Foinikas
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Watch your language.
Iran unveils hypersonic weapon 'Fattah'
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Abid123
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What do you mean by quality?
lydian fall
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Trolling
Gayreak
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Detecting it , Look for the HUGE THEMAL trail in the sky. Anything moving that fast is HOT to put it mildly. Also, moving at those speeds, the missile can’t make radically evasive turns. Inertia and Momentum are not things that can be ignored. Turn a missile too tightly and it looses control, or exposes portions of the structure to aerodynamic and thermal loading that it can’t handle, and it falls apart.
ReasonableStar75
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No, just Iran is the best. Turkiyeh is strong but they don t make things to international level. And about Assad, He just talk and talk nice, but he does nothing, Syria has no resolute position.
Muslim nations needs resolute leadershipt,not talkers, people that means beef the best arab politician i remember was the egyptian Nasser, he was resolute he gets Sinai for Egypt.
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ReasonableStar75
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You have not idea guy, in every post you write, you are very naive and try to fool iranians here, guy, your country is the most weak of europe and you talk about Iran quality weapons, a lot of countries wants to buy Shahed-136 game changer and winner of Russia ukraine war, and still trying bad to fool iranians. man this is foolish on your side.
Foinikas
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Ok guy. Iran number 1 guy.
ReasonableStar75
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They are number ONE, truly. Just the number One bombs the number One, just to say. Iran will make history, you can mark my words.
Hack-Hook
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I wonder why we want attack KSA air base , when Mohammad Bin Salman and Trump made the deal on the weaponry we stated we are not worried with them as we knew they won't be used against us and they will be used against a certain entity in middle east if they get used
LeGenD
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Shooting down a ballistic missile has been a challenging prospect throughout the Cold War.
Soviet's first Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) test followed by Sputnik launch in 1957 convinced United States (US) to develop Nike-Zeus system, which was equipped with nuclear-tipped interceptors. Nuclear explosion compensated for lack of accuracy at the time. US decided to improve Nike-Zeus system under Nike-X project but it was cancelled due to ballooning costs in favor of the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) treaty with Soviet Union in 1972.
But US has shown a considerable leap in computing technology, radar technology, rocketry, and satellite sensors since 1972. All of these advances are coming together to realize and produce incredibly sophisticated air defense systems that can detect, track, and intercept different types of missiles with "precision." Americans describe this process as being akin to hitting a bullet with bullet.
US withdrew from ABM treaty in 2001 and has developed a number of air defense systems that have verified capability to intercept ballistic missiles.
Patriot system:
AEGIS SM-6 option:
Last night the United States Navy tracked and intercepted the most capable and maneuverable ballistic missile deployed in the Pacific today, a target missile, representing the Dong- Feng 21 Chinese “carrier killer.” On this intercept the SM-6 was employed in a salvo firing, launching one missile following another, for increased Probability of Kill (PK).
“Fireball, We’re Taking It Down!” - Defense Update:
Last night th United States Navy tracked and intercepted the most capable and maneuverable ballistic missile deployed in the Pacific today, a target missile, representing the Dong- Feng 21 Chinese "carrier killer." The new medium target missile was flown for the first time on May 17, launching...
defense-update.com
Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system:
AEGIS SM-3 option:
Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD) system:
The two multistage, solid fuel boosters were each tipped with a state-of-the-art exo-atmospheric kill vehicle. They propelled from silos and punctured the earth's atmosphere at thousands of feet per second, bound for a violent collision in space with a sophisticated ICBM-like target launched from more than 5,000 miles away.
The test, known as Flight Test Ground-based Interceptor 11, or simply FTG-11, concluded within minutes as the two GBIs successfully hit their marks, obliterating them high above earth. FTG-11 was the first-ever salvo test of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense system and at its core were National Guard Soldiers representing Alaska, California and Colorado.
"This was the most significant flight test in the history of missile defense," said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Strawbridge, 100th Missile Defense Brigade director of operations. "To compare it to something else in human history, I would liken it to space travel or putting a man on the moon. It was that complex."
The test took less than an hour, but it was the culmination of years of work, planning, training and development.
National Guard Soldiers at forefront of most significant test in missile defense history
FTG-11 was the first-ever salvo test of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense system and at its core were National Guard Soldiers representing Alaska, California and Colorado.
www.army.mil
Other countries have come up with following solutions:
Russian S-500 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class but Russian claims shall be regarded with caution due to lack of evidence.
Chinese HQ-19/SC-19 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
European Aster 30-SAMP/T system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to SRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Israeli Barak 8 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to SRBM class based on performance in the the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
Iskander missiles were intercepted by Israeli-made Barak-8 air defense, says Armenia
Armenia confirmed earlier that the Iskander missile was intercepted by the Azerbaijani military a few days before the end of the armed conflict in Karabakh. As it turned out, the Russian tactical m…
www.globaldefensecorp.com
Indian Advanced Air Defense (AAD) system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Indian Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Israeli Arrow-2 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here (developed with American assistance)
Israeli Arrow-3 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments (developed with American assistance)
It is important to understand HOW an Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV) can evade a particular air defense system.
GMD system and AEGIS SM-3 option are designed to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to ICBM class in exo-atmospheric conditions. Russian Avangard is launched from an ICBM but it will descend and glide in endo-atmospheric conditions to avoid GMD system and/or AEGIS SM-3 option and reach its designated target in US mainland:
U.S. Hypersonic Weapons and Alternatives
CBO analyzes the hypersonic missiles being developed by the U.S. military and compares them with less expensive existing or potential weapons that might fill similar roles, such as cruise missiles or ballistic missiles.
www.cbo.gov
Russian Avangard can avoid GMD system and/or AEGIS SM-3 option but not every type of air defense system out there subject to HOW it is used (or its designated target).
Can Russia’s Avangard Hypersonic Glide Vehicle be intercepted? - Naval Post- Naval News and Information
The defense against Russian Avangard missile, and other Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles
navalpost.com
--- --- ---
IF an American Aircraft Carrier is the target:
--- --- ---
US has conducted its first HGV intercept experiment in 2020 to evaluate AEGIS SM-6 option in this capacity.
US has developed AEGIS SM-6 Block 1B interceptor to intercept HGV types:
The Sea Based Terminal (SBT) program, with the Aegis Baseline 9 Weapon System and SM-6 missile, is instrumental in MDA’s efforts to deliver a capability to the Navy to defend high value assets at sea and ashore against advanced threats in the terminal phase of flight. SBT is an incremental and evolving capability for ballistic and regional hypersonic defense capability.
Missile Defense Agency Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target
PACIFIC OCEAN -- The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).The test demonstrated the
www.pacom.mil
--- --- ---
IF a location where a THAAD battery is stationed is the target:
--- --- ---
Is the THAAD Seeker a guidance system?
Our THAAD Seeker is an integral part of the THAAD guidance system, using our advanced sensors to “seek” and lock onto incoming targets – enemy ballistic missiles moving up to 17,000 miles per hour – so that the guidance system can route the THAAD interceptor to the threat. As escalating security threats around the world have spurred the modernization of defense systems to deter aggression, BAE Systems has continually improved its sensor designs to advance performance of both precision-guided munitions (PGM) and electronic warfare (EW) systems.
A highly effective asset for the U.S. strategic arsenal
THAAD’s high-altitude intercept capability mitigates the potential effects of enemy intermediate- and short-range ballistic missiles – even hypersonic versions – before they reach the ground, and its non-explosive, hit-to-kill kinetic impact minimizes risk of detonation. As a worldwide leader in military and intelligence sensor technologies for over 40 years, BAE Systems is performing cutting edge sensor design work that enhances guidance capabilities and improves the THAAD missile defense system's ability to neutralize more threats while optimizing manufacturability.
THAAD is officially stated to be capable of intercepting ballistic missiles and the sort up to IRBM class but it can do better:
17000 miles per hour (MPH) = MACH 22+
This is ICBM territory and sufficient to cover Russian Avangard.
--- --- ---
IF a Hypersonic Cruise Missile (HCM) is used then:
--- --- ---
PAC-3 Cost Reduction Initiative (CRI) interceptor is sufficient to intercept sophisticated MRBM class targets:
Pershing II - USA (Test)
Burkan-3 - Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Combat situation)
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal - Ukraine (Combat situation)
PAC-3 Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) interceptor is a big leap from PAC-3 CRI:
Lockheed Martin integrates Patriot PAC-3 MSE missile into Mk 41 vertical launch system
The U.S. company Lockheed Martin was able to integrate the Patriot PAC-3 MSE missile interceptor into the Mk 41 vertical launch system. A new version of the surface-to-air missile was developed for this purpose.
Russian Avangard's best use is in locations where these air defense systems are not present. It can be used to deliver a nuclear payload to vulnerable locations in US mainland in the present, which is the stated goal anyways. Like this:
Russia, China, and the US are in a hypersonic weapons arms race — and officials warn the US could be falling behind
Comments by US officials about Russia and China's recent gains have led some to believe that the US is currently losing the race — but it's not that simple.
www.businessinsider.com
But US is not sitting idle and developing additional countermeasures:
US is developing Glide Breaker interceptor for the GMD system to intercept HGV types:
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/11...ith-both-offensive-and-defensive-hypersonics/
US is developing Next Generation Interceptor (NGI) for the GMD system to intercept HGV types:
Northrop Grumman completes first full-scale propellant mix for NGI SRM
Northrop Grumman has conducted the first full-scale propellant mix for its Next Generation Interceptor (NGI) solid rocket motors (SMR).
www.army-technology.com
Four Ways Lockheed Martin is Fueling Next Generation Interceptor
Lockheed Martin is demonstrating technologies with a focus on homeland missile defense, to ensure our customers can counter an evolving threat environment.
US is developing AEGIS Glide Phase Interceptor (GPI) to intercept HGV types:
https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefe...-legacy-as-it-designs-glide-phase-interceptor
DoD approves next step for GPI to defend against hypersonic missiles - Breaking Defense
"Industry has told us that they they think they can go faster, and we're hopeful that we can accelerate the program," said Laura DeSimone, Missile Defense Agency executive director.
----
The "constantly maneuvering via pseudo random manoeuvres" is NOT feasible:
The Physics and Hype of Hypersonic Weapons
These novel missiles cannot live up to the grand promises made on their behalf, aerodynamics shows
Russian Iskander-M is not an ordinary ballistic missile:
Iskander flies on a flattened trajectory, never exceeding an altitude of about 50 km. The R-17 (Scud-B) ballistic missile, by comparison, reaches a peak elevation of 80 to 90 km when covering a ground distance of 280 to 300 km. At altitudes below 50 km the air is dense enough to facilitate aerodynamic steering using the four small fins mounted at the Iskander’s tail end. In other words, Iskander can alter its flight path after the boost phase, and over its entire trajectory. When aided by satellite-navigation, receivers such as GPS or GLONASS (Globalnaya Navigazionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema), Iskander can make course corrections and reliably land within 20 to 50 meters of its designated target. Such accuracy allows Iskander to destroy targets dependably when armed with a conventional warhead, making it a very effective military weapon.
In-flight maneuverability, in addition to substantially enhancing accuracy, also complicates and compromises ballistic-missile defenses. Defenses can no longer precisely predict Iskander’s post-boost flight path, making it more difficult for the fire-control radar to calculate an anticipated interception point, without which the interceptor cannot be aimed with precision. Instead, the interceptor must fly to an approximated intercept point and rely on its kill-vehicle to make larger adjustments than would be otherwise needed as it makes a final approach to the target. The added unpredictability reduces intercept probabilities.
North Korea’s Newest Ballistic Missile: A Preliminary Assessment - 38 North: Informed Analysis of North Korea
On May 4, under the watchful eye of Kim Jong Un, North Korea launched a series of projectiles featuring two…
www.38north.org
Most of the flight path of the Iskander-M runs in shaky layers of the atmosphere at altitudes from 20 to 50 km (apogee). In the most neglected areas of atmospheric space, inaccessible to most of the modern air defense systems.
The speed of the warhead at the moment the main engine is shut off exceeds six speeds of sound.
The warhead is made with the technology of “stealth”. Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without aerodynamic surfaces of a large area. According to Western sources, on the outside of the warhead is additionally covered with radio-absorbing ferromagnetic paint. All this creates additional difficulties for its detection and interception by enemy air defense / missile defense systems.
However, as pointed out earlier, US has shown a considerable leap in computing technology, radar technology, rocketry, and satellite sensors since 1972. Artificial Intelligence (AI) is making smart alogrithims possible.
Motion State Recognition and Trajectory Prediction of Hypersonic Glide Vehicle Based on Deep Learning
US has created far more capable Patriot systems by now. Ukraine has provided evidence of a Patriot system intercepting Russian Kh-47M2 Kinzhal over Kyiv on 04-05-23:
American military technology updates and general discussion
Learn about the Stryker Family of Vehicles in following videos:
defence.pk
More were shot down over Kyiv on 16-05-23:
Don't Believe the Hype About Hypersonic Missiles
Hypersonic tech represents merely evolutionary change that isn't worth the price
spectrum.ieee.org
Poland is getting most advanced Patriot systems in the world in fact:
US IBCS Configuration for the Polish Patriot System
<p><strong>The “US configuration for the Patriot air/missile defence system” in case of the Polish Wisła programme translates into the Polish system including the IBCS solution. In 2022, when the first batteries are scheduled for delivery, IBCS software component of the Polish system would be...
defence24.com
IBCS is envisioned by the Army to be used as a single command and control system for the Air and Missile Defence, to be used against all the kinds of threats, ranging from Rocket, Artillery and Mortars, UAVs, cruise missiles, fast attack aircraft that are flying inside atmoshpere, helicopters, ballistic missiles that are present both inside and outside the atmosphere. Ultimately that will be joined by the High Velocity/Hypervelocity Missiles, where you need to take into account how do you engage this kind of threat in various stages of flight. The Hypervelocity missiles are changing their trajectory in various stages of flight, so they are more difficult to defeat than ballistic missiles, but the capability to counter hypersonic missiles will be integrated with IBCS, just as another emerging threat such as drone swarms
IBCS and Polish Patriot Systems Are Making Progress
The Integrated Battle Command System, which is being introduced to the US Army Air and Missile Defense Forces as well as to the Polish Armed Forces within the Polish Wisła project, is being prepared for the Full-Rate Production. Simultaneously, its capabilities are being developed. Deliveries...
defence24.com
Northrop Grumman’s IBCS Approved For Full Rate Production, Readying Transformational System For Fielding Around the Globe
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – April 13, 2023 – The United States Defense Department has approved Full Rate Production for Northrop Grumman Corporation’s (NYSE: NOC) Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS). The decision scales the U.S. Army’s ability to field the...
You cannot expect from an average journalist around the world to convey these realities to you.
See above.
Americans have [already] produced most advanced air defense systems in the world that are capable of intercepting different types of ballistic missiles (and hypersonic missiles) in different capacities but there are capability gaps in this domain that US will plug with a new generation of interceptors in coming years. However, Iran does not posit much of a threat to US in this domain - Fattah is interesting development and definitely an achievement for Iran but nothing that US cannot counter and make it possible for Israel to not counter.
Iran is trying to catch up with times much like other regional powers, bro. This is the penultimate truth.
It looks like many in Asian countries have no idea how capable American Defense sector is:
MH.Yang
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From 2011 to 2014, the Syrian govt army faced a desperate situation, but Assad's response was excellent.
In Syrian, the Syrian opposition occupies most of the country. Most members of the original Syrian government army defected, and the rebels once occupied the outskirts of Damascus and even invaded the urban areas.
Internationally, Gaddafi died, Mubarak was imprisoned, Syria was expelled from the Arab League, and was sanctioned by the West.
The USA publicly declares that it has vowed to overthrow the Syrian govt. Plz note that that was the USA in 2011, much stronger than the current USA. At that time, the trade war between China and the USA had not yet begun, and China was not willing to directly intervene in the Syrian war. The Crimean incident has not yet occurred, and Russia also maintains good relations with the USA.
At that time, Assad was almost alone in confronting the rebels, the Arab League, and the Western world. The only steadfast support for him is Iran and the Shia forces led by Iran.
Assad faced the siege of the world's most powerful force, but he did not fear or retreat. Many people do not realize that it was not until 2014 that the Russian military entered Syria. In the first few years, only Iran went all out to support Assad.
From 2011 to 2014, it was the most desperate three years for the Syrian govt, and every day of these three years, the Syrian govt may perish. Other external forces, including Russia, were only willing to enter the battlefield after seeing the excellent performance of the Syrian govt army.
In this terrible situation, Assad, who was not originally trained as a politician but was temporarily promoted to power after his elder brother's death, persisted. No matter how critical the situation may be and how desperate it may be, Assad was stay in Damascus without leaving or giving up. Assad fought against the rebels, the religious order, ISIS, and Kurds, even the USA and Israel launched air strikes in person, Assad did not admit defeat.
Syria's performance is far stronger than that of other Arab countries in several Arab–Israeli War. If Egypt and other countries can persist to the end, do not negotiate, do not surrender, and are willing to continue the war for more than a decade like Syria, Israel, which lacks depth, has no chance of winning.
At that time, almost all people felt that the Assad govt was going to die, but Assad refused to give in. He spoke on television every day to encourage the Syrian people and the Syrian govt army. He refuted various accusations and slanders from the West against him. At that time, no one believed he could persist, and everyone felt that he was the next Gaddafi.
Let's compare Assad and Zelensky. The crisis of annihilation in Ukraine only lasted for a month, and the Russian army left after a month on the outskirts of Kiev. However, Syrian rebels besieged Damascus for more than four years, and the urban area even entered street battles. At the most critical moment of the situation, the rebels even occupied the General Staff of the Syrian Army, less than 5km away from the presidential palace where Assad was stationed.
Mariupol and Bakhmut are kindergarten level wars, if Ukraine is compared with Syria's countless bloody tug of war in the past decade.
The siege of Deir ez-Zor lasted 2267 days from 2011 to 2017, including 4 years when the Syrian government forces were completely besieged.
The Battle of Dongguta, a small town only a few kilometers away from Damascus, was occupied by rebels in 2011 and was not taken by government forces until 2018.
The Battle of Aleppo lasted from February 2012 to December 2016, with daily exchanges of fire for four years.
The front line of the Ukrainian war is an arc, while the Syrian war is fought everywhere, with 80% of the country in war zones. The front of the Syrian war is not a line, but a net. But Assad won.
As the USA continues to weaken, its global military expansion continues to shrink. The Syrian government is constantly reclaiming lost land. This year, the Syrian government, which had been expelled by the Arab League for 12 years, returned to the League. This is an epic victory, and Assad is an epic hero.
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Philosopher
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Challenging in practise, I said on paper it is relatively easier.
Soviet's first Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) test followed by Sputnik launch in 1957 convinced United States (US) to develop Nike-Zeus system, which was equipped with nuclear-tipped interceptors. Nuclear explosion compensated for lack of accuracy at the time. US decided to improve Nike-Zeus system under Nike-X project but it was cancelled due to ballooning costs in favor of the Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) treaty with Soviet Union in 1972.
But US has shown a considerable leap in computing technology, radar technology, rocketry, and satellite sensors since 1972. All of these advances are coming together to realize and produce incredibly sophisticated air defense systems that can detect, track, and intercept different types of missiles with "precision." Americans describe this process as being akin to hitting a bullet with bullet.
US withdrew from ABM treaty in 2001 and has developed a number of air defense systems that have verified capability to intercept ballistic missiles.
Patriot system:
AEGIS SM-6 option:
Last night the United States Navy tracked and intercepted the most capable and maneuverable ballistic missile deployed in the Pacific today, a target missile, representing the Dong- Feng 21 Chinese “carrier killer.” On this intercept the SM-6 was employed in a salvo firing, launching one missile following another, for increased Probability of Kill (PK).
“Fireball, We’re Taking It Down!” - Defense Update:
Last night th United States Navy tracked and intercepted the most capable and maneuverable ballistic missile deployed in the Pacific today, a target missile, representing the Dong- Feng 21 Chinese "carrier killer." The new medium target missile was flown for the first time on May 17, launching...
Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system:
AEGIS SM-3 option:
Ground-Based Midcourse Defense (GMD) system:
The two multistage, solid fuel boosters were each tipped with a state-of-the-art exo-atmospheric kill vehicle. They propelled from silos and punctured the earth's atmosphere at thousands of feet per second, bound for a violent collision in space with a sophisticated ICBM-like target launched from more than 5,000 miles away.
The test, known as Flight Test Ground-based Interceptor 11, or simply FTG-11, concluded within minutes as the two GBIs successfully hit their marks, obliterating them high above earth. FTG-11 was the first-ever salvo test of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense system and at its core were National Guard Soldiers representing Alaska, California and Colorado.
"This was the most significant flight test in the history of missile defense," said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Strawbridge, 100th Missile Defense Brigade director of operations. "To compare it to something else in human history, I would liken it to space travel or putting a man on the moon. It was that complex."
The test took less than an hour, but it was the culmination of years of work, planning, training and development.
National Guard Soldiers at forefront of most significant test in missile defense history
FTG-11 was the first-ever salvo test of the Ground-based Midcourse Defense system and at its core were National Guard Soldiers representing Alaska, California and Colorado.
Other countries have come up with following solutions:
Russian S-500 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class but Russian claims shall be regarded with caution due to lack of evidence.
Chinese HQ-19/SC-19 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
European Aster 30-SAMP/T system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to SRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Israeli Barak 8 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to SRBM class based on performance in the the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
Iskander missiles were intercepted by Israeli-made Barak-8 air defense, says Armenia
Armenia confirmed earlier that the Iskander missile was intercepted by the Azerbaijani military a few days before the end of the armed conflict in Karabakh. As it turned out, the Russian tactical m…
Indian Advanced Air Defense (AAD) system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Indian Prithvi Air Defense (PAD) system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here.
Israeli Arrow-2 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments in here (developed with American assistance)
Israeli Arrow-3 system = capability to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to MRBM class based on documented experiments (developed with American assistance)
Sure, but the discussion is not about whether ballistic missile defences exists today. We are talking about HGVs:
It is important to understand HOW an Hypersonic Glide Vehicle (HGV) can evade a particular air defense system.
GMD system and AEGIS SM-3 option are designed to intercept ballistic missiles and the sort up to ICBM class in exo-atmospheric conditions. Russian Avangard is launched from an ICBM but it will descend and glide in endo-atmospheric conditions to avoid GMD system and/or AEGIS SM-3 option and reach its designated target in US mainland:
U.S. Hypersonic Weapons and Alternatives
CBO analyzes the hypersonic missiles being developed by the U.S. military and compares them with less expensive existing or potential weapons that might fill similar roles, such as cruise missiles or ballistic missiles.
Russian Avangard can avoid GMD system and/or AEGIS SM-3 option but not every type of air defense system out there subject to HOW it is used (or its designated target).
There is no air defence out there that has been shown to be able to shoot down a system like avangard. Until this happens, all this "ifs" and "hows" are just conjectures/ ideas on papers.
Look at what the US top general stated just in 2021:
America May Have Found the Secret to Killing Hypersonic Missiles
“Hypersonics have been hyped up to be unprecedented, game-changing weapons.” But that may not be the case.
nationalinterest.org
Can Russia’s Avangard Hypersonic Glide Vehicle be intercepted? - Naval Post- Naval News and Information
The defense against Russian Avangard missile, and other Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles
--- --- ---
IF an American Aircraft Carrier is the target:
--- --- ---
US has conducted its first HGV intercept experiment in 2020 to evaluate AEGIS SM-6 option in this capacity.
US has developed AEGIS SM-6 Block 1B interceptor to intercept HGV types:
The Sea Based Terminal (SBT) program, with the Aegis Baseline 9 Weapon System and SM-6 missile, is instrumental in MDA’s efforts to deliver a capability to the Navy to defend high value assets at sea and ashore against advanced threats in the terminal phase of flight. SBT is an incremental and evolving capability for ballistic and regional hypersonic defense capability.
Missile Defense Agency Test Successfully Intercepts Ballistic Missile Target
PACIFIC OCEAN -- The U.S. Missile Defense Agency, in cooperation with the U.S. Navy, successfully conducted Flight Test Aegis Weapon System 31 Event 1a (FTM-31 E1a).The test demonstrated thewww.pacom.mil
Notice their wording, "evolving capability" i.e not really existent at the moment. Like I explained to you yesterday, the issue is not whether they will eventually find a system that can deal with HGV to some degree. The issue is when that system will be available in numbers. From my perspective, at least not in the next 10 years.
Is there a single test of THAAD shooting down a hypersonic glide missile? These are nothing but claims.
Is it impossible for THAAD to shoot down a HGV? no. It would be quite situational for a THAAD to intercept a HGV, for example defending a highly specific area would allow a relative slow HGV during its terminal phase to be intercepted- however, this depends on many factors such as reactions times. Moreover, a system like Iranian Fattah is acually more capable than its wedge shaped HGV counerpart in the terminal phase as it has a sustainer motor which kicks in late to give it a increase in speed during the end game.
--- --- ---
IF a Hypersonic Cruise Missile (HCM) is used then:
--- --- ---
PAC-3 Cost Reduction Initiative (CRI) interceptor is sufficient to intercept sophisticated MRBM class targets:
Pershing II - USA (Test)
Burkan-3 - Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Combat situation)
Kh-47M2 Kinzhal - Ukraine (Combat situation)
PAC-3 Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) interceptor is a big leap from PAC-3 CRI:
Lockheed Martin integrates Patriot PAC-3 MSE missile into Mk 41 vertical launch system
The U.S. company Lockheed Martin was able to integrate the Patriot PAC-3 MSE missile interceptor into the Mk 41 vertical launch system. A new version of the surface-to-air missile was developed for this purpose.gagadget.com
Hypersonic cruise missiles are a separate discussion. On paper, they are relatively easier to deal with than HGVs.
The Physics and Hype of Hypersonic Weapons
These novel missiles cannot live up to the grand promises made on their behalf, aerodynamics shows
The issue with hypersonic cruise missiles is that they fly well within the atmosphere, meaning for them to be 'hypersonic' they need to fly as high as a possible (making them vulnerable to radar).
That said, physical limitations may constrain the missile’s effectiveness against mobile platforms. First of all, missiles travelling at hypersonic speeds ionise the air around them and generate a plasma layer which makes external guidance and the use of onboard sources of data (such as active seekers) extremely difficult. This likely necessitates very precise inertial sensors, among other things, to enable a missile to navigate towards its target. Moreover, because the missile’s plasma layer precludes the use of active radar and other onboard sensors to track a target vessel in the terminal phase, the missile likely has to slow down to well short of hypersonic speeds in order to track mobile targets. In its final approach towards a target, the missile may not be appreciably faster than missiles such as its predecessor, the P-800. This may be less of a challenge when targeting fixed ground targets, where the missile does not need to use an active seeker and thus does not need to slow down to mitigate the effects of a plasma layer. Secondly, in order to maintain the air pressure needed for the operation of a scramjet engine, a hypersonic cruise missile needs to maintain an altitude of around 20 km for most of its flight. As such, it is not obvious that the 3M22 can approach its target on a low-altitude skimming trajectory, and it will likely become visible to a ship’s radar at greater distances than a low-flying (if slower) missile. It is possible that the missile can descend to a lower-altitude trajectory in its terminal phase having cruised to this point at a higher altitude, but at this point it has likely slowed to a speed short of Mach 5.
The Zircon: How Much of a Threat Does Russia’s Hypersonic Missile Pose?
Russian moves to operationalise the Zircon hypersonic missile represent an important development, but the significance – especially in terms of the current conflict – should not be overstated.
www.rusi.org
Moreover, in your link they have not mentioned hypersonic cruise missiles. No such claim seemed to be made there.
Well of course that would be true, but that's not to say those air defences could reliably deal with it.
It can be used to deliver a nuclear payload to vulnerable locations in US mainland in the present, which is the stated goal anyways. Like this:
Russia, China, and the US are in a hypersonic weapons arms race — and officials warn the US could be falling behind
Comments by US officials about Russia and China's recent gains have led some to believe that the US is currently losing the race — but it's not that simple.
That's why Iran has not gone for this version yet as it is more expensive and more useful for a non-conventional warhead- something which Iran has not declared to have (openly anyway).
Trying to develop countermeasures. When these claims end up showing some fruit then we can discuss them further. We are talking about their ability to deal with these systems today not what they hope to achieve in the future.
US is developing Next Generation Interceptor (NGI) for the GMD system to intercept HGV types:
Northrop Grumman completes first full-scale propellant mix for NGI SRM
Northrop Grumman has conducted the first full-scale propellant mix for its Next Generation Interceptor (NGI) solid rocket motors (SMR).
Four Ways Lockheed Martin is Fueling Next Generation Interceptor
Lockheed Martin is demonstrating technologies with a focus on homeland missile defense, to ensure our customers can counter an evolving threat environment.www.lockheedmartin.com
From your own link:
I don't see claims being made regarding HGVs.
US is developing AEGIS Glide Phase Interceptor (GPI) to intercept HGV types:
https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefe...-legacy-as-it-designs-glide-phase-interceptor
DoD approves next step for GPI to defend against hypersonic missiles - Breaking Defense
"Industry has told us that they they think they can go faster, and we're hopeful that we can accelerate the program," said Laura DeSimone, Missile Defense Agency executive director.breakingdefense.com
From your own link:
These are currently nothing but ideas on papers which have to be shown to actually work.
Moreover, according to CSIS:
Furthermore, these systems are not isolated, they requite quite extensive integrations of many different factors:
Therefore, the success of hypersonic defences requires many moving parts to works properly, until this is demonstrated everything is merely a future claim.
----
The "constantly maneuvering via pseudo random manoeuvres" is NOT feasible:
The Physics and Hype of Hypersonic Weapons
These novel missiles cannot live up to the grand promises made on their behalf, aerodynamics showswww.scientificamerican.com
You have not demonstrated how its not feasible. The post merely described simply how a HGV works. Yes, it loses energy as it glides, but its glide phase can be pseudo-random. Moreover, as explained earlier systems like Iranian Fattah are given a sustainer motor precisely to give it an extra kinematic boost at the end game allowing it to perform relatively more extensive AD defeat manoeuvres.
Remember, HGV systems are various in type and are also evolving in capability.
Interestingly, another recent Iranian missile: The Khoramshahr-4 also utilised pseudo-random maneuvers (albeit in a different way):
Russian Iskander-M is not an ordinary ballistic missile:
View attachment 933341
Iskander flies on a flattened trajectory, never exceeding an altitude of about 50 km. The R-17 (Scud-B) ballistic missile, by comparison, reaches a peak elevation of 80 to 90 km when covering a ground distance of 280 to 300 km. At altitudes below 50 km the air is dense enough to facilitate aerodynamic steering using the four small fins mounted at the Iskander’s tail end. In other words, Iskander can alter its flight path after the boost phase, and over its entire trajectory. When aided by satellite-navigation, receivers such as GPS or GLONASS (Globalnaya Navigazionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema), Iskander can make course corrections and reliably land within 20 to 50 meters of its designated target. Such accuracy allows Iskander to destroy targets dependably when armed with a conventional warhead, making it a very effective military weapon.
In-flight maneuverability, in addition to substantially enhancing accuracy, also complicates and compromises ballistic-missile defenses. Defenses can no longer precisely predict Iskander’s post-boost flight path, making it more difficult for the fire-control radar to calculate an anticipated interception point, without which the interceptor cannot be aimed with precision. Instead, the interceptor must fly to an approximated intercept point and rely on its kill-vehicle to make larger adjustments than would be otherwise needed as it makes a final approach to the target. The added unpredictability reduces intercept probabilities.
North Korea’s Newest Ballistic Missile: A Preliminary Assessment - 38 North: Informed Analysis of North Korea
On May 4, under the watchful eye of Kim Jong Un, North Korea launched a series of projectiles featuring two…www.38north.org
Most of the flight path of the Iskander-M runs in shaky layers of the atmosphere at altitudes from 20 to 50 km (apogee). In the most neglected areas of atmospheric space, inaccessible to most of the modern air defense systems.
The speed of the warhead at the moment the main engine is shut off exceeds six speeds of sound.
The warhead is made with the technology of “stealth”. Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without aerodynamic surfaces of a large area. According to Western sources, on the outside of the warhead is additionally covered with radio-absorbing ferromagnetic paint. All this creates additional difficulties for its detection and interception by enemy air defense / missile defense systems.
It is a "quasi" ballistic missile, but a ballistic missile nevertheless. In terms its manoeuvring, question is how much it manoeuvres and to what extent of it flight. There are many claims about iskander. We do not have enough confirmed info about this system to reliably discuss its vulnerabilities to various air defences.
AI will certainly help, but it is not a psychic. It may try to predict the trajectory, but unless all the HGVs show similar flight routes, then how is it going to predict the trajectory of a new missile? prediction relies on past informations.
What is Prediction in AI and Why is It Important?
Prediction allows organizations to make accurate guesses about outcomes to a question based on historical data.
This is one of the reasons that makes systems like Fattah so deadly. It's that inherent unpredictability they possess.
Not much evidence at all. Ukraine's claims must be taken with a large quantity of salt.
This:
Is not this:
American military technology updates and general discussion
Learn about the Stryker Family of Vehicles in following videos:defence.pk
More were shot down over Kyiv on 16-05-23:
Don't Believe the Hype About Hypersonic Missiles
Hypersonic tech represents merely evolutionary change that isn't worth the price
Little evidence of that. Many claims are coming out of Ukraine, including many propagada. I am not suprised, they use such news as moral boost. But reality is, there are many claims, but very little tangible evidence.
Poland is getting most advanced Patriot systems in the world in fact:
US IBCS Configuration for the Polish Patriot System
<p><strong>The “US configuration for the Patriot air/missile defence system” in case of the Polish Wisła programme translates into the Polish system including the IBCS solution. In 2022, when the first batteries are scheduled for delivery, IBCS software component of the Polish system would be...
IBCS is envisioned by the Army to be used as a single command and control system for the Air and Missile Defence, to be used against all the kinds of threats, ranging from Rocket, Artillery and Mortars, UAVs, cruise missiles, fast attack aircraft that are flying inside atmoshpere, helicopters, ballistic missiles that are present both inside and outside the atmosphere. Ultimately that will be joined by the High Velocity/Hypervelocity Missiles, where you need to take into account how do you engage this kind of threat in various stages of flight. The Hypervelocity missiles are changing their trajectory in various stages of flight, so they are more difficult to defeat than ballistic missiles, but the capability to counter hypersonic missiles will be integrated with IBCS, just as another emerging threat such as drone swarms
IBCS and Polish Patriot Systems Are Making Progress
The Integrated Battle Command System, which is being introduced to the US Army Air and Missile Defense Forces as well as to the Polish Armed Forces within the Polish Wisła project, is being prepared for the Full-Rate Production. Simultaneously, its capabilities are being developed. Deliveries...
Northrop Grumman’s IBCS Approved For Full Rate Production, Readying Transformational System For Fielding Around the Globe
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – April 13, 2023 – The United States Defense Department has approved Full Rate Production for Northrop Grumman Corporation’s (NYSE: NOC) Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS). The decision scales the U.S. Army’s ability to field the...news.northropgrumman.com
"Will be integrated". We will await to see if these claims ever materialise. I would not be holding my breath.
A defence journalist? sure they can. An average journalist would not be very clued up.
As mentioned previously, no evidence they can intercept any HGV/hypersonic missiles today. And claims regarding "coming years" will have to be substantiated if they ever occur.
There is no current US air defence than can deal with Fattah. We have described why many times in this thread already.
Hypersonic missiles are the forefront of missile technology, I don't consider it like other areas in which Iran is also developing.
We've had this discussion previously bro. I certainly agree US is a strong conventional power, but I feel you greatly overestimate them. They're not always ahead of the curve and in many domains, they're trying to catch up the the threats.
Having said that, I do appreciate a different perspective. A nation should, given the choice rather overestimate their opponent than underestimaet them. Don't feel I am deliberately underestimating the Americans. In this context, I (as do they) believe they are many years away from being able to reliably handle these HGVs on a individual basis. The issue of mass/swarming strike by a nation like Iran is another matter altogether.
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well most of the others don't have much population so that's pretty inevitable
but put turkey under a global economic embargo and see if they can do the same
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