Iran arrests Azeri nationals for spying

[Targon]

Surenas because if someone got defeated its because you're mighty but if you got defeated you were in bad conditions.

Nobody fought for glory of Iran, every dynasty fought for its own glory, stop this nationalist bs.

 

[Arian]

Arian

Turks of Anatolia and Azeri Turks were no different at all, both were simply called Turk or Turkmen, dialect was almost same, they were the same people until sect difference started, in fact a considerable amount of Azeri Turks went to Iran and Azerbaijan from Anatolia and Syria.

Btw Ottomans never aimed to invade Iran.

Well, racially speaking, they do have some differences. Anatolian Turks and Central Asian and Caucasian people have ethnic differences. You know, it's like Arabs. They come from very different backgrounds and ethnics, but they all are considered Arabs (Arabic to more precise), because they speak the Arabic language. For example the Lebanese and Syrians are completely different from Saudis in almost every aspect, but because they speak the same language, they all are called Arabs. This is while Syria, for herself, was one of the main cultures of the Middle East backing when, and the Lebanese were actually Phoenicians who were closer to the Syriac people that are racially closer to the Mediterranean race, but the Saudis are closer to Afro-semites. But still, they all are called Arabs.

Kurds, Baluchs, Gilakis, Pashtuns, Hazaras, Tajiks, Lurs, etc,... all are Iranic, but they have very notable differences as well. Just like the case of Turkic and Arabic peoples. So I think it could get a very technical discussion which I'm not capable of handling it since my profession is something else. It really needs a professor who masters these things to talk about this stuff.

 

[Gaara]

Arian

Turks of Anatolia and Azeri Turks were no different at all, both were simply called Turk or Turkmen, dialect was almost same, they were the same people until sect difference started, in fact a considerable amount of Azeri Turks went to Iran and Azerbaijan from Anatolia and Syria.

Btw Ottomans never aimed to invade Iran.

True but they did invade some parts of Iran for 20 years.

 

[Surenas]

Surenas because if someone got defeated its because you're mighty but if you got defeated you were in bad conditions.

Indeed. We were defeated when we faced our darkest period. After we ruled the Middle East for more than thousands of years.

Nobody fought for glory of Iran, every dynasty fought for its own glory, stop this nationalist bs.

Yes, they fought for the glory of Iran and its people.

 

[Gaara]

He meant after the Islamic invasion of Persia. He knows it well that if we add over 1500 years that Persians and also Kurds (during the Median empire) had ruled over Iran then 392 will be changed significantly.

Of course, I know that. That's why I said "since 1040"

@Era_923, you need to read more carefully what is written.

 

[Arian]

True but they did invade some parts of Iran for 20 years.

Yea, so did Iran. Even during the Persian Achaemenid empire, all of today's Turkey was part of the Persian Achaemenid empire. That's natural, because we are neighbors and have lived here for thousands of years.

Surenas because if someone got defeated its because you're mighty but if you got defeated you were in bad conditions.

Nobody fought for glory of Iran, every dynasty fought for its own glory, stop this nationalist bs.

Indeed. The kings always fought for their own glory and expansion of their own domain. The idea of nationalism is relatively new because in older times one might have seen the ruling of several different nationalities on his region during his life time.

Why is the era after Arab's invasion more important than times before invasion?
I know what they are following here,they just want to hear we say that 'Turks ruled Iran for many years'.But that's not true,because As I said before,I don't care about they race and that were they came from originally,the important part is that they contributed to Persian language,culture and heritage more than anyone.If they had any love for Ottomans or Turkish culture,they would adapt that.That's why I consider them Iranian.

Here is an example: If a guy migrates to U.S from Germany,become its citizen and live there for 30 years,then he becomes the president of U.S,He will be called 'American president',not 'German president'.Because he serves the interests of American people,not Germans. "He is now an American"
btw,I'm really sick of this conversation,I don't know about you Arian,you have more patience than me.But what we are doing here is going nowhere.Because all their talks and intentions come from this fact that they are saying all this,because they are Turks,Don't you see how he insists us to confess that 'Turks were ruling Iran'?It reminds me of some kids who insist they parents to say some specific word or buy something,otherwise,they would continue crying.

I know what you mean. You're right, but they know it perfectly well that Persians have ruled over Iran for over 1800 years with no doubt. But he was merely talking about Iran after Islam.

 

[Gaara]

Yea, so did Iran. Even during the Persian Achaemenid empire, all of today's Turkey was part of the Persian Achaemenid empire. That's natural, because we are neighbors and have lived here for thousands of years..

Stop bending the history. We were not in Anatolia back then so it was not neither Turkey nor Turks, the Achaemenid Empire governed.

 

[Targon]

No they're not according what you say that ? thats completely nationalist bs

And when yo udefeated Turks its because you were mighty ?

Plus these wars are legends, barely have a base from those events.

 

[Arian]

Stop bending the history. We were not in Anatolia back then so it was not Turkey, the Achaemenid Empire governed.

I'm not distorting history, the region that is today's Turkey was ruled by the Achaemenid dynasty and later Persian dynasties for more than a century. Now if you don't like it, you could say you guys weren't in Anatolia. We called that region 'minor Asia' for thousands of years and the most important place in there for us was probaly Ionia (Hence the name Yunan that means Greece in Persian). We also took the control of Baghdad from the Ottomans for several years, we controlled Van in Turkey and some other places for several years. It's not a dick measuring contest my friend, we're just pointing out history and how both nation interacted with each other in different historical periods.

 

[Surenas]

No they're not according what you say that ? thats completely nationalist bs

And when yo udefeated Turks its because you were mighty ?

Plus these wars are legends, barely have a base from those events.

There are historians who confirm those wars and you say those wars are legends? Funny.

Fact is that Iran was heavily weakened when the Arabs and Turks invaded Iran.

When you want to compare things, you should look at when empires where at the height of their empire. That sounds fair, isn't it?

 

[Targon]

Why you're repeating yourself ? I'm exactly telling the that, when Iran is captured you say its because Iran is weakened(which is in fact not, Seljuks had a very serious rival, Ghaznavids), but you're showing examples of wars and claiming its because you were mighty.

Details of those wars coming from legends thats why those are not reliable, take the second war on hand, legendary sources says 300 000 numbered enemy is defeated and their leader is killed, numbers are exaggeration, and the leader is not killed how we will believe on those accounts ? in fact Tong Yabghu considered as one of the most successfull Qaghans of Western Turkic Khaghanate and there was nothing unusual in his rule.

 

[Ir.Tab.]

There are historians who confirm those wars and you say those wars are legends? Funny.

Fact is that Iran was heavily weakened when the Arabs and Turks invaded Iran.

When you want to compare things, you should look at when empires where at the height of their empire. That sounds fair, isn't it?

There was not Iran as a country about 100 years ago. Iranshahr was a city in Sistan & Baluchestan. Kasravi ndicated that in Safavid era, government had named the un-turkic speaking areas as Iran which shows how respect they have regards to other races (you know what Iran means). The meaning of Iran today, is far further important than historical stories. It directly implies various races united as a great nation.

And a hint about the result of that experience of wars between Persian (not Iranian) and other Races, in my opinion that was not wise to rise hostility with all nations around! Non of clever men wants to experience it again. My brother, never do try to break the peace ties between races in Iran. That is the dirtiest thing one could do about his country. The person does it, is not patriot but a cheap racist.

Thanks to those who never mix nationality with race issue. And those two poets just arrested, officially that not means they are guilty, yet.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

you are trying to do seperation tactics now , the safavid and ottoman rivalry was totally based on religion , RELIGION , SHIA AND SUNNI , OTTOMANS WAS THE KHALIFAT OF MUSLIM WORLD AND HAD RIVALRY BECAUSE SAFAVIDS WERE SPRADING SHIA

So what about the Naqsh-e Jahan square that was built during the Safavid era? I don't understand what you mean, they used both Persian and Azeri languages, but Persian was the official language. There are tons of documents regarding that, even wikipedia could help you.

Read Safavid page on wikipedia, that would give you the least knowledge regarding them from a neutral source (not the Iranian government, nor the Azerbaijani government).

For the second time:



Their capitals:



I don't know why you want to insist that they were Turkish, They hated the Ottomans and both empires had several clashes with each other. This is a famous quote from Shah Abbas:



Now go and claim they were Turks. LOOOL.

 

[Arian]

you are trying to do seperation tactics now , the safavid and ottoman rivalry was totally based on religion , RELIGION , SHIA AND SUNNI , OTTOMANS WAS THE KHALIFAT OF MUSLIM WORLD AND HAD RIVALRY BECAUSE SAFAVIDS WERE SPRADING SHIA

Pardon me, no need to write with capital letters. take a look at the geographical map. You are separated now, and you were separated. Like it or not. Iran is Iran and Turkey is Tukey, two different countries.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

modern day but thats no turkish people , seljuks and other Turkics ruled iran for hundres of years

Seriously?You discoverd that all by yourself?where exactly in history did Ottomans rule Iran?They had some aggression toward Iran,captured very few lands,but thanks to Shah Abbas,they were taught a lesson that they never tried to attack Iran systematically again until their collapse in WWI.

So Persians ruled Iran for 392 years?From 600 BC (when Turks were non existent in ME and Anatolia and modern Turkey was under Persian empire) to Arabs invasion in middle 600 Ad,and 200 years after that,Persians ruled Iran (Samanids, Khwarizmids,Taherids and etc),it account for 1400 years.

What do you have to say for Persian rule on Turkey?Modern Turkey was a part of Persian empires for almost 600 years,you can't deny your history,some time ago,they found an underground city in Turkey who was established by Sassanians,A Persian empire.
About Qajars and Safavid s,we still consider them Iranian,because they were defined by Persian language and culture.**** race, because I don't care about it.

considering iran got ruled by nearly all turkic empires since like 1000 , you got ruled alot and also iranians were living there , unlike when you ruled modern day turkey we wasnt even living in that region

I'm not distorting history, the region that is today's Turkey was ruled by the Achaemenid dynasty and later Persian dynasties for more than a century. Now if you don't like it, you could say you guys weren't in Anatolia. We called that region 'minor Asia' for thousands of years and the most important place in there for us was probaly Ionia (Hence the name Yunan that means Greece in Persian). We also took the control of Baghdad from the Ottomans for several years, we controlled Van in Turkey and some other places for several years. It's not a dick measuring contest my friend, we're just pointing out history and how both nation interacted with each other in different historical periods.