Indonesia Defence Forum

[san.geuk]

I don't think 120mm is necessary since Harimau is not designed to go head2head with MBT in the first place (CMIIW). Harimau will act more as an FSV so 105mm is enough (resulting in a lighter weight, more ammo capacity, and perhaps cheaper price per hull)

what if we upgrade the gun with 120, add more armor and perhaps upgrade gun stabilizer, engine, gearbox and suspension perhaps it can head to head with MBT

 

[Chestnut]

105mm is pretty obsolete in today's world. When the majority of AT weapons are now composed of ATGM's and 120mm guns, a 105mm can't cut it anymore.

I don't see the problems with the 3105 gun. Remember we're in asia. 105mm can still pierced through >90% of most armor in the region.

A 105mm can't K-kill a Leo 2, a PT-91M, or an M1 Abrams. And I genuinely don't think it can penetrate a Type-99/99A.

I don't think 120mm is necessary since Harimau is not designed to go head2head with MBT in the first place (CMIIW). Harimau will act more as an FSV so 105mm is enough (resulting in a lighter weight, more ammo capacity, and perhaps cheaper price per hull)

That's what I am saying, if it wanted to do infantry support it would have been better to just arm the thing with a 30mm or a 40mm autocannon.

what if we upgrade the gun with 120, add more armor and perhaps upgrade gun stabilizer, engine, gearbox and suspension perhaps it can head to head with MBT

It can but we all know they won't do that because that would be expensive.

 

[zargonmuntanu]

what if we upgrade the gun with 120, add more armor and perhaps upgrade gun stabilizer, engine, gearbox and suspension perhaps it can head to head with MBT

well just buy another mbt then if you really want that

 

[umigami]

what if we upgrade the gun with 120, add more armor and perhaps upgrade gun stabilizer, engine, gearbox and suspension perhaps it can head to head with MBT

Just don't overdo it. No matter how much you upgrade it, it'll never be an MBT and the price will skyrocketed too.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

what if we upgrade the gun with 120, add more armor and perhaps upgrade gun stabilizer, engine, gearbox and suspension perhaps it can head to head with MBT

Then just buy more leopards. [emoji58]

The harimau were never meant to engage MBT head on. It's to give effective long range fire supports to the infantry.

 

[san.geuk]

well just buy another mbt then if you really want that

Just don't overdo it. No matter how much you upgrade it, it'll never be an MBT and the price will skyrocketed too.

Then just buy more leopards. [emoji58]
The harimau were never meant to engage MBT head on. It's to give effective long range fire supports to the infantry.

i'm just thinking after we able build medium tank even with turks assistance, we can build our own mbt, but how far about technology leap from medium tank to mbt? aside of gun, armor, suspension and engine?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

105mm is pretty obsolete in today's world. When the majority of AT weapons are now composed of ATGM's and 120mm guns, a 105mm can't cut it anymore.



A 105mm can't K-kill a Leo 2, a PT-91M, or an M1 Abrams. And I genuinely don't think it can penetrate a Type-99/99A.




That's what I am saying, if it wanted to do infantry support it would have been better to just arm the thing with a 30mm or a 40mm autocannon.


It can but we all know they won't do that because that would be expensive.

No but it can penetrate MOST armor. That's the point. Especially armor from the cold war or something lighter like an apc or an ifv of which they are the most likely adversary for the harimau then a modern MBT.

The 105mm are obsolete in europe but not in Asia they still have another couple decades of use left. Beside the harimau can be fitted with the 120mm if needed. So relax mate.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

I sincerely doubt Pindad contributed much during the design process. Keep in mind Pindad is a BUMN company, and their main objective most of the time isn't to help create a sustaining local defense industry (because if they do they won't purposely gimp local private companies to maintain their monopoly), it's more or less just job creation. If you look at Pindad, the reason they can't meet production quotas is because they refuse to automate a lot of their production lines as to not cut jobs. Why else would ammo production still not meet the TNI's yearly quota? A government's main concern is staying in power, so a company run by a government would obviously try and help that government stay in power.

Well said That is the root problem in all BUMN

 

[Chestnut]

i'm just thinking after we able build medium tank even with turks assistance, we can build our own mbt, but how far about technology leap from medium tank to mbt? aside of gun, armor, suspension and engine?

An MBT project is a national prestige project. Prepare to lose money developing an MBT and not make profit on it.

No but it can penetrate MOST armor. That's the point. Especially armor from the cold war or something lighter like an apc or an ifv of which they are the most likely adversary for the harimau then a modern MBT.

The 105mm are obsolete in europe but not in Asia they still have another couple decades of use left. Beside the harimau can be fitted with the 120mm if needed. So relax mate.

So can an IFV with a 30mm/40mm autocannon + ATGM's. And an IFV would still be a lot more cost effective as it can do more than just FSV tasks. I still stand by my statement how the Harimau isn't a well planned project.

 

[Ruhnama]

My biggest gripe; Too little armor for it's weight.

Anyone know kaplan armor thickness ? Om windu said it is stanag 4 and front stanag 5. 105 mm but it is equipped with falarick it can use against mbt. But if we upgrase kaplan to use 120mm are tank structure strong enough to absorb the energy? Or we still want use 120 mm so maybe using oto melara 120 mm low pressure gun. As i remember from kaskus trid in 2015s low pressure gun mean lower velocity. Projectile use kinetic energy so faster better

Imho cmiiw. (Btw we take 105 cockeril for tot? Or not? Or something kerja sama?)

Mau mbt?
Ambil altay turki aja dah. Projek mandeg mrk tank dah bagus eh pas mau dproduksi ga bisa make mesin jerman kenak sanksi. Muter2 mrk cari mesin ntah Inggris, Korsel atau AS kwkwkk. K2 versi tanpa autoloader.

 

[Chestnut]

Mau mbt?
Ambil altay turki aja dah. Projek mandeg mrk tank dah bagus eh pas mau dproduksi ga bisa make mesin jerman kenak sanksi. Muter2 mrk cari mesin ntah Inggris, Korsel atau AS kwkwkk. K2 versi tanpa autoloader.

They can barely continue the program now that Erdogan is attempting to become Ottoman Empire 2.0

Better to just stick to the Leopard 2 at this point.

 

[Kansel]

If I'm not wrong several times ago we discussed about development for National MBT project right? It's included on Program pertahanan strategis. I forget the link for it tho.

 

[Lasa-X]

Lesson from battle of Marawi, small calibre guns can't do much in urban warfare where building made from concrete blocks.
AFP found that 105mm is best for them to make a way for friendly force trough the building or destroy enemies hid behind the wall.

I believe this is one of the reasons they are in the market for 105mm-equipped medium tank. Their 76mm and 90mm were not good enough as expected.
So to say certain calibre is better than others is relatively depend on which battle environment you are in.

 

[Kansel]

They can barely continue the program now that Erdogan is attempting to become Ottoman Empire 2.0

Better to just stick to the Leopard 2 at this point.

At this point i hope we can purchase PzH 2000+leo 2a7 together there's a price discount for it AFAIK.

 

[Nike]

At this point i hope we can purchase PzH 2000+leo 2a7 together there's a price discount for it AFAIK.

If there's chance to procure more Leopard 2 A4 just get it, and use that as chance to do your own Leopard modernization program in house. There's some sizeable Leopard 2A4 on market, Spanish Leo and Swiss is still up to grab. And more if any European countries got hit too hard by corona virus