Iranian Air Defense Systems

[skyshadow]

Iran deputy defense min hails Bavar-373 air defense system

http://www.irna.ir/en/News/83025073

http://www.iran-daily.com/News/230912.html

 

[mohsen]

finally some info about BAVAR 373 was revealed.
range: 200km
max altitude: 27km

آزمایش موفق سامانه موشکی باور 373

 

[WinterNights]

finally some info about BAVAR 373 was revealed.
range: 200km
max altitude: 27km

آزمایش موفق سامانه موشکی باور 373

Is it only using one missile?
Tbh I was hoping for missile with longer range and altitude...

 

[Hack-Hook]

Is it only using one missile?
Tbh I was hoping for missile with longer range and altitude...

that's ‪88582 feet not many airplane can fly at that altitude and the ones who can are not that maneuverable there.
that's good statistic for the missile , what really is important is how much resilient it is against enemy counter measures ,and how good it s at engaging low RCS targets.
by the way 200kmm is not something to be passed away so easily , you want more range with bigger more expensive missiles or you go at 200km and build more system instead .

also you always can build a bigger missile later , why wait several years for the missile ,while you can build the system with this specification right now and introduce that missile when it became ready.

 

[zectech]

Is it only using one missile?
Tbh I was hoping for missile with longer range and altitude...

It is sufficient for now. The altitude is above the service ceiling of any aircraft that can attack Iran. And the range is good enough to space them out about 100 km apart. I would alternate them with the Talaash. And protect them with Herz-9, Raad, 2k12, Pantsir and Tor. With some air defense artillery too. You can't have just one air defense system protecting your assets in a local region. As proven in Syria. 200 km is a minimally good range to set up a vast network of air defenses to stop any cruise missile or air attack. Layers of defenses is what is needed. Even having spotters with man-portable air defense SAM along the coast in a wide chain of coastal air/sea defenses.

Just having one BAVAR 373 to protect a region and have a few cruise missiles pass the defense means a lost Bavar 373 and a hole in your air defense. Man portable SAMs should be mass produced and are cheap. The goal is to protect the airspace of the vital long range SAMs, so nothing ever passes them.

An attack happens at night so light house bright lights like in the Berlin air defenses during wwii would be needed for coastal defense to spot the cruise missiles. The lights turned on when the radar detects cruise missiles over the sea.

Layers upon layers, upon layers of air defense is needed. And if they can't dominate the sky, they can't invade Iran.

Single air defenses with hit ratios of .6 or .8 will never cut it. Enough of an air attack will overwhelm the single solitary air defense and will knock out Iran's air defenses. Iran needs to overwhelm the attack with high and low tech defenses to get every last plane and cruise missile out of commission.

Iran would also need Bavars further inland to protect from ballistic missiles attacking cities and military assets. Again with short range air defenses to protect the long range air defenses.

Iran should produce as many modern up-to-date Iranian versions of ZSU-23-4 Shilkas as possible too. High tech to low tech, missiles to artillery. If stealth cruise missiles are ever invented, artillery would be an added required tool. Where the missiles would be picked up on radar and difficult to hit with defense missiles. Overwhelming the sky with bullets aimed at the target knocks out any stealth missile. Also useful against UAV and 6th gen swarms. Air artillery is designed to not run out of bullets and fire all day and all night.

 

[SALMAN F]

How come the Iranians make weapons that toke Russians years to make??!

 

[WinterNights]

How come the Iranians make weapons that toke Russians years to make??!

Iran has been developing this systems for more than decade now, so it has also taken Iran years, it's not like they developed it overnight. Also, bare in mind Iran has developed many other air defence systems. Bavar is not the first.

Iran has a very robust missile and electronic industry, so it's no surprise Iran could do it. Developing a missiles systems like this naturally takes many years.

It is sufficient for now. The altitude is above the service ceiling of any aircraft that can attack Iran. And the range is good enough to space them out about 100 km apart. I would alternate them with the Talaash. And protect them with Herz-9, Raad, 2k12, Pantsir and Tor. With some air defense artillery too. You can't have just one air defense system protecting your assets in a local region. As proven in Syria. 200 km is a minimally good range to set up a vast network of air defenses to stop any cruise missile or air attack. Layers of defenses is what is needed. Even having spotters with man-portable air defense SAM along the coast in a wide chain of coastal air/sea defenses.

Just having one BAVAR 373 to protect a region and have a few cruise missiles pass the defense means a lost Bavar 373 and a hole in your air defense. Man portable SAMs should be mass produced and are cheap. The goal is to protect the airspace of the vital long range SAMs, so nothing ever passes them.

An attack happens at night so light house bright lights like in the Berlin air defenses during wwii would be needed for coastal defense to spot the cruise missiles. The lights turned on when the radar detects cruise missiles over the sea.

Layers upon layers, upon layers of air defense is needed. And if they can't dominate the sky, they can't invade Iran.

Single air defenses with hit ratios of .6 or .8 will never cut it. Enough of an air attack will overwhelm the single solitary air defense and will knock out Iran's air defenses. Iran needs to overwhelm the attack with high and low tech defenses to get every last plane and cruise missile out of commission.

Iran would also need Bavars further inland to protect from ballistic missiles atacking cities and military assets. Again with short range air defenses to protect the long range air defenses.

I understand all of that. The future threats will be hypersonic systems, I truly hope developers of Bavar takes those systems into account. Bavar systems combined with the other array of Iranian systems can deal with Israelis and Persian gulf states, heck even without bavar we could deal with them with relative ease. But our number 1 threat is obviously the yankees. I hope the future version of Bavar can handle objects in near space etc. Hypersonic ( including cruise missile, glide weapons, UCAVS) swarm attacks will probably be the weapons of the future.

 

[Draco.IMF]

How come the Iranians make weapons that toke Russians years to make??!

1) Russians made everyting from scratch, they had nothing to "look at" or something to "reverse engineer"

2) Iran had technology from some elements of the SA-10 already since Jeltsin era (90s) as documents were declassified (communication between Jeltsin & Clinton)

Regarding some people here complainig about the 200km range
Remember, Iran also says its missiles has range of 2000km, but we know the real deal...
Dont take everything too serious whats coming from defence ministry, they cant tell everything

lets hope B-373 can deal with Ballistic missiles, intercepting drones is no big deal....

 

[zectech]

Hypersonic cruise missile can be hit by the developing s-500s. Iran is at S-300s tech. Get some Chinese hackers.

I wonder if an radar directed air artillery system could potentially hit a HCM before a SAM one could be developed. HCM are picked up on radar, it is just very hard to hit them. If their path is known, just flood the area with bullets and watch 5 million dollars explode.

 

[WinterNights]

Hypersonic cruise missile can be hit by the developing s-500s. Iran is at S-300s tech. Get some Chinese hackers.

I wonder if an radar directed air artillery system could potentially hit a HCM before a SAM one could be developed. HCM are picked up on radar, it is just very hard to hit them. If their path is known, just flood the area with bullets and watch 5 million dollars explode.

If we had to compare, I would say Iran is higher end of s-300 technology and very close to s-400. Iranians are already top hackers, we don't need others. If Chinese do have the stolen information, we could buy/trade them.
With regards to these hyper sonic systems, the other issue is not just they are very fast but also that they will be coming in swarms. There many different types of them too i.e unmanned UCAV, glide weapons and cruise missile version.

An AA gun could work. I think a good defence against them will be ground based, electromagnetic AA guns that can fire bullets at hyper sonic speed to high altitudes. Americans have such things on their ships, we need them on ground. Obviously other defence is offence, i.e having our own hyper sonic weapons to strike with.

Like I said, these hyper-sonic systems are the future, Iran needs to start giving some serious attention to them.

@VEVAK @PeeD what do you think?

 

[mohsen]

another devastating thread merge!

 

[skyshadow]

Is it only using one missile?
Tbh I was hoping for missile with longer range and altitude...

I've read in few places that bavar will use several missiles like the s300 system

https://www.tasnimnews.com/fa/news/1396/06/15/1511833/با-وجود-سامانه-باور-هیچ-هواپیمای-اسرائیلی-جرات-نزدیک-شدن-به-آسمان-ایران-را-نخواهد-داشت
بنابراین من شخصا موشک‌های «باور» را «برادر تنی» موشک‌های اس-300 می نامم. و در همینجا باید به دانشمندان و مهندسین ایرانی تبریک گفت که موفق شده اند چنین سلاح ملی را بسازنند.»

https://donya-e-eqtesad.com/بخش-سایت-خوان-62/3091713-رمزگشایی-از-مشخصات-فنی-سامانه-پدافند-باور

برای این سامانه موشکی، ۳ نوع موشک مختلف برای شکار اهداف در بردها و ارتفاع‌های مختلف تولید شده (مشابه S۴۰۰ با بردی کمتر از آن) است. باور ۳۷۳ از یک پست ارتباطی و یک پست فرماندهی جداگانه نیز بهره می‌برد.

It is sufficient for now. The altitude is above the service ceiling of any aircraft that can attack Iran. And the range is good enough to space them out about 100 km apart. I would alternate them with the Talaash. And protect them with Herz-9, Raad, 2k12, Pantsir and Tor. With some air defense artillery too. You can't have just one air defense system protecting your assets in a local region. As proven in Syria. 200 km is a minimally good range to set up a vast network of air defenses to stop any cruise missile or air attack. Layers of defenses is what is needed. Even having spotters with man-portable air defense SAM along the coast in a wide chain of coastal air/sea defenses.

Just having one BAVAR 373 to protect a region and have a few cruise missiles pass the defense means a lost Bavar 373 and a hole in your air defense. Man portable SAMs should be mass produced and are cheap. The goal is to protect the airspace of the vital long range SAMs, so nothing ever passes them.

An attack happens at night so light house bright lights like in the Berlin air defenses during wwii would be needed for coastal defense to spot the cruise missiles. The lights turned on when the radar detects cruise missiles over the sea.

Layers upon layers, upon layers of air defense is needed. And if they can't dominate the sky, they can't invade Iran.

Single air defenses with hit ratios of .6 or .8 will never cut it. Enough of an air attack will overwhelm the single solitary air defense and will knock out Iran's air defenses. Iran needs to overwhelm the attack with high and low tech defenses to get every last plane and cruise missile out of commission.

Iran would also need Bavars further inland to protect from ballistic missiles attacking cities and military assets. Again with short range air defenses to protect the long range air defenses.

Iran should produce as many modern up-to-date Iranian versions of ZSU-23-4 Shilkas as possible too. High tech to low tech, missiles to artillery. If stealth cruise missiles are ever invented, artillery would be an added required tool. Where the missiles would be picked up on radar and difficult to hit with defense missiles. Overwhelming the sky with bullets aimed at the target knocks out any stealth missile. Also useful against UAV and 6th gen swarms. Air artillery is designed to not run out of bullets and fire all day and all night.

 

[TheImmortal]

With regards to these hyper sonic systems, the other issue is not just they are very fast but also that they will be coming in swarms.

That’s not true at all. First of all Hypersonic systems use hypersonic scram jet engines and thus have to be released at a sufficiently altitude in order to have plenty of oxygen for oxidization.

Currently almost all developing HGV (hypersonic glide vehicles) are being used on BM’s and as a nuclear deterrent.

I am not sure how “cheap” the technology is at this point for “swarm” use. Even accurate BM’s are not sufficiently “cheap” for swarm use.

Furthermore, the S-500 taking out HGV is just a marketing ploy at this term. Modern air defense systems struggle at this current day to intecrept ICBMs, yet I am supposed to believe that the S-500 is somehow going to intercept a reduced RCS HGV warhead coming in at Mach 10+?

Lol that’s hilarious really.

 

[zectech]

If we had to compare, I would say Iran is higher end of s-300 technology and very close to s-400. Iranians are already top hackers, we don't need others. If Chinese do have the stolen information, we could buy/trade them.

From wikipedia

Main characteristics of the S-400[81]
Max. target speed 4.8 kilometres per second (17,000 km/h; 11,000 mph; Mach 14)

The best missile of the S-400s can hit hypersonic objects (Mach 5+) according to the missile characteristics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_missile_system#Quantitative_analysis

If Iran is not far away from S-400s and close to making something similar to the 48N6E2, which can hit targets moving at Mach 8.2, then Iran is close to defending from hypersonic cruise missiles in the low range of hypersonic speed. Once they get a missile like the 40N6 and a deployment system like the S-400s and S-500s, Iran is as good as Russia.

 

[T-72B]

finally some info about BAVAR 373 was revealed.
range: 200km
max altitude: 27km

آزمایش موفق سامانه موشکی باور 373

So as capable as S-300PMU-2?
I see Iran follow the Russian doctrine on air defence,Iran know that it's air force would be turn to smoke if USAF and IAF attack so they concentrated on their air defence