Indonesia Defence Forum

[Chestnut]

Beside embargo and rahasia negara is there anything else, technical reason perhaps?
Hope we get the best option for the weapons

Neither of those two is even much of a factor. The government knows any country can embargo them, US, Russia, EU, etc. And Rahasia Negara is a smokescreen.

The biggest reason is just kickbacks and corruption. They don't like how the US is very transparent when it comes to FMS sales and FMF programs.

 

[Ruhnama]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1273152140001906689

IND -INDO indo also means india. Can we have more close relationship do deter RRC?

And then why not we just buy US product like the real iver + trs 4d it might be cheaper and get more arm quantity

American sentiment. Embatgo etc. Maybe some people take example like this turk blocked from f35, but they still has good work with italian MBDA. Cmiiw imho. Also navy use european made exocet, cows oerlikon, panther chopper. For commonality maybe? Maybe dimension for ship? As i know sylver wide more shorter than mk41

(Actually of mk41 development can take mbda missile it is good, dont know are tgis can plug and play, ship with mk41 but carry mbda missile)

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Tpi bener ga sih f16 pernah dikorupsi? Ko nemu di kolom komen byk bilang gtu

 

[Crunch]

Who is Alm*n H*lvas, why is he knowing so many thing's?

 

[Rayadipa]

Neither of those two is even much of a factor. The government knows any country can embargo them, US, Russia, EU, etc. And Rahasia Negara is a smokescreen.

The biggest reason is just kickbacks and corruption. They don't like how the US is very transparent when it comes to FMS sales and FMF programs.

Seems like TNI, MoD or whoever in charge of buying of alutsista need to get a purge sometime.

And does Prabowo don't do anything to fix this problem ?

 

[Raduga]

Who is Alm*n H*lvas, why is he knowing so many thing's?

he literally describe who he was , in his twitter bio .

Seems like TNI, MoD or whoever in charge of buying of alutsista need to get a purge sometime.

And does Prabowo don't do anything to fix this problem ?

he tried , but it's pretty much already become a culture/tradition , it's not as simple as you think to fix such matter , read this , he's already on progress to minimalize procurement via broker as small as possible to make way for more FMS/ G2G contract.
https://www.law-justice.co/artikel/...-dan-bancakan-untuk-beli-kapal-fregat-tni-al/

prabowo is just a couple month on duty ,you can't force him to show result while he was just starting at this point , there's a joke in formil saying , there was an era where we felt like "Ga Punya Menhan" , that's the "Era" where the KF-X late payment incident happened which resulted in chain reaction of delayed payment until now , and also the incident where we forget to pay for Airbus Military Satellite .

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

IND -INDO indo also means india. Can we have more close relationship do deter RRC?

I definitely foresee it, even though the ties are more people2people/political/civilizational now, it will broaden to defence.
In 2018 IAF was in Kupang before participating in Ex. Pitch Black, maybe we see more bilateral aerial ex/army ex(Naval ties are really positive and more importantly frequent)

 

[Chestnut]

As a side note, if we want to see a better armed Iver, a good start would be to slash the Army budget and give it to the Air Force and the Navy.

 

[Alex898]

he literally describe who he was , in his twitter bio .


he tried , but it's pretty much already become a culture/tradition , it's not as simple as you think to fix such matter , read this , he's already on progress to minimalize procurement via broker as small as possible to make way for more FMS/ G2G contract.
https://www.law-justice.co/artikel/...-dan-bancakan-untuk-beli-kapal-fregat-tni-al/

prabowo is just a couple month on duty ,you can't force him to show result while he was just starting at this point , there's a joke in formil saying , there was an era where we felt like "Ga Punya Menhan" , that's the "Era" where the KF-X late payment incident happened which resulted in chain reaction of delayed payment until now , and also the incident where we forget to pay for Airbus Military Satellite .

Thanks for the article, i just read it and came to the part when it said "Luhut lebih memilih tetap mematuhi kontrak dengan Belanda tapi dengan permintaan agar broker yang menjadi mitra Damen Schelde dalam pembelian Fregat itu diganti dengan orang yang dia rekomendasikan".
Im aware about what everybody thinks about Mr. Prime Minister, but thats some serious accusation there. and now the fact that Mr. PM is agreeing to go with the Danish Frigate, does this means that PT. SKP is the broker referred by - "orang yg dia rekomendasikan" ?

 

[striver44]

Never gonna happen as long as our petinggi dan pejabat are filled with ex army career soldiers.

 

[Raduga]

Thanks for the article, i just read it and came to the part when it said "Luhut lebih memilih tetap mematuhi kontrak dengan Belanda tapi dengan permintaan agar broker yang menjadi mitra Damen Schelde dalam pembelian Fregat itu diganti dengan orang yang dia rekomendasikan".
Im aware about what everybody thinks about Mr. Prime Minister, but thats some serious accusation there. and now the fact that Mr. PM is agreeing to go with the Danish Frigate, does this means that PT. SKP is the broker referred by - "orang yg dia rekomendasikan" ?

SKP is broker for OMT(odense maritime technology) , i dont know about the Damen .

but take this with a grain of salt , there's a very high possibility that the 2nd batch PKR10514 is going to be the last batch we would sought , after that ? we dont know , maybe continuing with iver ? because alman itself told me that OMT deal are miles ahead more worthy than the damen offer with their 10514 solution at the slightly same price , at this rate , i would only hope OMT solution could actually comes earlier in 2012.

try searching 2 keywords on google with "Damen Bribery" , you got alot of news damen got caught on such scandal with naval forces contract all over the world , things about "Orang yang dia rekomendasikan" like you said , as long as the solution they provide is actually worth the price like what happened with iver now , it's a go .

 

[Rayadipa]

he literally describe who he was , in his twitter bio .


he tried , but it's pretty much already become a culture/tradition , it's not as simple as you think to fix such matter , read this , he's already on progress to minimalize procurement via broker as small as possible to make way for more FMS/ G2G contract.
https://www.law-justice.co/artikel/...-dan-bancakan-untuk-beli-kapal-fregat-tni-al/

prabowo is just a couple month on duty ,you can't force him to show result while he was just starting at this point , there's a joke in formil saying , there was an era where we felt like "Ga Punya Menhan" , that's the "Era" where the KF-X late payment incident happened which resulted in chain reaction of delayed payment until now , and also the incident where we forget to pay for Airbus Military Satellite .

No, i know very well that this kickback already a thing for like what 30-40 years?
Sure you can't just fix that easily, but thanks for that article atleast i know that prabowo does do something.
I have high expectation for him, if he still want to run in 2024, making a big impact in his time as MoD probably will give him an easy way to the palace.
and for RR yeah.. his time as MoD is truly a dark time lol.

 

[Alex898]

hings about "Orang yang dia rekomendasikan" like you said , as long as the solution they provide is actually worth the price like what happened with iver now , it's a go .

I agree, if a broker offers solution like this Iver project, then its good

 

[NEKONEKO]

SKP is broker for OMT(odense maritime technology) , i dont know about the Damen .

but take this with a grain of salt , there's a very high possibility that the 2nd batch PKR10514 is going to be the last batch we would sought , after that ? we dont know , maybe continuing with iver ? because alman itself told me that OMT deal are miles ahead more worthy than the damen offer with their 10514 solution at the slightly same price , at this rate , i would only hope OMT solution could actually comes earlier in 2012.

try searching 2 keywords on google with "Damen Bribery" , you got alot of news damen got caught on such scandal with naval forces contract all over the world , things about "Orang yang dia rekomendasikan" like you said , as long as the solution they provide is actually worth the price like what happened with iver now , it's a go .

Could be the last warship we will ever buy from them again, unless they have a really good offer for us.

 

[Fl0gger]

sebenernya pabrikan malah lebih seneng kl beli langsung ke mereka tanpa broker lho...para broker ini lah yang jadi alat utk korup pengadaan dan terkadang mereka seolah" berkuasa dan tau segalanya hanya karena dekat dengan sumber padahal mereka tidak lebih sekedar alat saja lucu kan teriak " hapus korupsi tapi alat korupsinya di biar kan saja dan terkadang yang teriak paling kenceng malah alat itu sendiri. now lest pick a side witch model of purchasing you prefer more..?
1. gpp biar proses lama dan sedikit berbelit asal transparan
2.cepat mudah namun pakai alat utk mark up pilih mana..???
atau pilih
3.ttp pakai alat tapi "rasional" marginnya.?
kl pilih yang terakhir ya just sit and watch the cat fight for a pindang .hehehehe no compalin...just watch ga perlu melo rame" toh hehehe regard

 

[Gundala]

You know sometimes "Orang yg direkomendasikan" can be good or bad thing. I dont want to talk about the bad thing cause we already know. What can be a good thing? If I am in a leadership position and want to have "eyes" directly on the project I would put "orang/perusahaan" yg direkomendasikan. Imagine if I put career officer as controller, we all know what can happen to his/her carreer if they disregard direct order. Not much he/she can do unless he/she wanted wanted to be captain/major for the rest of their military career right? I only try to give us different perspective.

Now there are some inperfect planning from time to time for various reasons due to the development of the new technology is too fast for some older officer to follow or can sometime be he just dont know what his doing period. It happens in private sector as well. There is this "Obrolan warung kopi" about the Rusky chopper undergoing upgrade/maintenance work. The aim for "Safer/ability" in night fly condition was one of the objective. But it seems like it missing something small but significant in the scope of work which is cockpit "green" light. Now if you using NVG it would be too bright if its not "green" thus giving pilot difficulty to read the instrumen. This was found by low ranking officer and the contractor while the work is being done. The "perusahaan yg di rekomendasikan" report it and after getting the permission they installed it. They can choose to ignore it because changing scope of work and modifying item list that related to budget aint an easy task. It only a small example but Im sure we get the point.

Talking about the Iver; now dont let our hope of having powerful iver fade out. Those leaks that we have is like the basic one with option to upgrade, that is good enough for now. We dont know what type of Iver we going to have so if the Navy decided to go basic-give the Iver a try out once completed-feel the ship then they can decide whether to upgrade it or not. We dont want to experience what brunei have with the "original" bung tomo class right? Full of muscle but the sailors yells "Kapal oleng kapten"!!