INS Vikrant truly a pan Indian effort

[rafiqali]

I agree with you to a certain point. AC is a power projection weapon, not a strategic weapon. The subs will be the last remaining ships "sailing" when all the surface fleets are wiped out. This is because the noisiest sub is more quiet than the most quiet surface ship. If you can hear them first before they can hear you, the battle is over.

However, battle carrier group is still useful when fighting a none strategic war. Basically, a none nuclear war. So there is still value in AC groups as not all wars are world ending wars.

My query was specifically about the Indian ACCs.

Once we accept that they are for air power projection, then the question is against whom? Pakistan is covered by our land forces. As for the Chinese, the fleets will have to enter Pacific even for projecting what rudimentary power they have. Can you do that with 3 ACCs of which only one will be operational at any time? And will that pacific entry against China be anything more than a heroic, but futile and fatal gesture.

The only use I can think of is for blocking the Straits of Malacca during hostilities with China. Obviously India cannot do it effectively by itself, and I suspect that it will use its ships to cooperate with US fleet. Which means that it is actually the US which is instigating and helping India towards true blue water capability which is more in America's than India's interests.

No harm in getting Blue Water capability if you can afford it. But India has far more pressing priorities for defense funds.

 

[faithfulguy]

countries having acc's are also nuclear weapons power so who the f--k will mess so u can expect acc's to stay for a long time and countries are not fools to invest on them if they have lived their use.

Totally agree with you. But as long as its known that ACC is not use to protect the fleet destroyers or cruisers. But the other way around. destroyers and cruiser contain the air defense system to protect the ACC.

The air craft on the carrier is purely for force projection. They certainly can be use for attack another country's ACC. But most likely, a sub would be asked to obliterate the surface fleet.

 

[janon]

My query was specifically about the Indian ACCs.

Once we accept that they are for air power projection, then the question is against whom? Pakistan is covered by our land forces. As for the Chinese, the fleets will have to enter Pacific even for projecting what rudimentary power they have. Can you do that with 3 ACCs of which only one will be operational at any time? And will that pacific entry against China be anything more than a heroic, but futile and fatal gesture.

The only use I can think of is for blocking the Straits of Malacca during hostilities with China. Obviously India cannot do it effectively by itself, and I suspect that it will use its ships to cooperate with US fleet. Which means that it is actually the US which is instigating and helping India towards true blue water capability which is more in America's than India's interests.

No harm in getting Blue Water capability if you can afford it. But India has far more pressing priorities for defense funds.

You have been repeatedly told that that is not what IN uses ACCs for. It is mostly for fleet defence. Which is why IN has used medium sized carriers, and not supercarriers. Are you deliberately ignoring this to suit your conclusions?

"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

 

[faithfulguy]

My query was specifically about the Indian ACCs.

Once we accept that they are for air power projection, then the question is against whom? Pakistan is covered by our land forces. As for the Chinese, the fleets will have to enter Pacific even for projecting what rudimentary power they have. Can you do that with 3 ACCs of which only one will be operational at any time? And will that pacific entry against China be anything more than a heroic, but futile and fatal gesture.

The only use I can think of is for blocking the Straits of Malacca during hostilities with China. Obviously India cannot do it effectively by itself, and I suspect that it will use its ships to cooperate with US fleet. Which means that it is actually the US which is instigating and helping India towards true blue water capability which is more in America's than India's interests.

No harm in getting Blue Water capability if you can afford it. But India has far more pressing priorities for defense funds.

I agree with you. Carriers are a luxury for projecting power. And as of now, India has no need to project power against China's eastern cities as they covered by USN. But what are the more pressing priorities for defense in your mind.

 

[rafiqali]

Mr self proclaimed genius with a economy more than 4 trillion dollar by 2020 India needs 4 carrier battle groups with the 4th one being nuclear to protect its sea lanes and economic tranquility. our interests tomorrow will stretch to the cape of good hope to the eastern pacific further more the partnership with US is for this reason.

Why only Cape of Good Hope? I m sure we also have economic interests in Brazil and the North Sea. So lets get 27 ACCs.

After all, India, in due course, has to replace the US as protector of free commerce and sea lanes.

I m sure that countries with far bigger trade than India, but with no ACCs, are having their ships held up by hostile navies everyday.

 

[faithfulguy]

You have been repeatedly told that that is not what IN uses ACCs for. It is mostly for fleet defence. Which is why IN has used medium sized carriers, and not supercarriers. Are you deliberately ignoring this to suit your conclusions?

"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

fleet defense against what? Pakistan, Bangladesh, China? I'm also confused as well.

 

[rafiqali]

You have been repeatedly told that that is not what IN uses ACCs for. It is mostly for fleet defence. Which is why IN has used medium sized carriers, and not supercarriers. Are you deliberately ignoring this to suit your conclusions?

"There's none so blind as those who will not see."

That is precisely how IN uses ACCs, your fantastic hypotheses notwithstanding.

I agree with you. Carriers are a luxury for projecting power. And as of now, India has no need to project power against China's eastern cities as they covered by USN. But what are the more pressing priorities for defense in your mind.

Sub for example. India's sub fleet is in precarious shape.

Defence R&D is shamelessly starved of funds.

 

[faithfulguy]

Why only Cape of Good Hope? I m sure we also have economic interests in Brazil and the North Sea. So lets get 27 ACCs.

After all, India, in due course, has to replace the US as protector of free commerce and sea lanes.

I m sure that countries with far bigger trade than India, but with no ACCs, are having their ships held up by hostile navies everyday.

I agree with you. I'm still waiting from the others on how India would use its carriers. And if its for fleet defense, how would the AC use for fleet defense? I can't wait for the answers.

 

[IndoUS]

fleet defense against what? Pakistan, Bangladesh, China? I'm also confused as well.

Against other enemy ships. The ships possessed by Pakistan, Bangladesh have limited strike capability which is 100-200km at best with that in mind. An aircraft has far greater range (1000-2000Km) and can neutralize a threat quicker rather than the Indian navy destroyer getting into the range of Pakistani Ships.

 

[janon]

That is precisely how IN uses ACCs, your fantastic hypotheses notwithstanding.

OK, since you say so, I'm sure it's true. Enjoy your flirtations with the other 50 centers. Buh-bye.

 

[faithfulguy]

That is precisely how IN uses ACCs, your fantastic hypotheses notwithstanding.



Sub for example. India's sub fleet is in precarious shape.

Defence R&D is shamelessly starved of funds.

The enemies of India are lucky that you are not in charge of Indian navy.

Against other enemy ships. The ships possessed by Pakistan, Bangladesh have limited strike capability which is 100-200km at best with that in mind. An aircraft has far greater range (1000-2000Km) and can neutralize a threat quicker rather than the Indian navy destroyer getting into the range of Pakistani Ships.

If its against Pakistan and Bangladesh ships, then use your land based air craft. Sub would be my favorite for this role, though. But definitely, absolutely, no need for AC for this role. next...

 

[rafiqali]

OK, since you say so, I'm sure it's true. Enjoy your flirtations with the other 50 centers. Buh-bye.

As an Indian I take wisdom from where ever it comes. Enemies are often better teachers than yes men friends.

 

[posedion]

Totally agree with you. But as long as its known that ACC is not use to protect the fleet destroyers or cruisers. But the other way around. destroyers and cruiser contain the air defense system to protect the ACC.

The air craft on the carrier is purely for force projection. They certainly can be use for attack another country's ACC. But most likely, a sub would be asked to obliterate the surface fleet.

Dear either way the statement is true the big whale protects the smaller fishes and the smaller ones protect the mother each with a different role, with fast changing geo political environment for larger economies with huge maritime interests acc's are becoming like must haves.

 

[faithfulguy]

As an Indian I take wisdom from where ever it comes. Enemies are often better teachers than yes men friends.

After dealing with your countrymen, now you know why so many none Indians get into heated discussion with Indians.

 

[IndoUS]

The enemies of India are lucky that you are not in charge of Indian navy.



If its against Pakistan and Bangladesh ships, then use your land based air craft. Sub would be my favorite for this role, though. But definitely, absolutely, no need for AC for this role. next...

Land based aircrafts will be diverted towards the enemy's air force. Pakistan has a strong air defense against its eastern side, and by diverting land based ac for naval role, it will greatly affect the army's offensive. India will do what it did during the war with Pakistan during the liberation of Bangladesh, and that is blocking the trade to the country and using the naval air wing to bomb the harbors.

Subs can be taken out just like an acc, and they can be tracked by ASW helicopter. Every ships have their specific roles. It is more viable to use an aircraft rather than sending a sub and loosing it in the process.