Iranian Air Defense Systems

[PeeD]

well if you look at GBU-39

you see they can still use hit and run tactics unless Bavar become operational and we also protect systems like Bavar , 15th khordad and Talash with lots of short range air defense system right now our strategy is to engage those bombs a their target and that's the problem if you fail at those several seconds ,its the end for the target but if you engage the target several time in its path the chance of failure is reduced and it make enemy have no choice and come closer and get in the range of your defense

Well ideally a Tabas or 3rd Khordad would activate at a unknown location triggered by the IADS and suddenly engage the strike package that wants to engage the 15th Khordad. This is cheaper than a Bavar-373 engagement.

However the whole SDB issue is like this: First those ranges need to be cut by at least 30% because they are ideal scenarios: A clean aircraft releasing the SDB at max. altitude at full AB and max. speed.

Secondly: when the SDB arrives to its max. range it is a very slow and static target. The PK of AAA systems is high against such targets and preparation time plenty.

Realistic figures are 20km for JDAM-like PGMs and 40km for SDBs. If a F-15 just carries two SDB to reduce drag for max. release speed, it may achieve 70km or so.
Israelis did it like this: Just a few SDB per F-15 to allow high release speed coming from the Lebanese mountains. Now they have switched to a large supersonic stand-off missile, probably because the Pantsir proved so effective against SDBs (at least at those places where the few Syrian Pantsirs were available).
The SDB is in fact such a slow and easy target that a cheap single 100mm Sarir shot probably has something like 30-50% PK at 6km or so distance...

The Bavar-373 of course would have a secure high value kill if something is able to climb up to very high altitude at near mach 2 speed to release 2 or so unpowered low survivable PGMs. There the target is certainly no decoy and worth a salvo of at least two Sayyad-4.

In most combat scenarios SDB will be released at sub-sonic speed and there, the 45km range of the 15th Khordad is sufficient for the kill.
Expandable, subsonic and very stealthy drones and weapons are probably the bulk of targets that try to neutralize the missile bases.

PS: I bet that 110km PR figure for the SDB was achieved by a close to bingo fuel (no reserves for evasion, low altitude flight or the way back to base, just ready to be mid-air refueled after test-release), clean, F-15 on a hot summer day, @ max. afterburner and max. altitude and with storm like wind conditions to the back of the F-15 and SDB. Arriving to the target at speeds even hypercars can reach today on th road... US-MIC-PR

 

[Russel]

45 kilometer is the range of the missile system against stealth target. 120 km for non-stealth target. Source-
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13980322000406

 

[AmirPatriot]

45km is the limit

You keep saying this despite the fact they said 45 km was the range against stealth targets, while the missiles can engage targets out to 75 km (Sayyad-2) and 120 km (Sayyad-3). I certainly think the radar can guide them to targets at those ranges.

 

[PeeD]

Combined with the Talash-2/3 it would have 75km range with the SD-2M or 120km with the SD-3.

But the baseline system without Talash is just 45km, with the huge benefit of good anti-stealth capabilities and lowest missile cost.
I have good technical reasons to say this. Iran probably leaked it intentionally but as I'm not sure I won't go into the physics behind that statement.

The roadmap envisions that once all S-200 sites are upgraded with to Talash capability, future Talash can be allocated to 15th Khordad batteries to enable long range shots with SD-3. Footprint and cost per missile would then be increased, anti-stealth capability decreased, kinematic PK decreased, and warning time for the target provided. Nevertheless I hope to see that upgrade level for the 15th Khordad soon.
The 6 channel, low cost missile, 45km range, low footprint (physical, EM and personell), high anti-stealth capability, high kinematic PK and high altitude performance is for now good enough for the baseline variant.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You keep saying this despite the fact they said 45 km was the range against stealth targets, while the missiles can engage targets out to 75 km (Sayyad-2) and 120 km (Sayyad-3). I certainly think the radar can guide them to targets at those ranges.

the missile can reach to those ranges but there is a big drawback , the farther the missile go it lose more kinetic energy and become less maneuverable .

 

[T-72B]

Does Iran ever reconsider to retire all it's HQ-2 and S-200 missile system with the already unveil 15th Khordad and older S-2/Talaash AD system?

 

[TheImmortal]

Does Iran ever reconsider to retire all it's HQ-2 and S-200 missile system with the already unveil 15th Khordad and older S-2/Talaash AD system?

Why would they? They are upgraded versions and still deadly against certain aircraft. As long as Iran’s got a healthy inventory of missiles, no point in destroying them, better to keep them deployed.

I’m sure Syria and Iraq would love to have them.

 

[sanel1412]

Does Iran ever reconsider to retire all it's HQ-2 and S-200 missile system with the already unveil 15th Khordad and older S-2/Talaash AD system?

Why would they do such idiotic thing??S-200 missile is one of the fastest missile ever built and hq-2 is also very good high altitude air defense...even without modernization these systems are very capable...they are not mobile but you have to defend many static targets any way,solution is just put s-200 and HQ-2 around these static targets...like air bases...and that is how these systems are deployed...Original S-200 flaw was huge minimal range which makes missile almost useless in medium rangeg(that is range where you fight against fighter jets)but these is solved and Iran demonstrated capability to target low altitude targets in short ranges with s-200(that is why they showed how s-200 targeted UAV at only few miles)...

 

[PeeD]

Talash-1 upgrade level gave S-200 sites the 45km range SD-2M
Talash-2 upgrade was the mature variant that entered service, increased range to 75km for the SD-2M and could support 120km range SD-3. Making it possible to save the valuable S-200 for ranger higher than 120km. It probably also replaced the static Square Pair fire control radar with a new mobile FCS.
Now Talash-3 is the addition of the Najm-804.

A Najm-804 radar added to a S-200 site upgraded to Talash-2 level, forms the Talash-3 capability level. Hence I think Talash-3=Najm-804.

A Talash-2 FCS added to the 15th Khordad creates a new system that operates 45km range SD-2, 75km range SD-2M and 120km range SD-3.

A 15th Khordad stand-alone, baseline, without Talash-2 FCS has 45km range with SD-2.

To benefit from a AESA S-band formerly the Hafez radar was added to S-200 Talash-2 level sites. Now the much higher capability offering Najm-804 can do the job, with added features.
Hafez radars can be completely allocated to HAWK/Mersad sites to offer them the benefits of an AESA S-band sensor.

This seems to be the somewhat complex but very wise approach of these IRIADF assets.

The S-200 as kinematic monster is certainly worth the effort to keep it in service.
But IRGC HQ-2/Sayyad-2 are well and cost effectively replaced by the SD-2. As said previously I would like to see resources saved and all HQ-2 systems combined to 1-2 "super sites" in Tehran. The training, maintenance and support requirements are high but worth to keep 1-2 groups trained on it (with most of the hardware stored).

 

[DoubleYouSee]

Does Iran ever reconsider to retire all it's HQ-2 and S-200 missile system with the already unveil 15th Khordad and older S-2/Talaash AD system?

Mission of S200 is defending cities against strategic bombers........the authorities has said that they want to keep optimizing S200 and giving it new capableties.

 

[skyshadow]

Iran's Air Defence Chief: 'We Are Warning the Enemy…Move as Far Away As You Can From Our Border'



"We are warning the enemy: there is no safe zone for extraterritorial military aircraft in Iranian skies... Even approaching Iran's borders would be met with a strong response. Thus, I advise you to move as much away [from Iran's borders] as you can," the commander said, as quoted by PressTV.


https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/...ymove-as-far-away-as-you-can-from-our-border/

 

[JohnWick]

Iran's Air Defence Chief: 'We Are Warning the Enemy…Move as Far Away As You Can From Our Border'



"We are warning the enemy: there is no safe zone for extraterritorial military aircraft in Iranian skies... Even approaching Iran's borders would be met with a strong response. Thus, I advise you to move as much away [from Iran's borders] as you can," the commander said, as quoted by PressTV.


https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/...ymove-as-far-away-as-you-can-from-our-border/

Ever heard of word "Stealth"?

 

[skyshadow]

Ever heard of word "Stealth"?

yes, but they are not undetectable, we already warned F22 fighters even before they get close to our air space. you can not get close up to 500 km of an 3000 km over the horizon radar without being detected.

 

[Myself]

Does Iran ever reconsider to retire all it's HQ-2 and S-200 missile system with the already unveil 15th Khordad and older S-2/Talaash AD system?

S-200 is by far the most formidable, effective, and longest range missile Iran has in its inventory, and whether or not you believe it won’t change this fact. It is extremely fast, and it’s effective range is even more than S-300 versions iran currently possesses. With the modifications a Belarusian company did for Iran a decade ago, it has become almost invincible with respect to ECM missions from foe fighters.
I wish Iran could purchase the last version of it which had a range of 300 km!

 

[T-72B]

S-200 is by far the most formidable, effective, and longest range missile Iran has in its inventory, and whether or not you believe it won’t change this fact. It is extremely fast, and it’s effective range is even more than S-300 versions iran currently possesses. With the modifications a Belarusian company did for Iran a decade ago, it has become almost invincible with respect to ECM missions from foe fighters.
I wish Iran could purchase the last version of it which had a range of 300 km!

Last version is Dubna which has 400 km range