Iran Protests - Irani Girls Burning Their Veils !!!

[SalarHaqq]

That is like saying a flag is just a piece of cloth. We can make anything into a symbol. Have you read anything on semiotics?

Semiotics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Semiotics (also called semiotic studies) is the systematic study of sign processes (semiosis) and meaning making. Semiosis is any activity, conduct, or process that involves signs, where a sign is defined as anything that communicates something, usually called a meaning, to the sign's interpreter. The meaning can be intentional such as a word uttered with a specific meaning, or unintentional, such as a symptom being a sign of a particular medical condition. Signs can also communicate feelings (which are usually not considered meanings) and may communicate internally (through thought itself) or through any of the senses: visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory (taste). Contemporary semiotics is a branch of science that studies meaning-making and various types of knowledge.​

A symbol is supposed to be a quick and visible rallying point for a belief, and that could be anything from a piece of cloth to a stylized piece of wood or metal. A house of worship is a symbol as well as serving a function. Iran have made a dress code into a symbol of/for Islam.

As said, the relevance of someone's clothing goes beyond the symbolic dimension. It has a wide range of social, cultural, even anthropological ramifications, which is why every country legislates its dress code. If you're deliberately narrowing down your perspective for the sake of controversy, you're wasting time.

More importantly, you don't seem to understand where I was getting at: I was addressing a user who employed the adjective 'private' in regards to hejab and based thereupon, argued against regulating it by law. What I wished to understand then, is how this squares with the same user's backing of legal punishment for acts of homosexuality and acts of intimacy outside marriage, which by the same token may also be considered as pertaining to the realm of privacy.

Now unless you happen to be in line with the above described view and would like to provide the answer to my question, your interjection is off topic and unrelated to the discussion I was having. Either way, user Indos expanded upon their position in another thread and I got my answer. So this is doubly pointless now.

 

[SecularNationalist]

The so called Moral Iranian enforcer are nothing but abusing their power on ordinary Iranian. The mass protest is a boiling point for large number of Iranian suffer under the abuse of moral officers who misuse their authority.

Yeah, the era of a family dynasty is simply gone. These khomenis are leeches of Iran sucking blood for decades. These days the educated mind simply cannot accept how one family has the right to govern the whole country. And how do they represent Iran as a whole?

 

[SalarHaqq]

Yeah, the era of a family dynasty is simply gone. These khomenis are leeches of Iran sucking blood for decades. These days the educated mind simply cannot accept how one family has the right to govern the whole country. And how do they represent Iran as a whole?

What family dynasty? Imam Khomeini (r.A.a.) and his successor Imam Khamenei (h.A.) aren't relatives. The Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution is elected by the Assembly of Experts, itself elected by the people. Kindly take note please.

 

[gambit]

As said, the relevance of someone's clothing goes beyond the symbolic dimension. It has a wide range of social, cultural, even anthropological ramifications, which is why every country legislates its dress code. If you're deliberately narrowing down your perspective for the sake of controversy, you're wasting time and bandwith.

As much as I am a libertarian, I do support a dress code, but that support is non-religious. If some day in the future, people are comfortable with complete nudity and conduct their lives, personal and business, absolutely bare assed nekkid, I will go along with that.

More importantly, you don't seem to understand where I was getting at: I was addressing a user who employed the adjective 'private' in regards to hejab and based thereupon, argued against regulating it by law. What I wished to understand then, is how this squares with the same user's backing of legal punishment for acts of homosexuality and acts of intimacy outside marriage, which by the same token may also be considered as pertaining to the realm of privacy.

Now unless you are in line with the above described view and would like to provide the answer to my question, your interjection is off topic and unrelated to the discussion I was having. Either way, user Indos expanded upon his position in another thread and I got my answer. So again, this is pointless now.

Personal contradictions and inconsistency of principles applied does not negate the umbrella belief -- that there is a measure of personal autonomy and privacy that the State, no matter how hard it tries, consistently failed to control. Most citizenry, all over the world, understands that for the sake of social/political order and stability, some measures of compliance to the State is necessary, even a libertarian like me get that, but sooner or later, the people will revolt over what they perceived to be excessive intrusions into the private realm and that is what is happening in Iran now. And this is where YOU failed to understand.

 

[Indos]

Let us say I want to turn my country into a theocracy, how could I do that?

First, I tell everyone of my religious beliefs. Some people converted, but most are blasé about it.

Next, I built a house of worship and show everyone about it. Some more people converted, but still not enough.

Next, I compel everyone to attend religious service at least once a week. Some more people converted, but still not enough.

The only thing left is to get closer and closer to their bodies. I can never convert their hearts, but at least I can use political power to affect their bodies. The country will never be completely religious in the people's hearts and souls, but at least we can APPEAR to be faithful. And that is important enough.

There is something wrong in Middle East, I mean the division between Islamist and Nationalist are great, this make when Islamist wins and get the power, they oppress the Nationalist (Happening in Iran and Saudi), when the Nationalist wins, they oppress Islamist (Egypt, Tunisian). Taliban also try to follow the same mistake.

The politics in Middle East is the winner takes All, this is not healthy for long term sustainability of any nation. We should do compromise and see the nation belongs to both Islamist and Nationalist (for Iranian context is Conservative and Moderates). This is why real democracy can heal the region but democracy should be effective and not corrupt either as people will just lose hope if corruption and rigging during election happen.

 

[SalarHaqq]

Personal contradictions and inconsistency of principles applied does not negate the umbrella belief -- that there is a measure of personal autonomy and privacy that the State, no matter how hard it tries, consistently failed to control. Most citizenry, all over the world, understands that for the sake of social/political order and stability, some measures of compliance to the State is necessary, even a libertarian like me get that, but sooner or later, the people will revolt over what they perceived to be excessive intrusions into the private realm and that is what is happening in Iran now. And this is where YOU failed to understand.

Once again you failed to grasp what I was talking about. I must thus repeat: do you support legal sanctions against acts of homosexuality and acts of intimacy outside marriage, yes or no? If yes, explain how that would square with the notion that hejab ought not be regulated on grounds that it is a private matter. If no, then you're off topic.

I was not simply discussing whether or not Iran's dress code constitutes an intrusion into the private realm, or whether or not this is bound to get people to revolt. That's another topic. If you want to debate another issue, say so but don't contend you were actually addressing the statement of mine you quoted.

As to your belief exposed here, any dress code is by definition a regulation of public life. And there's no objective, universal standard to determine what pieces of clothing qualify as objects of legislation - in practice, every visible garment does.

Moreover, you're making use of the term 'the people' without taking into account the multiplicity of opinions, and more importantly, that of the majority, which is not that which you assume it to be, nor has it been that which you apparently assume it has been from the start of the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

 

[SalarHaqq]

when Islamist wins and get the power, they oppress the Nationalist (Happening in Iran and Saudi),

In what way are the nationalists oppressed in Iran?

the nation belongs to both Islamist and Nationalist (for Iranian context is Conservative and Moderates). This is why real democracy can heal the region

In Iran principlists and reformists / moderates alternate at the helm of the governmental administration and as the parliamentary majority. Both currents have therefore had access to the levers of powers.

 

[gambit]

There is something wrong in Middle East, I mean the division between Islamist and Nationalist are great, this make when Islamist wins and get the power, they oppress the Nationalist (Happening in Iran and Saudi), when the Nationalist wins, they oppress Islamist (Egypt, Tunisian). Taliban also try to follow the same mistake.

The politics in Middle East is the winner takes All, this is not healthy for long term sustainability of any nation. We should do compromise and see the nation belongs to both Islamist and Nationalist (for Iranian context is Conservative and Moderates). This is why real democracy can heal the region but democracy should be effective and not corrupt either as people will just lose hope if corruption and rigging during election happen.

How did Islamists got into power in the first place? My question is less about Islamists in particular but about political factions in general. As in, how does a political faction got voted into power? Assuming the people voted me in, how did I got so many people to cast their votes for me? By appealing to their personal beliefs and desires. Everyone is vulnerable to such appeal methods to some degrees. So if a religious faction got voted in, that mean there must have been a large bloc of the people who approved of that religious faction.

So...What next for me now that I am in power? To preserve my standing, I must take steps to prevent ideological and political challenges. I cannot allow even discussions, let alone debates, of my policies. I used democratic methods to gain power, now I must do away with those methods. The formula works.

Once again you failed to grasp what I was talking about. Once more: do you support legal sanctions against acts of homosexuality and acts of intimacy outside marriage, yes or no? If yes, explain how that would square with the notion that hejab ought not be regulated on grounds that it is a private matter. If no, then you're blatantly off topic.

Personally, DO NOT. So I am consistent in my beliefs and the applications thereof.

So just because you find personal inconsistency among people and their beliefs, that justifies controls of the people?

 

[SalarHaqq]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1573293978207789056

 

[HydraChess]

That is why you lick white asses in Canada and i am enjoying my time in my country.

Well, telling yourself that you are enjoying is comfortable and given how raw of a deal you have got in Bosnia, I think its okay to believe in it. A lie is not always evil. Your white lie of comfort in Bosnia is totally fine my friend.

That being said, when you feel frustrated and boxed in, send me a PM. I am here to help you escape your predicament.

Okay? Cya!

 

[hussain0216]

The Iranian government will crush this movement. And we'll forget it in 6 months.

I don't even care now


The weird thing is if these protests requested a fair trial and investigation

Change to law to allow people a choice, it would receive widescale support



Instead the USUAL SUSPECTS
white saviour
Uber liberal Iranian refugee types
Gay pride weirdos
The usual anti Islam Jew, Hindu anti Muslim types
Add retarded dancing and cutting, burning Hijab retarded behaviour and suddenly the support goes out the window and you want the Iranians to break these fcukers skulls

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You over estimate India's relationship with Iran. It has nothing to do Islam or anything. Its purely monetary one. Don't worry, Iran will always have an adversorial relation with Pakistan and that means there will be space for India and Iran to work together. That and whenever India and Iran can work together a deal for selling hydrocarbons.

Ever wonder why China is the biggest trade partner to USA while they had the biggest feud in the world? Or why Russia and China are allies while former has a territorial dispute with later? Its called RealPolitk.

It requires brains to understand. Something a Paksitani living in Serbia can never have .

China has no territorial dispute with Russia. All mutual claims were dropped in the 1990's. The only active dispute is with India.

China's biggest trade partner is ASEAN.

ASEAN remains China's No.1 trade partner from Jan to Apr, accounting for 14.6% of total trade - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

 

[sammuel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1573293978207789056

i see you came to peddle your fanatic ideas here , after the Iranians members kicked you of the Iranian chill thread :

Iranian Chill Thread

Guys, now when my country is finally waking up, do you think Iran can help Russia with not just drones, but also with body armour and other related stuff that are needed to equip a soldier? I wont be surprised if there were talks in this regard. Is Iran producing enough of these kind of stuff...

defence.pk

hiding behind long crafted words and sentences , would not change the basic fact , that you support bigots and wish to force people to do something against their obvious will , only cause you said so.

Why don't you wear hijab if you like it so much.



Warning ! ! ! do not watch this clip if you are easily offended , it contains disturbing images of woman with their hair visible ! ! ! :

~

 

[kingQamaR]

Terrible scenes. The only enemy of the Iranian people are their so called leaders with their extreme interpretation of their religion.

 

[Menthol]

That Iranian, Saudi, Taliban has made Islam seems difficult, although Islam is simple and easy.

Narrated by Abu Hurairah: The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said,

“Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by offering the Salat (prayers) in the mornings, afternoons, and during the last hours of the night.”
(Shahih Bukhari 39, Book 2, Hadith 32)

I extremely agree with this.

Religion is actually extremely simple and basic, but we humans love to make it complicated.