Iran arrests Azeri nationals for spying

[Arian]

Ali Qapu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grand Safavid palace in Isfahan and residence of Shah Abbas. Look at its name, Ali Qapu, I.E, Supreme Door/Gate in Azerbaijani language.

Its actually Qapı, but there is no "I" in Persian, so it's replaced by "U". Go to google translate and write Ali Qapı, you will see.

And tell me what it means in Persian? Nothing of course.

I don't know what sound you mean by "I", because we do have the sound /i/ in Persian.

About Qapu, it might be Turkish, but the Ali part is surely Arabic, and also, Qaab, in Persian, means frame, gate. So the origin of the name is unknown, but Qapu is Azeri anyway. What's the point?

I don't get what your point is, your point is that Safavids weren't Persianized or what? Nobody denies they were ethnically Turkic, so what's all this discussion about?

 

[ASQ-1918]

It's not i, but Turkic ı sound.

Yes Ali is Arabic indeed, but it's also used in Azeri language. And the palace itself was named in Azeri, that's my point.

Why would they name their palace in this way if they were completly culturally Persians? And this is at the time of Shah Abbas and Isfahan being capital.

As before Isfahan, Azerbaijan was the capital of Safavid Empire. But I agree that with Shah Abbas and capital being moved to Isfahan, Safavid Empire became culturally more Persian, but not completly.

Shah Abbas even named new units in Azeri langauge following his infamous military reforms, which continued until Qajar era.

 

[Surenas]

Why would they name their palace in this way if they were culturally Persians?

 

[ASQ-1918]

Whats so funny about that? Why not "Dar-e Ali", but "Ali Qapı"?

 

[Arian]

It's not i, but Turkic ı sound.

Yes Ali is Arabic indeed, but it's also used in Azeri language. And the palace itself was named in Azeri, that's my point.

Why would they name their palace in this way if they were culturally Persians?

Because Ali Qapu sounds nice?

Persia had two languages at that time, just like many countries that have several recognized languages today. What's wrong with it? Persian was highly respected and used in the society, that makes them Persianized. Also, some Persian festivals and traditions like Nowrooz and Yalda eve have been observed in Iran even by Turkic dynasties, that makes them Persianized. Doesn't it?

About Safavids, from wikipedia (well, it's not the best source, but still it has links to sources that could be verified independently from wikipedia):

Language(s)

Persian (official,[5] coinage,[6][7] civil administration,[8] court (since Isfahan became capital),[9] high literature,[8] literary,[6][10] theological discourse,[6] diplomatic correspondence, belles-lettres (adab), historiography,[11] court-based religious posts[12])

Azerbaijani (court, religious dignitaries, military)[11][13][14][15]

 

[ASQ-1918]

Because it sounded nice? LOL.

No, because they were not Persians.

And the best part of it is that it's in Isfahan, a Persian city. If it was in Tabriz it would not mean much perhaps.

 

[Surenas]

Because it sounded nice? LOL.

No, because they were not Persians.

And the best part of it is that it's in Isfahan, a Persian city.

They were. Culturally they were Persians. Died while fighting for Iran. I owe them for that.

 

[Targon]

There is no doubt Persian had a high influence but calling them Persian or completely Persianized is something not right and completely nationalistic, you're mistaking cultural influences and ethnicities.

 

[Arian]

Because it sounded nice? LOL.

No, because they were not Persians.

And the best part of it is that it's in Isfahan, a Persian city. If it was in Tabriz it would not mean much perhaps.

Why not? Both languages co-existed peacefully, so if something sounded nice in one of the two languages, why it shouldn't have been used?
Today there are restaurants or buildings in Tehran with English, French, Italian or even Korean names. Does it mean they are not Iranians? Ali Qapu is a nice name, it sounds beautiful and for Iranians, who value poetry and literature highly, it doesn't really matter what language the word comes from. From the viewpoint of aesthetics, Ali Qapu is a short beautiful name and easy to pronounce.

Did you read the rest of what I had copied?

There is no doubt Persian had a high influence but calling them Persian or completely Persianized is something not right and completely nationalistic, you're mistaking cultural influences and ethnicities.

They weren't completely Persianized, the claim is they were highly(not completely) Persianized.

 

[Targon]

Nobody is denying the Persian influence, I already explained that was a natural process, but seems like Surenas is a bit obsessed with those ethnical issues.

 

[Arian]

Nobody is denying the Persian influence, I already explained that was a natural process, but seems like Surenas is a bit obsessed with those ethnical issues.

Let's see the bright side of the issue for now. I'm glad that ASQ-1918 is now discussing his opinion in a respectful manner. He first started by name calling and insulting the Iranian nation, but later changed his mind and brought up a good discussion I think.

You know, we could have constructive talks if ASQ-1918 comes and talks in respect, instead of going to the Turkish defence forum and create flame threads against Iran, he could come here and says his opinion in a respectful manner and I'm sure all Iranian members would welcome it.

The truth is, the government of Azerbaijan wants to show Persians as fascists who are ruling over the Azerbaijani provinces of Iran (or their so-called South Azerbaijan) with force, because Aliyev is a guy with expansionist delusions. Iran is a multi-ethnic society, and has been so for more than a thousand year. Many people, even in the Islamic republic, like the leader (Khamenei), are Azeri. Iran isn't a Persian state now, many people don't like it though, but Iran is an Islamic state now. ASQ-1918 should start to change his opinion about what he's fed with by the republic of Azerbaijan propaganda. Persians and Azeris in Iran feel linked together, they marry each other and form new families. That's very important biologically and culturally because as long as two ethnic groups marry with each other, their genetic pool and cultural values become mixed and linked. So he shouldn't think of Iran as a fascist Persian state and he should study more about history and culture of Iran.

 

[Serpentine]

The thing is,these guys think Azeris in Iran are something separated from other Iranians,which is not true.Asq brings example of the name Ali-Qapu.so what?The name Azerbaijan itself is a Persian name,it means even your country's name uses a persian word not a Turkish one.So please don't use these kinds of examples anymore,they make people laugh.
Safavid spoke Azeri?ok again so what?Azeris were a part of Iranian society at the time,they were Iranian too,so there is no problem with it.During history different persons ruled Iran.From Kurds to Baloochs,Azeris,Persians and others.but they were all Iranians.
I really don't know which part of this single fact you don't understand.

 

[Ottoman-Turk]

how is azeris iranians you still repeating like a parrot when everything is calmed

 

[Serpentine]

how is azeris iranians you still repeating like a parrot when everything is calmed

How Azeris are Iranians?Because grasses are green.
I'm sorry mate,but that's the most silly question one can ask.They are Iranians because they live in Iran.
Or maybe you want to say Iran has occupied their land?

 

[ASQ-1918]

Arian, what kind of example is that? We are talking about 17th century. They named it that way because they were Azeri Turks.

Example of Ali Qapu name is also a cultural one besides ethnicity.