Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

When you said "from beginning"...is it 1997 beginning? 2003 beginning? Or Around 2017 beginning?

Original plan is to have 64 F 16 (including pick up of ex Pakistan order), then failed due to Timor cases. In 1997 after Indonesia Air Show 1996 Ginanjar signed contract for Sukhoi Su 27 but failed for payment due to Asia financial crisis in 1998. In 2003 the Flanker came again but payment with counter trade, due to lifting of arm embargo TNI AU asking for more F 16 to completed their original plan...

Original plan in medio late 1980s of modernization drive is Indonesia to have at least four squadron of Multirole fighter (either F 16, Panavia Tornado or Mirage 2000) and backed up with at least six squadron full of light/ground Attack fighter (there is AMX international and Hawk as choices) to completed basic 10 squadron fighter (in which Indonesia paying more for scandalous Hawk deals including license production), the Flanker is adjustment from original plan to sufficiently equipped the Air Force as Skyhawk fleets starting to aging and difficult to maintain).

 

[Indos]

I believe there must be. it just doesnt make sense that MOD out of nowhere just going for pricy jet like typhoon. besides, Dahnil when asked about Sukhoi procurement a while ago, he said that prabowo is looking for jets that affordable for us (maintenance cost, etc), it would not cause any geopolitical problems, and the most important thing it must be included ToT or Offset. thats why I believe this EF Typhoon thing has something to do with what Airbus already offered for DI.

That Typhoon is second hand, not a brand new and we buy it from Austria, not Airbus. So it is unlikely if there is any TOT coming from the deal.

 

[Gen3115]

The only ToT deal I see from buying the secondhand Typhoon is if we upgrade them to Tranche 2 and 3, since that would actually bring money in for Airbus

 

[Alex898]

That Typhoon is second hand, not a brand new and we buy it from Austria, not Airbus. So it is unlikely if there is any TOT coming from the deal.

this is actually what Im trying to say. thanks @Gen3115

The only ToT deal I see from buying the secondhand Typhoon is if we upgrade them to Tranche 2 and 3, since that would actually bring money in for Airbus

 

[Kansel]

TNIAU doesnt want su35 or sukhoi family from beginning..
its will EF 1 ska, i still hope its rafale..
Maybe airbus offering us much better than dassault

How come there's such offer on second hand purchase? Airbus only agreed whether to sale it to us or no nothing more than that. Having a sukhoi sq since beginning is a mistake tho

 

[Gundala]

Original plan is to have 64 F 16 (including pick up of ex Pakistan order), then failed due to Timor cases. In 1997 after Indonesia Air Show 1996 Ginanjar signed contract for Sukhoi Su 27 but failed for payment due to Asia financial crisis in 1998. In 2003 the Flanker came again but payment with counter trade, due to lifting of arm embargo TNI AU asking for more F 16 to completed their original plan...

Original plan in medio late 1980s of modernization drive is Indonesia to have at least four squadron of Multirole fighter (either F 16, Panavia Tornado or Mirage 2000) and backed up with at least six squadron full of light/ground Attack fighter (there is AMX international and Hawk as choices) to completed basic 10 squadron fighter (in which Indonesia paying more for scandalous Hawk deals including license production), the Flanker is adjustment from original plan to sufficiently equipped the Air Force as Skyhawk fleets starting to aging and difficult to maintain).

View attachment 652980 View attachment 652981 View attachment 652982 View attachment 652983

OMG that AMX, and those majalah angkasa old picture is awesome. Talking about blast from the past, when we F16/Tornado/Mirage were competing which one did you prefer backthen? I had my eyes on Mirage 2000

 

[Chestnut]

Honestly, my gripe is that it's just contradictory to what the official government position against buying used equipment. Whatever happened to that or does EADS equipment not count?

 

[umigami]

Replacement of the RAAF Wedgetail Fleet will Begin in 2030
monggo, tertarik?
But you can only get it in mid 2030s. lol

 

[Lasa-X]

Original plan is to have 64 F 16 (including pick up of ex Pakistan order), then failed due to Timor cases. In 1997 after Indonesia Air Show 1996 Ginanjar signed contract for Sukhoi Su 27 but failed for payment due to Asia financial crisis in 1998. In 2003 the Flanker came again but payment with counter trade, due to lifting of arm embargo TNI AU asking for more F 16 to completed their original plan...

Original plan in medio late 1980s of modernization drive is Indonesia to have at least four squadron of Multirole fighter (either F 16, Panavia Tornado or Mirage 2000) and backed up with at least six squadron full of light/ground Attack fighter (there is AMX international and Hawk as choices) to completed basic 10 squadron fighter (in which Indonesia paying more for scandalous Hawk deals including license production), the Flanker is adjustment from original plan to sufficiently equipped the Air Force as Skyhawk fleets starting to aging and difficult to maintain).

View attachment 652980 View attachment 652981 View attachment 652982 View attachment 652983

Nice one!

But the question is still the same? Why (if it is true) AF doesn't want flanker? They could just locked the specs to preferable type.
They love F-16 very much for sure.
But doesn't want flanker? Never heard of it.

Because flanker Su-30KI (then become Su-27SMK/SKM) chosen as "pendamping" F-16 beat the infamous MiG-29 at that era. It was AF that picked that flanker. They could hate flanker and chose Mirage 2000 (another contender). But no, they were stick with flanker. And happened again now. They choose Su-35 and keep it as an option until now as F-5 replacement. Heck, they even sent 3 unit flanker to fill the squadron 14.

They could use F-16 logically because from the same Wing 300, Maospati. But yet they chose unwanted flanker for that mission.

Now after 17 years, AF doesn't want flanker.

 

[Nike]

Nice one!

But the question is still the same? Why (if it is true) AF doesn't want flanker? They could just locked the specs to preferable type.
They love F-16 very much for sure.
But doesn't want flanker? Never heard of it.

Because flanker Su-30KI (then become Su-27SMK/SKM) chosen as "pendamping" F-16 beat the infamous MiG-29 at that era. It was AF that picked that flanker. They could hate flanker and chose Mirage 2000 (another contender). But no, they were stick with flanker. And happened again now. They choose Su-35 and keep it as an option until now as F-5 replacement. Heck, they even sent 3 unit flanker to fill the squadron 14.

They could use F-16 logically because from the same Wing 300, Maospati. But yet they chose unwanted flanker for that mission.

Now after 17 years, AF doesn't want flanker.

You should look at timetable context don't look at current condition, since 1996 TNI AU chose Flanker because they deemed US sanction will affect their readiness and capability at whole. Actually Flanker is the most reasonable choice at the time, as Russian is quite cozy with western power (Yeltsin very liberal) , they need money and possibility for their system to adopt western system network is quite open.

Ministerium prüft Eurofighter-Brief aus Indonesien

• 20. Juli 2020, 14:24 Uhr
• 224× gelesen
•  0
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• Laut einem dem Verteidigungsministerium vorliegenden Brief möchte die indonesische Regierung offenbar Österreichs Eurofighter kaufen.
• Foto: Bundesheer/Markus Zinne
• hochgeladen von Julia Schmidbaur

Autor: Julia Schmidbaur aus Wieden
Wie die Tageszeitungen "Krone" und "Presse" am Wochenende berichtetet haben, soll Indonesien die österreichischen Eurofighter kaufen wollen. Das Verteidigungsministerium prüft derzeit, ob das Angebot echt ist.

ÖSTERREICH. Der direkt an Verteidigungsministerin Klaudia Tanner (ÖVP) adressierte Brief des indonesischen Verteidigungsministers Prabowo Subianto ist mit Jakarta, 10. Juli 2020 datiert und weist ein Amtssigel mit der Aufschrift "Minister of Defence Republic of Idonesia" auf. In dem Schreiben ist vom dem Plan die Rede, Indonesiens Luftwaffe zu modernisieren und dem Wunsch, dafür die 15 Eurofighter Typhoon aus Österreich kaufen zu wollen.

Airbus müsste zu Verkauf zu stimmen
Ein Verkauf der österreichischen Eurofighter an einen anderen Staat ist allerdings nicht so einfach möglich. Österreich könne laut Vertrag nicht direkt verkaufen, ohne Zustimmung von Airbus/EADS sei gar nichts möglich, erklärte der Militärluftfahrtexperte Georg Mader gegenüber der APA. Airbus könnte an einem Deal allerdings durchaus Interesse haben. Das Unternehmen bekäme so einen Fuß in den südostasiatischen Markt. Die laut Kaufvertrag unbedingt nötige Zustimmung könnte man ja mit der Bedingung verknüpfen, dass Österreich die laufenden juristischen Auseinandersetzungen einstelle, so Mader.

Umfrage



Luftraumüberwachung ungewiss
Wie es mit der Luftraumüberwachung in Österreich insgesamt weiter gehen soll, ist derzeit noch offen. Verteidigungsministerin Tanner strebt einen Vertragsausstieg mit Airbus an und hatte zu Beginn ihres Amtsantritts verlauten lassen, Airbus werde sie noch kennen lernen. Die Saab 105-Jets, die aus Altersgründen 2021 außer Betrieb gehen, sollen nicht durch andere Flugzeuge ersetzt werden. Man prüfe aber für den Fall einer Rückabwicklung des Eurofighter-Vertrags eine Überbrückungslösung, so das Ministerium.

https://www.meinbezirk.at/wieden/c-...eft-eurofighter-brief-aus-indonesien_a4156857

 

[Lasa-X]

[QUOTE = "Nike, post: 12555215, member: 145637"] You should look at timetable context don't look at current condition, since 1996 TNI AU chose Flanker because they deemed US sanction will affect their readiness and capability at whole. Actually Flanker is the most reasonable choice at the time, as Russian is quite cozy with western power (Yeltsin very liberal), they need money and possibility for their system to adopt western system network is quite open.

Ministry examines Eurofighter letter from Indonesia

• July 20, 2020, 2:24 p.m.
• Read 224 times
•  0
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• According to a letter submitted to the Ministry of Defense, the Indonesian government apparently wants to buy Austria's Eurofighter.
• Photo: Bundesheer / Markus Zinne
• uploaded by Julia Schmidbaur

Author: Julia Schmidbaur from Wieden
As the daily newspapers "Krone" and "Presse" reported last weekend, Indonesia is said to want to buy the Austrian Eurofighter. The Department of Defense is currently reviewing whether the offer is genuine.

AUSTRIA. The letter from Indonesian Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto, addressed directly to Defense Minister Klaudia Tanner (ÖVP), is dated July 10, 2020 in Jakarta and features an official sigil labeled "Minister of Defense Republic of Idonesia". The letter speaks of the plan to modernize Indonesia's air force and the desire to buy the 15 Eurofighter Typhoon from Austria.

Airbus would have to vote on sale
However, it is not so easy to sell the Austrian Eurofighter to another country. According to the contract, Austria cannot sell directly, and without Airbus / EADS approval, nothing is possible, the military aviation expert Georg Mader told APA. However, Airbus could be interested in a deal. The company would get a foot in the Southeast Asian market. The consent, which is absolutely necessary according to the purchase contract, could be linked to the condition that Austria should end the ongoing legal disputes, said Mader.

survey



Airspace surveillance uncertain
How air traffic surveillance will continue in Austria is still open. Defense Minister Tanner is striving to withdraw from the contract with Airbus and announced at the beginning of her appointment that Airbus would get to know her. The Saab 105 jets, which will retire in 2021 due to age, should not be replaced by other aircraft. However, a bridging solution is being considered in the event of a reversal of the Eurofighter contract, the ministry said.

https://www.meinviertel.at/wieden/c-politik/minister-prueft-eurofighter-brief-aus-indonesien_a4156857 [/ QUOTE]

Ok So I take it as no statement whatsoever that AF doesn't want flanker, yes? Only personal opinion.

Why I discuss about this because I want to make it right, at least for me. Too tired to read of all the hoaxes for more than a decade.

 

[Gundala]

Airbus would have to vote on sale
However, it is not so easy to sell the Austrian Eurofighter to another country. According to the contract, Austria cannot sell directly, and without Airbus / EADS approval, nothing is possible, the military aviation expert Georg Mader told APA. However, Airbus could be interested in a deal. The company would get a foot in the Southeast Asian market. The consent, which is absolutely necessary according to the purchase contract, could be linked to the condition that Austria should end the ongoing legal disputes, said Mader.

Those are google translate from Nike post. This news starting to make sense now, specially with Airbus relation with PT.DI, and can be related to many things. Such as:

https://www.airspace-review.com/201...n-airbus-untuk-hak-produksi-penuh-cn235-ptdi/

And if we decide to get some more brandnew Typhoon the offer from Airbus can be more interesting to see, just like how they offered us before such as:

https://aviatren.com/2015/04/17/ini...ditawarkan-eurofighter-diproduksi-di-bandung/

Interesting indeed...

 

[Fl0gger]

ide typhoon percaya atau tidak datang dari airbus dgn konsultan jerman dgn ide yang sama saat beli leo bila deal ke 15 pswt ini akan di beli dgn harga "reasonable " lalu diupgrade ke menyerupai paket upgrade spanyol dgn melibatkan DI dlm proses upgrade dan atau off set nya dgn harga yang masih terjangkau sekalian MRTT dan paltform AWACS dan bbrp item yang lain termasuk dlm gerbong penawaran airbus well belive it or not info juga dpt dr ngopi bareng rekan tukang Pos. dan boomer nya airbus lol regard

sebelum maung
maung masih prototype masih bisa ada perubahan di sasis dan mesin

 

[Kansel]

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[trishna_amṛta]

ide typhoon percaya atau tidak datang dari airbus dgn konsultan jerman dgn ide yang sama saat beli leo bila deal ke 15 pswt ini akan di beli dgn harga "reasonable " lalu diupgrade ke menyerupai paket upgrade spanyol dgn melibatkan DI dlm proses upgrade dan atau off set nya dgn harga yang masih terjangkau sekalian MRTT dan paltform AWACS dan bbrp item yang lain termasuk dlm gerbong penawaran airbus well belive it or not info juga dpt dr ngopi bareng rekan tukang Pos. dan boomer nya airbus lol regard

Make sense. And with bulk buying we do get better leverage thus better value for money