Indonesia Defence Forum

[wahyusurya2020]

well, let just go for Iver for all then,

iver has reasonable price just we look the capabilty production on PT.PAL

 

[NEKONEKO]

Credit to Lembaga Keris

Webinar June 5th, 2020

View attachment 662747

Acquisition of frigate and corvette, Iver and PKR is considered frigate thus new mystery corvette will be chosen.

Acquisition of submarine ( missile and torpedo) so we will buy submarine that are capable to launch missile.

Acquisition of tactical and strategic missile to defend main islands + choke points, don't know TNI classification, could be cruise missile / ballistic missile , surface to surface / surface to air.

Underwater detection sistem, so like SOSUS.

What is that thing?

 

[mejikuhibiu]

as for my 2 cent of opinion , we should go with intermediate frigate a.k.a the Admiral Ronarc'h , we shall stay away from PKR Gowind pseudo corvette frigate design as for now , a ship with limited capability but a burden on operational and maintenance support cost .

If we looking voor fregate better that we choose belharra,ud didaftarin jg ke dirjen hki desain nya..
For corvette why not give it to local shipyard

 

[mejikuhibiu]

Acquisition of frigate and corvette, Iver and PKR is considered frigate thus new mystery corvette will be chosen.

Acquisition of submarine ( missile and torpedo) so we will buy submarine that are capable to launch missile.

Acquisition of tactical and strategic missile to defend main islands + choke points, don't know TNI classification, could be cruise missile / ballistic missile , surface to surface / surface to air.

Underwater detection sistem, so like SOSUS.

View attachment 663252
What is that thing?

Tactical /strategiv missile.. i think it will be merad sam system.

 

[Kansel]

as for my 2 cent of opinion , we should go with intermediate frigate a.k.a the Admiral Ronarc'h , we shall stay away from PKR Gowind pseudo corvette frigate design as for now , a ship with limited capability but a burden on operational and maintenance support cost .

Don't get me wrong, it's better for navy to get this kind of ship instead of second used ship such bremen or u206. Anything except second hand ship is good for me

 

[Raduga]

in terms of firepower, gowind, bellhara and PKR isnt so different though. why dont we just stick with PKR ?

belharra can afford up to 32x SYLVER VLS not mentioning the new Sea Fire 500 AESA radar dubbed as smartphone of radar they'd use have an air surveillance range over 500km compared to smart-s mk2 .

 

[Raduga]

iver has reasonable price just we look the capabilty production on PT.PAL

we really need a new drydock / assembly dock capacity that can afford to build and assemble more than 1 iver huitfeldt hull at the same time , i agree if the iver should be the backbone for our heavy frigate fleet .

the previous WEB UI automatically will merge your comment if you already have one on top , they'd just seperate it now ...........

 

[Kansel]

I'm agree with you, gowind not so much advantage over martadinata class, belharrra will be better, or at least the instanbul class milgem if the price to high

I mean, DCNS actually offered us belharra design instead of gowind tho

 

[NEKONEKO]

the previous WEB UI automatically will merge your comment if you already have one on top , they'd just seperate it now ..........

Nah its already implemented even before the new UI come.
The old design will merge two post from the same member that post it in a short period of 5 mins or so, then just recently it won't merge it and now we have this new UI.

Now member that active viewing the thread is not visible, feels lonely man.

But I like the way we edit post is more convenient.

 

[Azull]

I mean, DCNS actually offered us belharra design instead of gowind tho

Really? Thats a serious contender for the Sigma 10514 then?

 

[Raduga]

I mean, DCNS actually offered us belharra design instead of gowind tho

do they offered it as part of 30$ billion soft loan ?

 

[¿Por qué?]

The main issue for F-35 is its range capability, she needs tanker to operate long distance mission. Remember most of the time the mission path is not a direct line but pretty much have to zig-zag to avoid detection from ground sites. In this case US have Stingray

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray

Idk if Aussie have it but if they dont its going to be tough for a tanker to support her since tanker can be seen clearly in radar. And we also have Kupang which will be filled with future Viper to balance the power.

I think we are on the right path in building formidable IADS, it might be in a turtle speed but at least we are in the right track. Filling the defence with SHORAD first, then MERAD (NASAMS). Once the network centric has been build we can move on to HIMAD and so on.

In this peace era what AU think they need with all those kekurangan is having interceptor/air supperiority fighter to fastly go to the target and identify it. Like I said before, lacking air def system can be covered by having more fighters to build acceptable layer of air def area. Thats why Sukhoi is still needed to fill this gap whether we like it or not until the new replacement come. (I still remember how our pilots "complain" about sukro not so ergonomic seat when sukro first batch came, and how our technician able to replace the seat with F5E seat to give more comfort for our pilot )

Nice one

Yes, I heard similar argument before from people who support the procurement of SU-35. To counter 5th gen fighter our best option now is Sukhoi.

 

[¿Por qué?]

You do realize we have more concrete military cooperation agreements with the United States and her MNNA allies such as Australia and Singapore compared to that of China and Russia, right? The TNI has historically been aligned rather closely to their Western counterparts irrespective of the civilian government's policy toward the West (thanks to Suharto).

We are non-alligned only by name. You don't need an official declaration from MenLu to see that. And that's not fanboyism, really just stop and look at who has been around doing major exercises and doing AFB/Naval base visits.

If anything, politically we're Sweden. Officially we're "Neutral" but push comes to shove we know which orbit we're going to run to.

Can you not thinking about China for just a second? I told you I hate China as much as you do.

Sweden? Really? Dude, have the U.S. or Europe ever punished them with military embargo?

Thanks to Suharto, huh? It's really convenient that right at the end of his reign, after saying yes to them for decades, they eventually showed us how they really see us by embargoing us

Indonesia's prospect of operating F-35's already dates back to 2008, getting F-16V's/operating latest F-16's is preliminary step to operating F-35's. Most of the F-35 operators are currently part of the JSF program or are already operating the latest F-16's.
View attachment 663231

If by "latest F-16s" means it's our F-16D (our F-16D is the same as Singapore one's, right?), then I'm okay with this.

but If that means we have to buy 3 squadrons of F-16V first, then I'd have a 2nd thought.

In 2019 we've had more exercises with the US than most countries in the region other than the Philippines, Australia and Japan, we even had more military exercises with the US than that of Singapore who people perceive as a US ally even though officially they're not.View attachment 663227

I don't mind bartering. Let them have our military exercise and let us have their arsenal

 

[umigami]

Can you not thinking about China for just a second? I told you I hate China as much as you do.

Sweden? Really? Dude, have the U.S. or Europe ever punished them with military embargo?

Thanks to Suharto, huh? It's really convenient that right at the end of his reign, after saying yes to them for decades, they eventually showed us how they really see us by embargoing us



If by "latest F-16s" means it's our F-16D (our F-16D is the same as Singapore one's, right?), then I'm okay with this.

but If that means we have to buy 3 squadrons of F-16V first, then I'd have a 2nd thought.



I don't mind bartering. Let them have our military exercise and let us have their arsenal

Why? They are our biggest threat.
Don't do something stupid like Santa Cruz then!

 

[umigami]

The main issue for F-35 is its range capability, she needs tanker to operate long distance mission. Remember most of the time the mission path is not a direct line but pretty much have to zig-zag to avoid detection from ground sites. In this case US have Stingray

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray

Idk if Aussie have it but if they dont its going to be tough for a tanker to support her since tanker can be seen clearly in radar. And we also have Kupang which will be filled with future Viper to balance the power.

I think we are on the right path in building formidable IADS, it might be in a turtle speed but at least we are in the right track. Filling the defence with SHORAD first, then MERAD (NASAMS). Once the network centric has been build we can move on to HIMAD and so on.

In this peace era what AU think they need with all those kekurangan is having interceptor/air supperiority fighter to fastly go to the target and identify it. Like I said before, lacking air def system can be covered by having more fighters to build acceptable layer of air def area. Thats why Sukhoi is still needed to fill this gap whether we like it or not until the new replacement come. (I still remember how our pilots "complain" about sukro not so ergonomic seat when sukro first batch came, and how our technician able to replace the seat with F5E seat to give more comfort for our pilot )

If US offer Advance Eagle to counter it, how is it?
It can do long range interception plus data link availability and engine commonality with F16v (if they offer f15 with f100 229)