Indonesia Defence Forum

[Gen3115]

I got his email Nilgiri, i have unbanned him. Thanks for your help in this.

Thank you, I'll try and notify him

 

[Chestnut]

Ayy Lmao I'm back

 

[Nilgiri]

Ayy Lmao I'm back

Welcome back! I do read your posts from time to time (this is an interesting thread in general for me to silently follow) and enjoy them! Keep at it.

Was happy to help out for your return

 

[Fl0gger]

Ayy Lmao I'm back

welcome

 

[Chestnut]

Or Naval Strike Missile? I guess it's time to move beyond Exocet

It's the NSM, the company I used to work for were pitching it alot.

T

Welcome back! I do read your posts from time to time (this is an interesting thread in general for me to silently follow) and enjoy them! Keep at it.

Was happy to help out for your return

Thanks my guy

View attachment 626113 View attachment 626115 View attachment 626116 View attachment 626117
My biggest complaint for harimau is it's so back heavy. Why it always "mendongak" so high (especially when moving) it expose its bottom side?
And it make its weird high bow model looks even more weird.

That's actually what the biggest complaint was. The vehicle was too large and the front elevated to high every time the vehicle moved forward because it is a back heavy vehicle. The argument was that if the vehicle was already that big they might as well just order more Leopard 2's and standardize all operational tanks into one platform for easier training and maintenance. Not to mention a Leopard 2 had better armor and firepower.

 

[Lasa-X]

Now everyone please take a chill pill and relax a bit. We are all already exhausted with corona thing. Don't bring more pressure to this forum please.

Back to military discussion!

 

[Chestnut]

we should ask for essm, it has a longer range (50km vs 20km) and probably cheaper due to more broad users compared to VL MICA.

If I'm not mistaken.omega spec only give you 1x24 vls VL mica. while this have 2x24. so maybe yes we are going for the omega albeit with heavier loadout than previously offered by damen.

is it possible to get SM-2 as well though?

they're probably going for VL MICA since all the other surface combatants use them? But the Mk 41 VLS on the list still confuses me though, unless they're actually compatible all along and we don't know it

Yes it's possible for to get the SM-2 missile series. Contrary to popular belief it's cheaper to buy US missiles than European ones. It's just that European deals are easier to corrupt than a US FMS deal.

sm.2 atau patriot is "gucci " stuff itu amraam ajah mintanya udh dr brp puluh tahun yang lalu makanya nama S-400 muncul as a "bargain " stuff deter US to give more their stuff to us as tier 1 or 2 allies F.35 to tapi US itu juga pinter ga ngasih secara lgs tapi di giring ke euro NATO country and actualy some of euro stuff is surpass US and kl US lgs kasih itu polisi oceania bisa ngambek apache di kasih juga karena mereka pilih tiger...loyal wing man masih jauuh..tapi every thing still possible caouse they surely dont want us be a proxy of "east" but in same time dont wanna us to become to strong...dilema buat mereka juga kita tergantung dr sisi mana kita melihat dan menilai nya karena bukan tidak mungkin kl indonesia become like china as economicly or power that they surely dont want to or fear that why they have kepentingan agar menjaga indonesia in control...strong indonesia is good but to strong..?? is bad...

The reason we never had AMRAAMs wasn't because the US refused to supply us after the 2003 embargo. Rather we didn't have any platforms that can actually fire them. AMRAAM capability was only available on the A/B AFTER the current MLU upgrade program.

 

[Gen3115]

Ayy Lmao I'm back

Welcome back, was about to tell a friend to notify you, but I don't think I need to do that anymore

It's the NSM, the company I used to work for were pitching it alot.

Is it possible for us to get the air-launched JSM for the AU as well and are our current F-16 MLU's able to carry those if it happens?

I always think there's a lack of maritime strike capability for the Air Force other than the Kh-31A's and the AGM-65's

 

[Chestnut]

Exocet block 3? They are still dope, land attack capability is deemed efficient for beyond saving stingy bin medit Indonesia government. I would see they still use Exocet even three decades ahead

The only problem with the Exocet series is that literally every ship missile defense platform on the planet uses it as their benchmark. You can thank the Argentinians for that.

Is it possible for us to get the air-launched JSM for the AU as well and are our current F-16 MLU's able to carry those if it happens?

I always think there's a lack of maritime strike capability for the Air Force other than the Kh-31A's and the AGM-65's

Wouldn't know, I hope so. Considering the most pressing adversary currently is the People's Liberation Army Navy it's not out of the realm of possibility that they already have the strike data for the Kh-31 and have adjusted their systems accordingly.

 

[striver44]

Yes it's possible for to get the SM-2 missile series. Contrary to popular belief it's cheaper to buy US missiles than European ones. It's just that European deals are easier to corrupt than a US FMS deal.


The reason we never had AMRAAMs wasn't because the US refused to supply us after the 2003 embargo. Rather we didn't have any platforms that can actually fire them. AMRAAM capability was only available on the A/B AFTER the current MLU upgrade program.

hey it's nice to see you back

 

[Gen3115]

Yes it's possible for to get the SM-2 missile series. Contrary to popular belief it's cheaper to buy US missiles than European ones. It's just that European deals are easier to corrupt than a US FMS deal.

Yea I prefer SM-2 if possible especially if it turns out to be cheaper, but the only thing that I keep wondering is US approval, but I think that might not be a problem in the future

Wouldn't know, I hope so. Considering the most pressing adversary currently is the People's Liberation Army Navy it's not out of the realm of possibility that they already have the strike data for the Kh-31 and have adjusted their systems accordingly.

This is also one of the things I worry about the Su-35, if the PLA is really our biggest potential adversary, why are we desperately trying get a jet that they have and have more experience in, there's not much deterrence in that, but yea I think we all know Su-35 is money maker for certain politicians

 

[Chestnut]

Actually i want ask chestnut how could pindad wrong in designing tank that unfit for Indonesian crew. Likely everything designed with anthropometry etc (i just learn about it) and what is another kaplan faulty.

I sincerely doubt Pindad contributed much during the design process. Keep in mind Pindad is a BUMN company, and their main objective most of the time isn't to help create a sustaining local defense industry (because if they do they won't purposely gimp local private companies to maintain their monopoly), it's more or less just job creation. If you look at Pindad, the reason they can't meet production quotas is because they refuse to automate a lot of their production lines as to not cut jobs. Why else would ammo production still not meet the TNI's yearly quota? A government's main concern is staying in power, so a company run by a government would obviously try and help that government stay in power.

Yea I prefer SM-2 if possible especially if it turns out to be cheaper, but the only thing that I keep wondering is US approval, but I think that might not be a problem in the future

Why wouldn't they? Were essentially a US ally at this point even though the government doesn't want to admit it. And an SM-2 isn't THAT terribly sensitive.

This is also one of the things I worry about the Su-35, if the PLA is really our biggest potential adversary, why are we desperately trying get a jet that they have and have more experience in, there's not much deterrence in that, but yea I think we all know Su-35 is money maker for certain politicians

It's literally just corruption. There's no 4D chess game playing in the background, no brinkmanship strategy running concurrently with everyday society. The reason it's still being talked about is largely because some boomer wants a new 2021 Mercedes-Benz because he got bored of his 2018 Mercedes-Benz.

 

[Nike]

Well, the story that I know was US only offered block F-16 A/B 15 OCU to RI. Never C/D.
In fact, they first offered ADF variant to SEA region (Thailand). Then RSAF got 15 OCU. So everyone then got 15 OCU too.

View attachment 626341
15 OCU was wiring for amraam so it can carry amraam. The capability was there foe OCU. But if the customer need to upgrade the software for that.

So the next question is, did AF really need and ask for medium range at that time? No money? No deeper research about advantage to have medium range missile/amraam? Not allowed by US congress? Or simply think that sidewinder+cannon+iron bomb was enough to defeat any adversaries in region? (Thank God for maverick missile!).
Eventhough the first gulf war in early 90s showed first kill by amraam should become a lesson for modern AF.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article6.html

well lacks of funding is the reason why Indonesian Air Forces never trying to do upgrade program for our OCU fleets until very recently, meanwhile Israel and Singapore had offered the packages (ACE program) since early 1990. Indonesian Air Force bought F16 actually as daylight fighter bomber to replace some obsolete fighter bomber they already had (A4 and OV 10) so there is no urgent need for advanced weapons targeting and sensor let alone advanced Air to Air Missiles

 

[Chestnut]

Also before anyone asks, I don't hate the Kaplan MT or think it's useless, I just don't think it's a cost effective or well thought out program.

For the most part, if we're expected to engage tanks that lands on our shores then it's already hopelessly outclassed by the fact it only has a 105mm gun. Were it to have a 120mm L/44 then I could understand the idea, but obviously that's not the case here. Furthermore if the idea of it being an infantry support vehicle in a mostly jungle environment, then it's stupid to give it a 105mm instead of an autocannon. Yes, tank cannons work well in urban terrain like Fallujah and Grozny, but if you were to engage Infantry teams or light vehicles in a mixture of open and triple canopy brush then it'd make more sense to have a rapid firing autocannon then one HEAT/HESH shell every couple of seconds. Finally, it's pretty hard to justify the $7 mil price tag for what's essentially a very niche vehicle. If it were a modular chassis that (without modification of the chassis) be able to carry troops and mount an assortment of turrets (similar to the Ajax SV or the BMP-3) then I can see it costing around that ballpark, but again that's not the reality here.

All in all it's mostly a politically driven project. I'd rather the government had a true competion between global prime contractors and just let Pindad have a modest integration work contract. It's a waste of taxpayer money that is better spent on the Air Force or the Navy.

we should ask for essm, it has a longer range (50km vs 20km) and probably cheaper due to more broad users compared to VL MICA.

Not to mention you can quadpack an ESSM.

 

[Kansel]

Ayy Lmao I'm back

Welcome back dude! it's nice to see you again.