INS Vikramaditya commissioned

[indopak]

Cont.....

 

[Bhasad Singh Mundi]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Abingdonboy]

 

[Reviewer21]

The country where this website is based....

US?

 

[Jai_Hind]

US?

Is defence.pk based in US...

 

[Reviewer21]

Is defence.pk based in US...

Well technically saying yes, the website is stored in servers and those are based in US.

 

[Jai_Hind]

Well technically saying yes, the website is stored in servers and those are based in US.

So after all those pakistanis cursing US in this forum... they are actually earning from it

 

[godofwar]

I read a report today stating that since India insisted on overhaul of all major and semi major sub systems on Vikramaditya that IN has essentially gotten a brand new carrier at second hand price capable of serving upto 40 years and is not scheduled for any maintenance for next ten years ?

It also said Indian govt. arm twisted Russians into doing so much work for very little money because of media furore created by media when the cost escalations and delivery delays became a major issue circa 2002-07 iirc.

Any truth in this report ?

@sancho @Capt.Popeye

 

[sancho]

I read a report today stating that since India insisted on overhaul of all major and semi major sub systems on Vikramaditya that IN has essentially gotten a brand new carrier at second hand price capable of serving upto 40 years and is not scheduled for any maintenance for next ten years ?

It also said Indian govt. arm twisted Russians into doing so much work for very little money because of media furore created by media when the cost escalations and delivery delays became a major issue circa 2002-07 iirc.

Any truth in this report ?

Not even close! We definitely didn't got a new carrier and even less at 2nd hand price! From the procurement point of view it is nothing but a disaster, years of delays, high cost overruns, many technical problems, basicially limited to Russian aircrafts and if reports are true that we have to do maintenance in Russia, it get even worse in future.
They had offered us an alternative to bridge the gap till our first indigenous carrier would be available, the problem is, that we were far too naiv to believe all the timeframes and figures they gave us and that our technical teams that evaluated the base carrier and possible changes clearly lacked the necessary competence either.

However, compared to Viraat with Sea Harriers, this baby makes a big operational difference and that's why IN is so happy about it, but lets see what happens when it faces technical problems and how often it will be in the dock. The fact that we keept Viraat so long although it's very clear that it's far beyond it's life and technical capability, only to give IN the satisfaction to have an aircraft carrier, shows the irrationality and explains this procurement too.

When you then add the fact that we could had bought the carrier from the Ukraine too, if we had played it as smart as the Chinese did, could had refurbished it in Russia but mostlikely in a faster way and would had naval MKIs now in service, it gets really sad.

 

[godofwar]

Not even close! We definitely didn't got a new carrier and even less at 2nd hand price! From the procurement point of view it is nothing but a disaster, years of delays, high cost overruns, many technical problems, basicially limited to Russian aircrafts and if reports are true that we have to do maintenance in Russia, it get even worse in future.
They had offered us an alternative to bridge the gap till our first indigenous carrier would be available, the problem is, that we were far too naiv to believe all the timeframes and figures they gave us and that our technical teams that evaluated the base carrier and possible changes clearly lacked the necessary competence either.

However, compared to Viraat with Sea Harriers, this baby makes a big operational difference and that's why IN is so happy about it, but lets see what happens when it faces technical problems and how often it will be in the dock. The fact that we keept Viraat so long although it's very clear that it's far beyond it's life and technical capability, only to give IN the satisfaction to have an aircraft carrier, shows the irrationality and explains this procurement too.

When you then add the fact that we could had bought the carrier from the Ukraine too, if we had played it as smart as the Chinese did, could had refurbished it in Russia but mostlikely in a faster way and would had naval MKIs now in service, it gets really sad.

But getting an 44,000 tonne aircraft carrier with service life of 40 years at 2.3 Billion is surely not a bad deal ?

 

[sancho]

Very interesting new pics! We can see some changes at the carrier and finally get a better idea about the number of aircrafts that can be used.

Earlier in Russia...

...and now with some changes.

Now we know why they tested reversed parking in the last set of trials before delivering the carrier, since it seems to open more space for fighers. Initial models and grafics showed forward parking of 4 x fighters only.

As I expected earlier, the spots behind the island will be blocked by tugs and most likely 2 x helicopters...

...which leaves space for 6 x fighters and it seems to be possible to use the lift, even with the Mig noses reaching over at TP 7 and 8.

Also interesting the hangar pic:

I can see (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) 5 x rows of aircrafts, with 3 of them behind the lift like this:

Earlier graphics however estimated 4 x rows behind the lift.


So from what we have seen now, we can say:
- 11 to 12 x Migs + 1 or 2 x helicopters on the deck
- 11 to 13 x Migs + 5 o 6 x helicopters in the hangar

=> 22 to 25 x Migs + 6 to 8 x helicopters in total

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I read a report today stating that since India insisted on overhaul of all major and semi major sub systems on Vikramaditya that IN has essentially gotten a brand new carrier at second hand price capable of serving upto 40 years and is not scheduled for any maintenance for next ten years ?

It also said Indian govt. arm twisted Russians into doing so much work for very little money because of media furore created by media when the cost escalations and delivery delays became a major issue circa 2002-07 iirc.

Any truth in this report ?

@sancho @Capt.Popeye

The facts are not quite like that. There is some truth in that pov that most of the Ship's critical eqpt is new hence it is not the usual "pre-owned" or second hand Naval Ship. Certainly not comparable to say how the INS Jalashwa is.
But that is where it ends. But to think that she is (or will be) maintenance-free for a decade is simply a fallacy.

The second statement is incorrect. Both the scope and feasibility of the re-construction required were mis-estimated by the IN asessment team as well as the Sevmash team. On the Russian side, they even mis-estimated their own technical capabilities, more so in the post Soviet Union dissolution. Please remember that the Ship was built some-where else and then many years later got re-constructed some where else.
The added complication was the fire that damaged her and led eventually to her being moth-balled. The effects of that was in some ways the hardest to specifically assess.

I've had considerable exposure to Ship re-build/re-construction projects where both the costs and benefits being sought were easier to quantify, and the decision to carry out or junk the project was much easier to arrive at; largely on the basis of being able to benchmark the project vis-a-vis a similar "new-build" project where the alternative options were available.
Here the additional complication was the unavailability of any alternative "new-build" project of similar capability. Hence the some-what tortuous process had to be gone through to a conclusion; regardless of the flak that the cost and time over-runs attracted.
Similarly, there was a reason why the Chinese also undertook the Varyag/Liaoning project; primarily since there was no alternative to do so. But because of the Chinese way of doing things, it has not attracted any adverse attention.