there are no 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' then there will be no reflections, correct ? And if there are no reflections, then there will be detection, correct ? It means the passive receiver will just sit there -- doing nothing.

Those 'commercial broadcast and communications signals' are from TV and radio stations, cell phone towers, basically any signals of any freqs of any amplitude. In an attack, if enough of these sources are degraded or destroyed, there will be gaps. Those gaps could be physical, such as no transmissions from the source(s) at all, or the gaps could be qualitative, meaning the signals are too weak to be of any use. Weakened signals can be absorbed by the atmosphere or even by the aircraft itself, thereby producing no reflections, and if there are no reflections, there will be no detection.

Your Iranian source do not tell you these details because they know they do not have the historical data to back up their claims about efficacy on detecting low observable targets. The Russians and the Chinese do not have those historical data as well. Simply put, no one outside of US have such data. We have it because we have the real 'stealth' aircrafts to conduct live, not computer simulated, tests.

You are treading into an area that I can tell you have no technical backgrounds to stand upon.

Well ,Do you believe if it's possible to silence all radios in it he region.

What if iran spam the country with several thousands of radio transmitter With different frequency and then turn them on in case of any war.

 

[SOHEIL]

I think i met you before. Your face look familiar.

Really ?

 

[yavar]

now that the Russians will be supplying the S300s after all ?

@SOHEIL @haman10 @yavar @Serpentine

Russians will never supply Iran with S300 system so your question is not valid .

Israeli leadership; they have the right to do what they consider appropriate. I think it is counterproductive, if it concerns lethal weapons, because it will only lead to yet another swirl of confrontation, to more human casualties, but the result will be the same,” Putin said in an interview on Rossiya 1 TV on Saturday.
Israel has been upset by Russia’s decision last week to lift its five-year ban on the sale of the S-300 anti-missile system to Iran and to deliver those weapons by the end of 2015.


Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine - Middle East - Jerusalem Post

 

[SOHEIL]

Russians will never supply Iran with S300 system so your question is not valid .

Israeli leadership; they have the right to do what they consider appropriate. I think it is counterproductive, if it concerns lethal weapons, because it will only lead to yet another swirl of confrontation, to more human casualties, but the result will be the same,” Putin said in an interview on Rossiya 1 TV on Saturday.
Israel has been upset by Russia’s decision last week to lift its five-year ban on the sale of the S-300 anti-missile system to Iran and to deliver those weapons by the end of 2015.


Putin warns Israel against selling arms to Ukraine - Middle East - Jerusalem Post

For what reason kalle kiriz didn't unveil Talash-3 !?