Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

 

[Raduga]

Or we could change the config into 1x 127 mm gun and 2x ciws

76mm strales CIWS + oto breda 127mm

 

[Kansel]

Turki Lirik RI Jadi Mitra Program TF-X, Jet Tempur Umat Islam
Muhaimin
Selasa 14 Januari 2020 - 11:19 WIB

Kerumunan orang berkumpul di sekitar model skala penuh dari TF-X Turkish Aerospace Industries di Paris Air Show pada 17 Juni 2019. Foto/Valerie Insinna/Staff/Defense News


ANKARA - Perusahaan dirgantara milik negara Turki mengundang Malaysia untuk bergabung dengan program jet tempur asli Ankara, TF-X. Perusahaan juga mempertimbangkan mengajak Indonesia sebagai mitra potensial dari program pesawat yang oleh Ankara disebut sebagai "jet tempur pertama umat Islam".

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) mengembangkan pesawat tempur lokal setelah Ankara ditangguhkan keanggotaannya dari program konsorsium bersama F-35 Joint Strike Fighter yang dipimpin Amerika Serikat (AS).

CEO TAI, Temel Kotil, mengatakan dia sekarang menunggu balasan Malaysia. Pada tahun lalu, TAI menandatangani nota kesepahaman dengan negara Asia tersebut untuk produksi bersama komposit TF-X.

Baca Juga:

• Korsel Siap Bantu RI Pindahkan Ibu Kota
• Korsel Bantu Indonesia Kembangkan Kapal Selam
• Senjata Api Legendaris Paling Mematikan di Dunia

TAI juga mempertimbangkan Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh dan Kazakhstan sebagai mitra potensial atau pembeli jet tempur masa depan itu.

"(TF-X) akan menjadi jet tempur besar pertama umat Islam," kata Kotil, seperti dikutip Defense News, Selasa (14/1/2020). "Membangun pesawat terlebih dahulu dan kemudian menjualnya adalah modalitas. Tetapi kami pikir lebih baik jika kami menerima mitra pada tahap ini," ujarnya.

Perusahaan juga mengundang Malaysia untuk jadi mitra dalam program Hurkus, sebuah pesawat latih dan pesawat penyerang ringan.

Di sisi lain, pemerintah Turki ingin menghidupkan kembali pembicaraan dengan perusahaan Inggris Rolls-Royce untuk desain dan produksi TF-X.

Menteri Luar Negeri Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu mengatakan pada bulan Desember lalu bahwa pemerintah ingin bergerak maju dengan kerjasama yang direncanakan dengan Inggris untuk produksi pesawat. Namun, Turki pertama-tama harus memilih mesin untuk TF-X dan kemudian menyelesaikan desain pesawat secara penuh, sebuah proses yang tertinggal dari jadwal.

Kesepakatan senilai USD131 juta antara Rolls-Royce dan pabrikan Turki, Kale Group, secara efektif ditunda di tengah ketidakpastian transfer teknologi.

Pada Oktober 2016, Rolls-Royce menawarkan kemitraan produksi bersama kepada Turki untuk memperkuat platform yang direncanakan negara itu. Tawaran itu melibatkan penjualan potensial kepada pihak ketiga dan unit produksi di Turki guna memproduksi mesin untuk TF-X serta helikopter, tank dan rudal.

Pejabat kedirgantaraan dan pengadaan Turki berharap bisa menerbangkan TF-X dalam kerangka waktu 2025-2026, meskipun target aslinya tahun 2023.

https://international.sindonews.com...program-tf-x-jet-tempur-umat-islam-1578975549

 

[Nike]

meanwhile KFX is almost full of US tech and supplemented by European tech especially Germany and France, TFX is almost exclusively supported by UK. I am think its more worthed to depend on US tech compared to UK, even politically it will be safer with the US.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Turki Lirik RI Jadi Mitra Program TF-X, Jet Tempur Umat Islam
Muhaimin
Selasa 14 Januari 2020 - 11:19 WIB

Kerumunan orang berkumpul di sekitar model skala penuh dari TF-X Turkish Aerospace Industries di Paris Air Show pada 17 Juni 2019. Foto/Valerie Insinna/Staff/Defense News


ANKARA - Perusahaan dirgantara milik negara Turki mengundang Malaysia untuk bergabung dengan program jet tempur asli Ankara, TF-X. Perusahaan juga mempertimbangkan mengajak Indonesia sebagai mitra potensial dari program pesawat yang oleh Ankara disebut sebagai "jet tempur pertama umat Islam".

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) mengembangkan pesawat tempur lokal setelah Ankara ditangguhkan keanggotaannya dari program konsorsium bersama F-35 Joint Strike Fighter yang dipimpin Amerika Serikat (AS).

CEO TAI, Temel Kotil, mengatakan dia sekarang menunggu balasan Malaysia. Pada tahun lalu, TAI menandatangani nota kesepahaman dengan negara Asia tersebut untuk produksi bersama komposit TF-X.

Baca Juga:

• Korsel Siap Bantu RI Pindahkan Ibu Kota
• Korsel Bantu Indonesia Kembangkan Kapal Selam
• Senjata Api Legendaris Paling Mematikan di Dunia

TAI juga mempertimbangkan Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh dan Kazakhstan sebagai mitra potensial atau pembeli jet tempur masa depan itu.

"(TF-X) akan menjadi jet tempur besar pertama umat Islam," kata Kotil, seperti dikutip Defense News, Selasa (14/1/2020). "Membangun pesawat terlebih dahulu dan kemudian menjualnya adalah modalitas. Tetapi kami pikir lebih baik jika kami menerima mitra pada tahap ini," ujarnya.

Perusahaan juga mengundang Malaysia untuk jadi mitra dalam program Hurkus, sebuah pesawat latih dan pesawat penyerang ringan.

Di sisi lain, pemerintah Turki ingin menghidupkan kembali pembicaraan dengan perusahaan Inggris Rolls-Royce untuk desain dan produksi TF-X.

Menteri Luar Negeri Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu mengatakan pada bulan Desember lalu bahwa pemerintah ingin bergerak maju dengan kerjasama yang direncanakan dengan Inggris untuk produksi pesawat. Namun, Turki pertama-tama harus memilih mesin untuk TF-X dan kemudian menyelesaikan desain pesawat secara penuh, sebuah proses yang tertinggal dari jadwal.

Kesepakatan senilai USD131 juta antara Rolls-Royce dan pabrikan Turki, Kale Group, secara efektif ditunda di tengah ketidakpastian transfer teknologi.

Pada Oktober 2016, Rolls-Royce menawarkan kemitraan produksi bersama kepada Turki untuk memperkuat platform yang direncanakan negara itu. Tawaran itu melibatkan penjualan potensial kepada pihak ketiga dan unit produksi di Turki guna memproduksi mesin untuk TF-X serta helikopter, tank dan rudal.

Pejabat kedirgantaraan dan pengadaan Turki berharap bisa menerbangkan TF-X dalam kerangka waktu 2025-2026, meskipun target aslinya tahun 2023.

https://international.sindonews.com...program-tf-x-jet-tempur-umat-islam-1578975549

Wtf since when did jet fighters have anything to do with religion lol?

Still, KFX/IFX is a safer bet than the TFX, we already have significant ties with South Korea, and the fact the program is already halfway there, we should not look elsewhere and just focus on the KFX. But anyway, dies "Malaysian aerospace industry" capable to build a full working aircraft? at least a full airframe?

 

[NEKONEKO]

But anyway, dies "Malaysian aerospace industry" capable to build a full working aircraft? at least a full airframe?

Does 6th generation jet fighter count?

KFX looks more promising than TFX for me, TFX will be more superior than KFX with stronger eurojet engine (from what I read on the internet), but now its seems that TFX will use indigenous engine which is still not developed yet, well I wish the best for them.

It will be good if Turkey just join KFX, but well different requirements I guess.

 

[Raduga]

Wtf since when did jet fighters have anything to do with religion lol?

Still, KFX/IFX is a safer bet than the TFX, we already have significant ties with South Korea, and the fact the program is already halfway there, we should not look elsewhere and just focus on the KFX. But anyway, dies "Malaysian aerospace industry" capable to build a full working aircraft? at least a full airframe?

i couldn't blame it , but the current administration of turkey is a conservative and under one of the most powerful clandestine global islamic organization , and that sounds like it was a rhetoric statement for "nilai jual" , especially with majority of indonesian people love to hear about "islamic solidarity" stuff , maybe could help things for the turk lobbyist to get easier acceptance.

however turkey already prove to be a decent partner with the recent medium tank cooperation , just maybe , MAYBE , if they had a 5th gen or 6th gen single engine or light fighter project , it could probably get accepted by our mindef .

about malaysia , i know it's hard to accept truth , but in this case , malaysia aerospace parts manufacture industry is more better and prove more beneficial and profitable than us , i dont know why PT DI won't do the same like malaysia does , this also one of the reason why PT-DI always got rumored and shadowed by "bankruptcy" , malaysia maybe does not have any capability to build a full fledge aircraft now , but if turk aim for malaysia to produce its parts for their TF-X , it's still a profitable project outcome . (mungkin ada sepuh disini yang lebih paham soal permasalahan PTDI , diatas hanya opini saya saja)

 

[Chestnut]

Because IMO that card is not playable, blackmailing them to get something in exchange of purchasing their MAX plane? I don't think public would like to fly using MAX again, I think it will take years to get the public trust, its too risky for the airline.
Even from the released Boeing internal message, some employees won't let their family to fly on MAX.
Blackmailing Boeing by threatening not to buy their other jet? Our airliners need them tho.
Maybe Lion Air can blackmail Boeing because Boeing employee called Lion Air stupid. Hm....
We already threatening EU (Airbus), because of the palm oil discrimination, though we are not saying it clearly.


Then that should be the goal, a decent number of this big ship.


Implying that naval combat will only happen in our own water.

Our water area is so big, and its not only banda shelf we also have the pacific ocean front, indian ocean front north natuna front and our eastern waters which are quite deep.
We should face the enemy on the high seas, not waiting them to get close to our shores. We should venture to the north natuna sea rather than waiting and hiding between natuna island chain. Should face the enemy from south directly rather than waiting and hiding around lombok strait, bali strait, alas strait, alor strait etc, or waiting around chain of island there, we need to patrol and hunt enemy submarines too.

Having assets that can do hit and run tactic are good, but why limit our capabilities to only that?

Because our entire doctrine and constitution pretty much keeps us towards operating within our EEZ? We have literally zero interests abroad. Why bother having big costly ships and send them outside our waters? Flexing? That's not a viable defense strategy.

And even if you want to face adversaries in the high seas, how do you propose replenishing and rearming them? Ship-2-Ship replenishment is not an effective way of keeping our ships battle ready. Eventually they need to re-dock, which you can't do during blue water operations far from your shore. Unlike China we have no naval bases abroad. Within our EEZ we have the strategic advantage of having ports to replenish our ships, Airbases for MPA's and AShW equipped strike fighters, and shore based AShW batteries. The ball is in our court. Why sacrifice all that just to send a couple of ship outside where they'd likely be outnumbered and outgunned? National pride? Formil circle jerking?

 

[striver44]

Because our entire doctrine and constitution pretty much keeps us towards operating within our EEZ? We have literally zero interests abroad. Why bother having big costly ships and send them outside our waters? Flexing? That's not a viable defense strategy.

And even if you want to face adversaries in the high seas, how do you propose replenishing and rearming them? Ship-2-Ship replenishment is not an effective way of keeping our ships battle ready. Eventually they need to re-dock, which you can't do during blue water operations far from your shore. Unlike China we have no naval bases abroad. Within our EEZ we have the strategic advantage of having ports to replenish our ships, Airbases for MPA's and AShW equipped strike fighters, and shore based AShW batteries. The ball is in our court. Why sacrifice all that just to send a couple of ship outside where they'd likely be outnumbered and outgunned? National pride? Formil circle jerking?

I agree on one thing and that is the change completely our defence doctrine, internal dissent had always been TNI main threat (at least from their point of view). TNI must be prepared for conflict with peer adversaries, no longer with machette and bow armed rebels.

 

[Kansel]

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[striver44]

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So PT PAL identifies an FAC as an OPV?We should find another name. KCR does not fit especially when its speed is just over 26-27knots. Maybe KPS-60 is better.
KPS stands for Kapal Patroli Samudra

 

[HellFireIndo]

So PT PAL identifies an FAC as an OPV?We should find another name. KCR does not fit especially when its speed is just over 26-27knots. Maybe KPS-60 is better.
KPS stands for Kapal Patroli Samudra

How about Kapal Patroli Pesisir?

 

[Kansel]

https://maritimebulletin.net/2020/0...-indonesia-while-sailing-in-singapore-strait/

Two South Korean ships detained by Indonesia while sailing in Singapore Strait
Mikhail VoytenkoNewsJanuary 16, 2020 6:32 am
Post Views: 1,349
Indonesia detained two South Korean ships on unclear grounds, and is keeping them in detention, anchored in Singapore Strait waters between Indonesian islands Bintan and Batam. LPG tanker DL LILY was seized on Oct 9, while en route from Port Klang to Singapore, and is kept since then at her present position. Bulk carrier CH BELLA was seized on Jan 11, NW of Bintan island, where she anchored on Jan 9 shortly after leaving Singapore. Indonesia says both ships were seized for violating nation’s border and sailing into territorial waters. Crews of both ships are restricted in their movements and remain on board, it is said, that the supplies like food and water are regularly replenished.
What it’s all about, is absolutely unclear. Indonesia may seize half of Singapore Strait trafficking ships, if applying that “territorial waters violation” rule in full. What’s the meaning of it? What’s the purpose? Malaysia is regularly detaining foreign ships for allegedly, unauthorized anchorage, so often that this violation may be considered as a source of income for Malaysian budget. Indonesia found this innovatiive scheme useful and worthy of implementation?
LPG tanker DL LILY, IMO 9519688, dwt 4999, built 2011, flag Panama, manager NDSM CO LTD, Busan, Korea.
Bulk carrier CH BELLA, IMO 9489235, dwt 33144, built 2010, flag South Korea, manager CHANG MYUNG SHIPPING CO LTD.

 

[Ruhnama]

mk41/57 series VLS

American VLS also can used for aster15/30 so maybe if we cant get US weapon we can take french vice versa

Since then, the military has believed any threat to Indonesia will come internally through groups who secretly support and help the enemies of the country, instead of from external direct military invasion.

Very old mindset from our armed force, why not we make a mew branch dealing speacillay for internal trouble? Volunteer or reserved force like US national guard maybe good or french style gendermarie or russian mdv troop.
Still we think internall problem more threat that foreign invasion. If we afraid rebel armed by foreign govt like permesta so likely our govt must has good intel etc to counter problem like that and not just TNI to dealing with rebel.

Rolls-Royce menawarkan kemitraan produksi bersama kepada Turki untuk memperkuat platform yang direncanakan negara itu.

Wtf since when did jet fighters have anything to do with religion lol?

Di media turki gada yg bilang gtu deh misal "ilk musluman savas ucagi" gada yang da "mili muharip ucagi" wkwkkwkw

Still i not believe in TFX 100% i dont like this project, sorry to say for turkish friend. Still they must strugle to choose what suitable engine for tfx. Some say roll royce
some say ej200 some say ge f110 made from tusas. But turkey has experience makin stealth aircraft fuselage and cockpit.

It will be good if Turkey just join KFX, but well different requirements I guess.

Turki gak mau cuman dkasih 20% doang maunya 40% awalnya mrk mau join kfx. KFX use eurojet? Is kfx use f414 same engine use by gripen amd f18?
Turki bisa lisnesi engine buatan AS ge f110 mklum kn buat f16 mrk

 

[striver44]

Very old mindset from our armed force, why not we make a mew branch dealing speacillay for internal trouble? Volunteer or reserved force like US national guard maybe good or french style gendermarie or russian mdv troop.
Still we think internall problem more threat that foreign invasion. If we afraid rebel armed by foreign govt like permesta so likely our govt must has good intel etc to counter problem like that and not just TNI to dealing with rebel.

we actually have the police for that, i just hope that young minds somehow made it to the top of the military and make serious reforms.the current admin decision to appoint a chief of staff from the air force is a good but very small step for that.
but Indonesian politics are filled by ex generals, and most of them are from the army, so this is a gargantuan task.