Iran arrests Azeri nationals for spying

[ASQ-1918]

Ottoman-Safavid rivalry was itself a Turkic rivalry, based on Sunni-Shia conflict. In fact, Safavids had retained a more Turkic culture compared to Ottomans. Look at titles of Safavids, Khan, Beglerbegi, Qorchu, Yasavul. Eshik Aghasibashi, Chalchibashi, Kanuqibashi etc...

For instance the Safavid army that met Ottoman army at Battle of Chaldiran was more Turkic, a large part of Ottoman army consisted of non-Turks (Janissaries) while all of Safavid army was Turkic.

Shah Ismail wrote a letter to Sultan Selim Yavuz in Azeri before Battle of Chaldiran, it still survives to this day in Istanbul;

"Mən pirimi haqq bilirəm,
Yoluna qurban olaram,
Dün doğuldum bugün ölləm,
Ölən gəlsin budur meydan!"

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

biggest mistake turks done was to fight between themselves , also janissaries where non-turk at the first stages when ottoman were conquering territory and needed alot of soldiers , later on many turks was init aswell as it changed from a non-christian type thing to a more main backbone , and the spahi's were turk , but lessons to be learned we shouldnt war with each other.

Ottoman-Safavid rivalry was itself a Turkic rivalry, based on Sunni-Shia conflict. In fact, Safavids had retained a more Turkic culture compared to Ottomans. Look at titles of Safavids, Khan, Beglerbegi, Qorchu, Yasavul etc...

For instance the Safavid army that met Ottoman army at Battle of Chaldiran was more Turkic, a large part of Ottoman army consisted of non-Turks (Janissaries) while all of Safavid army was Turkic.

Shah Ismail wrote a letter to Sultan Selim Yavuz in Azeri before Battle of Chaldiran, it still survives to this day in Istanbul;

"Mən yolumu haqq bilirəm,
Yoluna qurban olaram,
Dün doğuldum bugün ölləm,
Ölən gəlsin budur meydan!"

 

[Targon]

Ottomans used Turkic titles and terms too.

 

[ASQ-1918]

For the second time:

Language(s)

Persian (official,[5] coinage,[6][7] civil administration,[8] court (since Isfahan became capital),[9] high literature,[8] literary,[6][10] theological discourse,[6] diplomatic correspondence, belles-lettres (adab), historiography,[11] court-based religious posts[12])

Azerbaijani (court, religious dignitaries, military)[11][13][14][15]

Their capitals:

Capital

Tabriz
(1501–1555)
Qazvin
(1555–1598)
Isfahan
(1598–1722)

And what are you exactly arguing Arian? As you yourself just admit what said earlier.

The language they used in court, the language of religious rituals, and the language of military was Azeri Turkish, as you yourself admit. Administration language was Persian, which no one denies, as the Empire they ruled consisted mostly of non-Turkic groups, only Azerbaijan was Turkic.

Their first and original capital was Tabriz-Azerbaijan, as you yourself admit, and also where Shah Ismail was enthroned.

The only reason why the capital was relocated from Tabriz was that Ottomans sacked Tabriz (Safavid capital at the time) after battle of Chaldiran, and to avoid this happening again they moved the capital into a bit "deeper" part of Empire, and later even "deeper" into Isfahan. It was a strategical choice. Tabriz-Azerbaijan was too vulnerable to Ottoman threat, as it was a border area. If Safavids had defeated Ottomans at Chaldiran battle, Tabriz would continue to serve as the Safavid capital, but Safavids lost Eastern Anatolia, and Ottomans became a door away from Tabriz.

But of course the most ironic part is that Isfahan was later sacked by Afghan rebels, while it was made capital in first place because it was deemed as most "safe" location in center of empire.

 

[Gaara]

And what are you exactly arguing Arian? As you yourself just admit what said earlier.

The language they used in court, the language of religious rituals, and the language of military was Azeri Turkish, as you yourself admit. Administration language was Persian, which no one denies, as the Empire they ruled consisted mostly of non-Turkic groups, only Azerbaijan was Turkic.

Their first and original capital was Tabriz-Azerbaijan, as you yourself admit, and also where Shah Ismail was enthroned.

The only reason why the capital was relocated from Tabriz was that Ottomans sacked Tabriz (Safavid capital at the time) after battle of Chaldiran, and to avoid this happening again they moved the capital into a bit "deeper" part of Empire, and later even "deeper" into Isfahan. It was a strategical choice. Tabriz-Azerbaijan was too vulnerable to Ottoman threat, as it was a border area. If Safavids had defeated Ottomans at Chaldiran battle, Tabriz would continue to serve as the Safavid capital, but Safavids lost Eastern Anatolia, and Ottomans became a door away from Tabriz.

But of course the most ironic part is that Isfahan was later sacked by Afghan rebels, while it was made capital in first place because it was deemed as most "safe" location in center of empire.

Thank you, my Turkish/Turkic brother. I couldn't explain it better that you did.

BTW, I think I saw in a post some of you believe that Azerbaijani Turks and Turkey's Turks are distant relatives. Well, that's completely wrong. Turkmenistan Turks, Azerbaijani Turks and Turkey's Turks are all from the same tribe, we are Oghuz Turks. Kazakistan, Kyrgyzistan and Uzbekistan Turks are from different tribes but they are still Turks just like Chuvashes, Tatars, Uyghurs, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauzs, Yakuts, Crimean Karaites, Krymchaks, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Nogais, ect... I am not saying they are Turani, I am exactly saying they are Turkish/Turkic.

 

[ASQ-1918]

And it is also true that there was no difference at all between Anatolian and Azerbaijani Turks of that time.

And besides, alot of Anatolian Turkmen tribes joined Safavids, and alot of tribes settled in (Iranian) Azerbaijan from Anatolia, aswell Syria. These Anatolian Turkoman tribes played a very important role in formation of Safavid Empire.

As I have told before, I'm from Qaradagh region, there was a Qaradagh Khanate in 17-19th centuries, and the Khan was from Tokmaklu clan of Ustaclu tribe, a tribe that originally moved to Azerbaijan from Anatolia during Safavid era.

A quote from wikipedia on how Safavid Empire was created;

"In the summer of 1500, about 7000 Qizilbash forces, consisted of Ustaclu, Shamlu, Rumlu, Tekelu, Zhulkadir, Afshar, Qajar and Varsak tribes, responded to the invitation of Ismail in Erzincan.[18] Qizilbash forces passed over the Kura River in November 1500, and marched towards the Shirvanshah's state. They defeated the forces under the Shirvanshah Farrukh Yassar near Cabanı (present-day Shamakhi Rayon, Azerbaijan), and conquered Baku.[19] In July 1501, Ismail was enthroned as Shah of Azerbaijan,[20] choosing Tabriz, Azerbaijan, as his capital."

Ustaclu, Shamlu, Rumlu, Varsak, Zulkadir and Tekelu were Turkoman tribes from Anatolia that initially joined Shah Ismail in his first military campaign.

 

[Surenas]

Traditionally, and until recent times, ethnicity has never been a defining separating criterion in these regions. In the words of Richard Nelson Frye:

''Many times I have emphasized that the present peoples of Central Asia, whether Iranian or Turkic speaking, have one culture, one religion, one set of social values and traditions with only language separating them.''

Case closed.

 

[Gaara]

Case closed.

Says who? You?
Who cares if the case is closed for you or not?
Case is closed when nobody wants to write about it anymore.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

How about local Azeri Turkish population, i think their is Azeri Turkish Nationalism still alive but the religious affinity of Shiaism hold them well with Iran.

Even Iranian foreign minister admits 40% of Iran is Turkish speaker.

I think It is those outcast panpersian lunatics that try to create enmity between people in Iran. Each of them live outside of Iran, as i experienced.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=KiiicAtcVDM[/video]

Salehi gives speech about the number on Iranian Turks.

Kurds, Baluchs, Gilakis, Pashtuns, Hazaras, Tajiks, Lurs, etc,... all are Iranic, but they have very notable differences as well. Just like the case of Turkic and Arabic peoples. So I think it could get a very technical discussion which I'm not capable of handling it since my profession is something else. It really needs a professor who masters these things to talk about this stuff.

Hazaras are Mongols, mate.

 

[alighor]

I'm an Iranian Azeri myself, and I don't accept state of Iran occupying Southern Azerbaijan. The only way is independence.

If you are Iranian, why are you carrying the flag of the Azerbaijan Republic in your profile? If you want to live in an independent Azerbaijani state, there is already one which you can move to.

Azerbaijan has been an integral part of Iran for thousands of years and was separated from the motherland due to Russian imperialism. Apart from a few brainwashed fools, there are no turkic groups in Iran (of which Azeris are only one - we have many others such as Turkmen, Qashqa'i, etc.) that have any interest in seceding from Iran.

The cultural proximity of Iranian Azeris with Turkish citizens of the Turkish republic should be a point of strength and bind our nations closer but there are always bigots (i.e. "Panturks") that ruin this due to their stupidity.

Yes, I do, and our friend should read them and stop claiming such BS's. If it were to Persians, they would claim that Azeri Turkish did not exist in older times or are some "foreign language" to Azeri Turks themselves.

Persians can never be friend of Azeri Turks, because you are Persians, we are Turks. Put an Azeri Turk into a same room with Persian, the Azeri Turk should only know his own mother langauge, now tell me if they would be able to communicate.

Of course not, and an Azeri Turk would neither be able to communicate with a Eskimo or Arab or Chinese. Then what the hell is that makes Persians different from an Eskimo, Arab or Chinese to Azeri Turks in this case? Nothing.

That is what makes a self-idenity of a nation. I see no point why Azeri Turks should live under same state as a Persian.

It's precisely because of these statements that I doubt that you are an Iranian Azeri (defined as an Iranian speaking Azerbaijani living in Iran). We have tens of different ethnicities in Iran and most of them are well-integrated. Iranian Azeris are part and parcel of the Iranian nation, and hold important political, religious and economic positions. I've never met a single Iranian Azeri that talked the way you do.

Where exactly in Iran do you come from?

JEskandari, that was not the point, Persian officials under the rule of Seljuks used many Turkic military and administration terms in their works written in Persian, that shows that Turkic commonly used at Seljuks.

Seljuks of Rum and other Seljuks were pretty much same.

Iran has been ruled by Persianate turks for hundreds of years. There is a strong symbiosis between Iranian and Turkic nations culturally, linguistically and even religiously. I do not know why you are attempting to "turkify" history.

Please go and study the history of all Turkic dynasties and you will find what I mean.

 

[Targon]

I have no problem with Persian influence, it was just an historical answer, but I have problems with the nationalist Persians trying to show themselves as superior.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

Iran has been ruled by Persianate turks for hundreds of years. There is a strong symbiosis between Iranian and Turkic nations culturally, linguistically and even religiously. I do not know why you are attempting to "turkify" history.

Please go and study the history of all Turkic dynasties and you will find what I mean.

Persianite turks , haha another inferior complex one , you just dont wanna say you got Ruled by Turkic Rulers.

 

[Cherokee]

Sorry for popping in . Is it true that both Turks and Mongols initiated from the same region . Altai mountains ??

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

how can i know where they came from i cant go back thousands of years but i know they are two different races .

 

[Surenas]

Persianite turks , haha another inferior complex one , you just dont wanna say you got Ruled by Turkic Rulers.

It was only ruled by Turks or Turkic-speaking Mongols or Iranians. That's it. These Turkic rulers had no interest in Turkic language, culture, or whatever - not until the emergance of the Anatolian Beyliqs and Timurid Khans. Still, even during these very early days of Turkic national identity, the society was still very Persian. As mentioned by Mir Ali Shir Nava'i, up to the 16th century, almost every Turk in Central Asia knew Persian to a native level, although only a very few Persians found it necessairy to learn Chaghatay Turkic. The influnece of Turkic culture on Persians is virtually zero, while the Persians have significantly influenced and changed the Turkic identity and way of life. Today, Turks in Central Asia and Anatolia identitify themselvs with the Persianate society that already existed way before the Turks came to Iran. But no Iranian identifies himself with the original Turkic culture or identity.