What's new

Iran and Saudi Arabia reportedly agree to resume diplomatic ties and re-open embassies within two months

From what I can see Arabic Twitter shares similar sentiments to those that I wrote about. I guess that they are not as deluded and naive as the people in this thread who put more emphasis on beautiful empty words, signed deals, agreements etc. over the actual ground realities and history.

Very naive and stupid from KSA. Beyond incomprehensible in fact.
 
.
You are talking to a well-known anti-Arab and anti-KSA user. Like his troll friend @lydian fall that is polluting this thread with off-topic nonsense troll posts.

I admire the genuine concern but you are naive in this regard. This is all that I can say to you based on history and ground realities.

As for the Bosnian War, every major Muslim country helped, Pakistan, Arabs, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan etc.

As of right now, KSA/Arabs are far more involved in the Balkans than Iran is. Similarly with Turkey but you already know that.
Well i would like to remain naive as you say and be optimistic in that regard.

Iran first and most important help on field after them Pakistan...

True that but that is consequence of iran current geopolitical position not their wishes.
 
.
It is very interesting to read Comments to this new development, which is a front page story at NY Times.



"How long will it take the US to intervene to prevent improving relations between these two countries? This development could if allowed to play out have a major role in fostering peace in the Middle East. The US and Israel will never let it happen."
 
.
Well i would like to remain naive as you say and be optimistic in that regard.

Iran first and most important help on field after them Pakistan...

True that but that is consequence of iran current geopolitical position not their wishes.

I might be proven horribly wrong, we will all have to see. Personally I don't think so.

At the end of the day, we are talking about two regimes whose policies do not reflect the will of their people on many fronts.

As for their political situation, nobody put a gun to their face and told them to become an international pariah in many ways.

The Arabs have no problem having close ties to their creation in many ways (Muslim World), West and East (China, India, Indonesia etc.) at the same time. Most recent example is the Russian-Ukraine war, ties with both parties, key in terms of prison exchanges, stabilization of oil prices, large donations to Ukraine, close military ties with Ukraine and growing with Russia etc. Even signs of some kind of relationship emerging with arch rivals like Israel.

This is smart policy, not harmful/unwanted opportunistic and nefarious meddling in a few war-torn Arab countries.

It is very interesting to read Comments to this new development, which is a front page story at NY Times.



"How long will it take the US to intervene to prevent improving relations between these two countries? This development could if allowed to play out have a major role in fostering peace in the Middle East. The US and Israel will never let it happen."

Analysts are completely overblowing this news. People think that you can learn an old horse (Iranian Mullah's) new fundamentally different skills contrary to their very being and DNA. The world does not work like that.

It amounts to USA and China signing a deal tomorrow, yet in reality they will remain the two foremost competitors on all fronts. NO amount of sugarcoating can change this.
 
.
Anyway my dislike of the Iranian Mullah's (their policies, don't know those in power personally obviously - neither does anyone here - I can only judge people by their actions) aside and my skepticism of the outcome/results of this deal, it has to be said that this is quite monumental news (potentially) geopolitically and I am not surprised by it as such, as explained in this thread below a few days ago, where I talked about the seemingly strange "peace settlements" across the entire region by large and mentioned KSA-Iran ties as well.


What interests me is whether or not all those current developments are about a much bigger topic which most likely involves China, USA, Russia and others.

Whatever it is, whether it is the aftermath of Covid-19, economic recession (albeit KSA in question has almost been immune to it this time around), upcoming world wars or whatever, it cannot be a coincidence.

I just don't really see what this will entail in terms of concrete changes.

Let me put it this way, I see no reason why Arabs and Iranian cannot have cordial neighborly ties, people to people we see that all the time in the region itself (GCC, within Iran, West, East, South East Asia etc.), that is not the topic of discussion, neither is business (business is business) but trust is the most important thing in international politics as is history (recent in particular).

I think for a comprehensible and genuine long-term KSA/Arab-Iran peace, other regimes in power should have signed such deals in an alternative universe with clean sheets (both of them).

More importantly what is the long-term goals of such deals, what do they want to achieve in common, what are their visions, people to people relations, business, security policy, oil/gas policy etc.

Many questions, very few answers.
 
.
I might be proven horribly wrong, we will all have to see. Personally I don't think so.

At the end of the day, we are talking about two regimes whose policies do not reflect the will of their people on many fronts.

As for their political situation, nobody put a gun to their face and told them to become an international pariah in many ways.

The Arabs have no problem having close ties to their creation in many ways (Muslim World), West and East (China, India, Indonesia etc.) at the same time. Most recent example is the Russian-Ukraine war, ties with both parties, key in terms of prison exchanges, stabilization of oil prices, large donations to Ukraine, close military ties with Ukraine and growing with Russia etc. Even signs of some kind of relationship emerging with arch rivals like Israel.

This is smart policy, not harmful/unwanted opportunistic and nefarious meddling in a few war-torn Arab countries.



Analysts are completely overblowing this news. People think that you can learn an old horse (Iranian Mullah's) new fundamentally different skills contrary to their very being and DNA. The world does not work like that.

It amounts to USA and China signing a deal tomorrow, yet in reality they will remain the two foremost competitors on all fronts. NO amount of sugarcoating can change this.
Lets be frank to the end, main obstacle way i see it is position towards israel palestinian war, if that would be possible to align all other matters would be technical ones.
That is pivotal point of iranian policy and they suffered and sacrificied a lot to maintain it. Arabs should be more honest about it and even if they do not want to lead the effort at least they should not disturb others who wants.
So, i repeat if that would be solved behind curtains lot of other things would fit in amd region could move forward in more clear and productive directions then it was used to be.
 
.
Another comment. And this was stated by Mearsheimer and Walt in 2006 in an article 'The Israel Lobby' paper that the Israeli Lobby in America is working counter to America's interests. Their argument was the Lobby is so powerful in Washington that politicians have to frame policies against America's own interests! That paper is still valid.


"This again points to America's failure in the Middle East. By appeasing Israel's hard line policies, America has lost its position as an honest broker in the region. American efforts to paint China as an enemy are going to be seen as hollow. China is not a security threat to America but it certainly is a rival economic power. Instead of trying to demonize China and throttling its growth, America should find ways to exist peacefully. This is not a zero sum game. Both countries can coexist in peace."
 
.
Lets be frank to the end, main obstacle way i see it is position towards israel palestinian war, if that would be possible to align all other matters would be technical ones.
That is pivotal point of iranian policy and they suffered and sacrificied a lot to maintain it. Arabs should be more honest about it and even if they do not want to lead the effort at least they should not disturb others who wants.
So, i repeat if that would be solved behind curtains lot of other things would fit in amd region could move forward in more clear and productive directions then it was used to be.

Mate, no offense, but you have been swallowing the Iranian propaganda machine for the past 43 years it seems. The idea of Israel being the main goal, the same country and entity that Iran has yet to fire a single shot at for the past 43 years, is laughable and even offensive for the Arab victims of Iran's policy in the region. That would amount to saying that Saddam's war against Iran was some kind of hidden agenda to weaken Israel (Iran was formerly Israel's strongest ally in the region under the Shah).

I am going to be brutal with you here, both Arabs and Iranians are imperial people with an imperial past. They both consider themselves as the dominant force in the region (by almost every objective metric and numbers Arabs are that in the real world but old habits die hard).

Since 1979, the Iranian Mullah's replaced Iranian state ideology (secular Iranian nationalism which naturally was inward looking) was replaced with pan-Islamic slogans and capitalizing on the Palestinian/Arab-Israeli conflict. It coincided with the political climate where Arab nationalism/socialism was being replaced with pan-Islamism - something the Afghan-Soviet war propelled in particular.


This ideology seeks to create loyal Iranian satellite states in the Arab world where Shia communities in particular live as obviously Sunni Arabs don't look at Iran as a political/religious leader. Since Shias in the Arab world (worldwide too) are a small minority and were often marginalized, they looked at/look at Iran, as some kind of savior out there to protect them.

At the end of the day it is all about influence, money, political influence etc. We can sugarcoat it by using Shia Islam, Sunni Islam, Russian sphere, "Western democracy" or whatever but at the end of the day it is the same thing, a fight for influence.

Anyway why should Arabs be "honest" about anything in this regard. I am not sure what you are referring.

Let us find out once and for all whether the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about religion or nationalism? If it is the first thing, which I assume that you agree with, why should Arabs as a collective, be grateful for something that is supposedly the obligation of every Muslim?

Did the same Arabs, more than anyone else, not help Muslim causes in the entire world (for good and bad like every kind of external help in hindsight) more than anyone else objectively speaking? I don't think that anyone can object to that by hard numbers.

If you deem it to be a nationalist conflict about land between two related peoples, why the outside meddling?

And let us be honest here, Arabs and Iranians are totally irrelevant when it comes to Israel's political actions as long as Israel is under the protection of the USA and collective West. Even China, the broker of this deal in question, have cordial ties with Israel as do all powers.

Arabs and Iranians are mere spectators in this regard (Israel) whether we like to admit it or not. Similarly for the entire Muslim world.

Similar to other regions of the world where Muslims are struggling, I won't mention regions here or anything, people know them already.
 
Last edited:
. .
Mate, no offense, but you have been swallowing the Iranian propaganda machine for the past 43 years it seems. The idea of Israel being the main goal, the same country and entity that Iran has yet to fire a single shot at for the past 43 years, is laughable and even offensive for the Arab victims of Iran's policy in the region. That would amount to saying that Saddam's war against Iran was some kind of hidden agenda to weaken Israel (Iran was formerly Israel's strongest ally in the region under the Shah).

I am going to be brutal with you here, both Arabs and Iranians are imperial people with an imperial past. They both consider themselves as the dominant force in the region (by almost every objective metric and numbersArabs are that in the real world but old habits die hard). Since 1979, the Iranian Mullah's replaced Iranian state ideology (secular Iranian nationalism which naturally was inward looking) was replaced with pan-Islamic slogans and capitalizing on the Palestinian/Arab-Israeli conflict. It coincided with the political climate where Arab nationalism/socialism was being replaced with pan-Islamism - something the Afghan-Soviet war propelled in particular.

This ideology seeks to create loyal Iranian satellite states in the Arab world where Shia communities in particular live.

At the end of the day it is all about influence, money, political influence etc. We can sugarcoat it by using Shia Islam, Sunni Islam, Russian sphere, "Western democracy" or whatever but at the end of the day it is the same thing, a fight for influence.

Anyway why should Arabs be "honest" about anything in this regard. I am not sure what you are referring.

Let us find out once and for all whether the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is about religion or nationalism? If it is the first thing, which I assume that you agree with, why should Arabs as a collective, be grateful for something that is supposedly the obligation of every Muslim? If you deem it to be a nationalist conflict about land between two related peoples, why the outside meddling?

And let us be honest here, Arabs and Iranians are totally irrelevant when it comes to Israel's political actions as long as Israel is under the protection of the USA and collective West. Even China, the broker of this deal in question, have cordial ties with Israel as do all powers.

Arabs and Iranians are mere spectators in this regard (Israel) whether we like to admit it or not. Similarly for the entire Muslim world.

Similar to other regions of the world where Muslims are struggling, I won't mention regions here or anything, people know them already.
Not a problem for any of your remarks but you opened whole new can of warms for which i do not have time and patience to respond on each of them.
I just gave my opinion which could be wrong and totaly irrelevant for future.
 
. .
Not a problem for any of your remarks but you opened whole new can of warms for which i have do not have time and patience to respond on each of them.
I just gave my opinion which could be wrong and totaly irrelevant for future.

Of course, we are just anonymous users sharing our viewpoints, nothing else or more. We are irrelevant as well and without any direct influence in terms of the topics at hand. Just mere spectators.

Age has caught up to him. More signs of him being senile. I guess it is in the similar line of making "KSA a pariah" before he was elected later to be embarrassed for all to see.

Looks like he is answering a different question. He can't yet digest this news, brokered by China without American involvement!

It is all about securing China's continuous flow of oil and gas (in particular in case of a conflict in Taiwan) and for that the Chinese need the region to be stable = no conflict between Arabs and Iran.

Israel, as you might know, has close ties to China and vice versa. There is no problem between them. So don't expect China to have a different tune than what even the US say publicly (of course they do nothing to implement it), namely the need for a two-state solution.

US influence/engagement in the region has been declining since the Iraq war (they left in 2011), only Daesh reignited their interest and that too for a short while (overall). They are fully focused on Russia and China nowadays.

This reality, I would claim, forces the local players to try to amend ties or at least "divide the region into spheres of interest" which I am sure that KSA and Iran have been talking about before singing this deal.

Talks in Oman, Iraq etc. were being reported for years in the media so this was a long way in development.
 
.
The idea of Israel being the main goal, the same country and entity that Iran has yet to fire a single shot at for the past 43 years, is laughable and even offensive for the Arab victims of Iran's policy in the region.

Non-sense. Iran-backed Hezbollah drove Israel out of south Lebanon and then gave a bloody nose in 2006. South Lebanon is fertile land and Israelis are always looking for such land--look at their pattern of land grab in Palestine??

Also, currently, Iran and its proxies have hundreds, if not thousands of missiles and rockets, placed very closed to Israel, which, by the way, is a very small and narrow country, to destroy Israel in case of a major war. You must have noticed Iranian military hardware in the Ukraine war and how effective (while cheap!) they are. Israelis are well aware of that!!

I have no love for either Iran or Saudi Arabia and my posts in this forum would never reflect any tilt for or against any of them. But I don't dislike them over some 'democracy' blah blah. It is their internal matter!!

BTW, no harm in you expressing your views. We are ALL speculating here anyway. What do I know about geopolitics beyond what I can summarize from online sources and draw my own conclusions? There is a big game out there with multibillion, if not trillions of $$ at stake. The art of coming to the correct conclusions lie in carefully studying history and also looking the evolving geopolitics and geoeconomics and even then be always ready to question your conclusions; getting stuck in historic events is a fatal flaw! In the end, we are all human beings who make policies and some insights into human psychology would help a lot.
 
. .
Non-sense. Iran-backed Hezbollah drove Israel out of south Lebanon and then gave a bloody nose in 2006. South Lebanon is fertile land and Israelis are always looking for such land--look at their pattern of land grab in Palestine??

Also, currently, Iran and its proxies have hundreds, if not thousands of missiles and rockets, placed very closed to Israel, which, by the way, is a very small and narrow country, to destroy Israel in case of a major war. You must have noticed Iranian military hardware in the Ukraine war and how effective (while cheap!) they are. Israelis are well aware of that!!

I have no love for either Iran or Saudi Arabia and my posts in this forum would never reflect any tilt for or against any of them. But I don't dislike them over some 'democracy' blah blah. It is their internal matter!!

BTW, no harm in you expressing your views. We are ALL speculating here anyway. What do I know about geopolitics beyond what I can summarize from online sources and draw my own conclusions? There is a big game out there with multibillion, if not trillions of $$ at stake. The art of coming to the correct conclusions lie in carefully studying history and also looking the evolving geopolitics and geoeconomics and even then be always ready to question your conclusions; getting stuck in historic events is a fatal flaw! In the end, we are all human beings who make policies and some insights into human psychology would help a lot.

Hezbollah is not Iran. Those are Lebanese Shia Arabs who were at conflict with Israel decades before the Mullah's gained power in Iran.

It is disingenuous to equal military support with actual fighting taking place being the work of Iran.

Pakistan was not fighting on the ground when Taliban was being aided in the 1990's or during the US invasion. Those were Afghans themselves. Obviously with external support.

Without an Iran (Mullah's in power) Israel and neighboring Arabs were fighting wars.

The Iranian state as such, led by the Mullah's, has yet to fire a single missile or shot at Israel directly. This is a undeniable fact.

I look at Iran's role as I described it in post 98. From my viewpoint they are using Shia Islam as a cover to gain influence in the region by creating proxies loyal to them and who are aligned with their policies in regards to Israel and other regional adversaries.

I think we saw that play out in Yemen better than anywhere else. Iran has practically no reason (strategic nor otherwise) to be involved in Yemen, other than trying to weaken KSA (one of their regional adversaries).

The Houthis are not even religiously tied to the Mullah's as they happen to be Zaydis which are overall (in their beliefs) closer to mainstream Sunni Islam than Twelve Shia Islam (the Iranian state religion or at least prevalent religion nowadays)..

I think that you will struggle to find and objective person disagreeing with what I wrote above.

Israel is just the easiest scapegoat to hide under, Arabs (nationalists and pan-islamists) did the same thing before and continue to do it.

I mean, you are not going to get Arab support if you are propagandizing Iranian nationalism, are you? Of course not.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom