Indonesia Defence Forum

[Fl0gger]

https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/l...rate-commence-initial-mgcs-architecture-study

Prabowo should look into this compared to the Altay.

If we REALLY want to have a different MBT without shooting ourselves in the foot again with non-standardized vehicles then it's a no-brainer that we take something that uses the same hull as the Leopard 2.

ini yg so called euro tank ya combine leclerc turet with leo's Hull...?

and for altay from what i know from some sales team and some reference from other source its said that altay is design base from leopard tank its becouse they widely use leopard tank also even have the same engine before they use k2 as reference and make it FUBAR. oh yes its maybe litle sensitive but colaboration with turk is more political intrest regarding their ability of their defence industry.

 

[Chestnut]

ini yg so called euro tank ya combine leclerc turet with leo's Hull...?

and for altay from what i know from some sales team and some reference from other source its said that altay is design base from leopard tank its becouse they widely use leopard tank also even have the same engine before they use k2 as reference and make it FUBAR. oh yes its maybe litle sensitive but colaboration with turk is more political intrest regarding their ability of their defence industry.

The problem is the Turks now don't have an engine or a cannon anymore since they pissed the Germans off so bad Rheinmetall and MTU pulled out. Much like the T-129 the project is essentially dead in the water quite possibly until Erdogan either steps down or gets replaced.

Don't get me wrong had the German sanctions not happened I would be all for it (at the very least replace the A4's that they likely aren't going to upgrade). But the reality is that it's better to either procure more Leo 2's or step into the program that is considered its successor.

Why? Because:

1.) Having more Leopard 2's would be cheaper.
i.) You would not need a separate logistical chain.
ii.) With the introduction of the MGCS, Rheinmetall and KMW would be more open to local content production.

2.) If the Franco-Germans decide to open up the MGCS program to foreign funding, it would allow Pindad more experience in designing their own tracked vehicles in the future.
i.) Unlike PTDI and the KFX program, Pindad actually has undergone the necessary steps that is needed to actually manufacture tracked armored vehicles.
ii.) Pindad has so far manufactured their own indigenous designs as well as parts for the Kaplan MT. It is only natural that Pindad should take part in a program with bigger "prime" contractors in building what is considered the pinnacle in ground combat equipment.
iii.) Although Krakatau steel would likely have a problem with metallurgy issues. You can arguably offset this with western sourced steel that Pindad can shape into parts.

However number 2 would only be true only after the Franco-Germans open it up. Since it looks like they want to keep it a Franco-German project at least until the first prototype is made.

https://www.iai.it/sites/default/files/iai2007.pdf

 

[Fl0gger]

The problem is the Turks now don't have an engine or a cannon anymore since they pissed the Germans off so bad Rheinmetall and MTU pulled out. Much like the T-129 the project is essentially dead in the water quite possibly until Erdogan either steps down or gets replaced.

Don't get me wrong had the German sanctions not happened I would be all for it (at the very least replace the A4's that they likely aren't going to upgrade). But the reality is that it's better to either procure more Leo 2's or step into the program that is considered its successor.

Why? Because:

1.) Having more Leopard 2's would be cheaper.
i.) You would not need a separate logistical chain.
ii.) With the introduction of the MGCS, Rheinmetall and KMW would be more open to local content production.

2.) If the Franco-Germans decide to open up the MGCS program to foreign funding, it would allow Pindad more experience in designing their own tracked vehicles in the future.
i.) Unlike PTDI and the KFX program, Pindad actually has undergone the necessary steps that is needed to actually manufacture tracked armored vehicles.
ii.) Pindad has so far manufactured their own indigenous designs as well as parts for the Kaplan MT. It is only natural that Pindad should take part in a program with bigger "prime" contractors in building what is considered the pinnacle in ground combat equipment.
iii.) Although Krakatau steel would likely have a problem with metallurgy issues. You can arguably offset this with western sourced steel that Pindad can shape into parts.

However number 2 would only be true likely only after the Franco-Germans open it up. Since it looks like they want to keep it a Franco-German project at least until the first prototype is made.

https://www.iai.it/sites/default/files/iai2007.pdf

well in this case i couldn't more agree with you

 

[Gen3115]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1289373395927183360

This rumour about code has been lingering for years without us knowing is it true or not.
@Chestnut is it true?

I've asked about this a long before, it doesn't make sense though. If its true, then how did Pakistan use their AIM-120C-5 against the Indians during their 2019 skirmish? Did Washington really risked their relations with India just so Pakistan can have a go at the Indians? Did the Pakistanis really found time to contact Washington so they can down some Indian MiG's? If thats the case why did the US even bothered to do a count on Pakistan's F-16's after the skirmish?

 

[¿Por qué?]

Hi guys, how are you. New member here

actually not only Bremen-class, Maestrale-class Frigate and Durand De La Penne-class DDG are also included in the list of interim defense equipment procurement. depends on the MoD, which ship will be acquired

French navy has 2 Cassard-class 4500 tons destroyer, one retired last year and another will be decommissioned next year.

Not sure I can find any replacement plan for 2 Italian navy Durand de la Penne 4500 tons destroyer though.

 

[mandala]

At the comment section of this Malaysian Defence blog article people are discussing the news of the Bremen Class that Indonesia is looking at.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/walk-like-the-type-26/

With Marhalim Abas (owner of the blog and a reporter of Aviation Week) replying to a comment:

"If you read the story the decision to go with came from the MOD. I have been told by industry sources that the Indonesian Navy prefers new hulls"

 

[Cromwell]

At the comment section of this Malaysian Defence blog article people are discussing the news of the Bremen Class that Indonesia is looking at.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/walk-like-the-type-26/

With Marhalim Abas (owner of the blog and a reporter of Aviation Week) replying to a comment:

"If you read the story the decision to go with came from the MOD. I have been told by industry sources that the Indonesian Navy prefers new hulls"

From latest rumour, Iver Huitfeldt will have an effective contract by 2021, all existing now is just preamble one, PKR will be delayed beyond 2024 since no PLN ( pinjaman luar negeri ) allocated for PKR between 2020 - 2024; MV-22 Osprey for Army will have a go, The Army wants it and already allocated the fund while cost burden will be shared with US; Air Force wants another 5 H225M for C-SAR outside the contract for 9 units of H225M backthen in early 2019.

 

[Chestnut]

"If you read the story the decision to go with came from the MOD. I have been told by industry sources that the Indonesian Navy prefers new hulls"

Of course they do, keep in mind this whole Bremen issue is more of a political decision rather than a military one.

MinDef is behind on the MEF III requirements since most of the things that were bought had been for the Army (I wonder why...) leaving the Air Force and Navy still needing new equipment.

 

[Alex898]

wait, the remaining bremen class is just 1 ship, we are going to buy just this one ship ? or we are gonna add another secondhand frigate from another counrtry ? wouldn't it be another nightmare in term of logistics ?

 

[Gundala]

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...onesia-amid-increased-tension-with-china.html

There is some interesting words in there and I quote;

"Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his intention to visit Indonesia to strengthen the cooperation through arms sales despite recent reluctance from the Indonesian side."

I was wondering what make us reluctance to do it? Is it because of this?

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/the-general-holding-back-better-us-indonesia-ties/

"He less popular in the United States, where the former special forces general remains on a blacklist for his alleged involvement in human rights abuses dating back to the 1990’s. That ban is complicating strategic relations at a time when both nations look for partners to counter China’s rising military might in the region."

"The US opposes the Russian deal and while Prabowo is still undecided on going ahead with last October’s announced purchase of two squadrons of US-built F-16 fighters, buying the unfamiliar French aircraft as a compromise would leave the air force with a costly third logistics tail."

I heard/read Pak Prabowo prolly trying to negotiate "replacement" deal to Russia for the SU35 contract if we decided not to go for it. Assuming this is right then perhaps the "trade deal" to buy F16 in favor of allowing us to get SU35 didnt go thru. His active trips to Europe most likely trying to find better solution for TNI AU other than F16. Our counter offer to get F35 instead of F16 seems to be responded rather cold by US. Looking at Pak Prabowo character that F16 purchase can be seen as a "lost" on his part, and loosing is not an option in Kopassus dictionary. So this is going to be interesting show afterall.

For me the 48 Rafale plan he mentioned was intended to be one solution fits all kinda thing. By doing this F16 plan will be out (32 Fghters) and the SU35 cancelation (11 fighter with future plan to have total of 16) would be somehow justify. The downside is the fighter cost/armaments cost/logistic cost. US knows this and they can see the local reaction on the plan to get pre-loved Typhoon as well. So far US diplomacy is still on the strong side and has great leverage to push in, thus making the options Prabowo seek is more limited then it looks.

It just my speculation. Tho I think the ball is in the US side now, the move they made might decide the outcome. Looking at Pak Prabowo character they need to be careful on what they said/do. He has rather high temper and dont react well to threat. As for me I personaly dont like Typhoon if we plan to have it ONLY as stop gap. We bought used F16 as stop gap and now typhoon? Geezzz if we going to reshuffle the deck might as well go with 48 Rafale and get it over with. Beside I kinda like the SPECTRA in Rafale, I think todays combat fighter is come down to EW capability.

 

[polanski]

Indonesia launches two PC-40 class patrol boats: https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/08/02/indonesia-launches-two-pc-40-class-patrol-boats/

 

[san.geuk]

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...onesia-amid-increased-tension-with-china.html

There is some interesting words in there and I quote;

"Defense Secretary Mark Esper expressed his intention to visit Indonesia to strengthen the cooperation through arms sales despite recent reluctance from the Indonesian side."

I was wondering what make us reluctance to do it? Is it because of this?

https://asiatimes.com/2020/03/the-general-holding-back-better-us-indonesia-ties/

"He less popular in the United States, where the former special forces general remains on a blacklist for his alleged involvement in human rights abuses dating back to the 1990’s. That ban is complicating strategic relations at a time when both nations look for partners to counter China’s rising military might in the region."

"The US opposes the Russian deal and while Prabowo is still undecided on going ahead with last October’s announced purchase of two squadrons of US-built F-16 fighters, buying the unfamiliar French aircraft as a compromise would leave the air force with a costly third logistics tail."

I heard/read Pak Prabowo prolly trying to negotiate "replacement" deal to Russia for the SU35 contract if we decided not to go for it. Assuming this is right then perhaps the "trade deal" to buy F16 in favor of allowing us to get SU35 didnt go thru. His active trips to Europe most likely trying to find better solution for TNI AU other than F16. Our counter offer to get F35 instead of F16 seems to be responded rather cold by US. Looking at Pak Prabowo character that F16 purchase can be seen as a "lost" on his part, and loosing is not an option in Kopassus dictionary. So this is going to be interesting show afterall.

For me the 48 Rafale plan he mentioned was intended to be one solution fits all kinda thing. By doing this F16 plan will be out (32 Fghters) and the SU35 cancelation (11 fighter with future plan to have total of 16) would be somehow justify. The downside is the fighter cost/armaments cost/logistic cost. US knows this and they can see the local reaction on the plan to get pre-loved Typhoon as well. So far US diplomacy is still on the strong side and has great leverage to push in, thus making the options Prabowo seek is more limited then it looks.

It just my speculation. Tho I think the ball is in the US side now, the move they made might decide the outcome. Looking at Pak Prabowo character they need to be careful on what they said/do. He has rather high temper and dont react well to threat. As for me I personaly dont like Typhoon if we plan to have it ONLY as stop gap. We bought used F16 as stop gap and now typhoon? Geezzz if we going to reshuffle the deck might as well go with 48 Rafale and get it over with. Beside I kinda like the SPECTRA in Rafale, I think todays combat fighter is come down to EW capability.

in my simple word if we can't access f35 and su35 then we go for rafale, i always think mr prabowo want the best for his soldiers, so this f35 and rafale quite make sense

 

[Nike]

At the comment section of this Malaysian Defence blog article people are discussing the news of the Bremen Class that Indonesia is looking at.

https://www.malaysiandefence.com/walk-like-the-type-26/

With Marhalim Abas (owner of the blog and a reporter of Aviation Week) replying to a comment:

"If you read the story the decision to go with came from the MOD. I have been told by industry sources that the Indonesian Navy prefers new hulls"

Don't know, but Malaysian Nouveau rich attitude still there, especially member whose name Azlan. Looking down on our capability as a whole, as seemed he is knowing our defense deal as a jokes. When compared to their own deals our is still makes sense and far sensible.

 

[san.geuk]

Don't know, but Malaysian Nouveau rich attitude still there, especially member whose name Azlan. Looking down on our capability as a whole, as seemed he is knowing our defense deal as a jokes. When compared to their own deals our is still makes sense and far sensible.

with our bebas aktif policy, and our eratic behaviour in arms procurement it would be hard as same level as ausie or even singapore in terms of connectivity and network centrict warfare, perhaps next 5 years will be on par with them, dont bother their ATM tho, their opinion is like "satu jari menunjuk orang lain, empat jari menunjuk diri sendiri"

 

[nametag]

Of course they do, keep in mind this whole Bremen issue is more of a political decision rather than a military one.

MinDef is behind on the MEF III requirements since most of the things that were bought had been for the Army (I wonder why...) leaving the Air Force and Navy still needing new equipment.

Why? Because they are cheap.. that's why

Considering that Defence satellite, korean subs, kfx, didn't go anywhere because of payment. Cmiiw