Indonesia Defence Forum

[Gundala]

the Navy Super Hornet locked onto the Su-22 Fitter at a range of 1.5 miles. The Super Hornet launched an AIM-9X, and the Syrian pilot loosed flares to lure the infrared guided missile away from his fighter. The trick worked, and the American missile missed

Wow 1.5 miles and it missed?

 

[striver44]

https://lancerdefense.com/2019/10/0...s-angkatan-darat-filipina-sedang-berlangsung/
Phils also accelerating their military in missile sector i hope we followed phils too,purchasing truck launched cruise missile like brahmos or hyunmoo for army's

Invest in air launched SOW. Not glcm's

 

[Raduga]

Indonesia delays payment for S. Korea's fighter development project
Defense 11:49 October 07, 2019

SEOUL, Oct. 7 (Yonhap) -- Indonesia is in arrears on its payment obligations for a joint project with South Korea to develop a next-generation fighter jet, citing financial problems, data by the arms procurement agency showed Monday.

Indonesia is a partner for South Korea's so-called KF-X project to develop a homegrown fighter aircraft in an effort to procure combat aircraft for its own air force and boost its aerospace industry. The country agreed to shoulder 20 percent of the development cost of the 8.8 trillion-won (US$7.36 billion) project.

But the Southeast Asian country failed to pay 301 billion won it was supposed to pay as of end-September, according to the data by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA). So far, it has paid 272.2 billion won.

"Following the Indonesian president's request in 2018 for talks on the payment, South Korea set up a pan-government consultative body and has been holding working-level discussions with Jakarta," DAPA said, noting that the two sides have met four times so far this year.

"Despite such a delay in payment, the Indonesian side has continued to send its researchers to South Korea to take part in the development process," Rep. Kim Joong-ro of the minor opposition Bareunmirae Party said during a parliamentary audit into the administration, voicing concern about technology leaks.

As of July, 114 Indonesian engineers were sent to South Korea to work with Korea Aerospace Industries Co. (KAI), the country's sole aircraft manufacturer, to design and make a prototype of the fighter, according to a DAPA official.

Last month, DAPA confirmed that the design for the combat jet met all military requirements, allowing the project to go on to the next phase of constructing a prototype.

The prototype will be ready in the first half of 2021, and the agency is eyeing 2026 for the completion of development, which began in 2016, according to DAPA.

This photo provided by the Defense Acquisition Program Administration shows a concept design

Source : https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20191007003500325?section=national/defense

Again..the story continue...

double post , someone already posted this in previous page

Invest in air launched SOW. Not glcm's

this , air launched AShM have more "surprise" value for the enemy rather than GLCM (take account on Falkland war HMS Sheffield or Gulf War USS Stark incident , that air launched exocet even make the world mightiest navy caught off guard) , but we lack on naval strike fighter , i've never seen our SU-30MK2 launched it's KH-31 , or atleast having a decent MPA like P-8 which can bring a lot of anti ship missile could also do the trick .

 

[umigami]

Should TNI AU find another alternative??

How Did a 30-Year-Old Jet Dodge the Pentagon's Latest Missile?


The AIM-9X Sidewinder failed to bring down an aging attack jet.

By Kyle Mizokami
Jun 26, 2017

ANADOLU AGENCY.GETTY IMAGES
By now you've probably heard that a U.S. fighter shot down a Syrian jet about a week ago. What you might not know is that before the F/A-18E hit its target, it missed–and it missed with the best, newest U.S. missile.

On June 18, just moments after a Syrian Arab Air Force Su-22 attacked Coalition forces, a U.S. Navy F/A-18E Super Hornet strike fighter rolled into a firing position and opened fire. The Super Hornet locked onto the Su-22 "Fitter" and launched the Military's most advanced short-range air-to-air missile, which promptly missed. While the plane was eventually brought down by another, different missile, the question remains: why did the AIM-9X Sidewinder miss?

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The Sukhoi Su-22 is a Cold War-era attack jet designed to strike targets on the ground. A single-seat aircraft, like many aircraft designed in the 1970s it had "swing wings." Cutting edge for its time, this feature allowed the plane to maximize its combat range. Known as "Fitter" to NATO, the Su-22 was designed solely as an air-to-ground aircraft with little to no air-to-air capability. It was produced in large numbers and widely sold abroad. The design is obsolete, and while many air forces still fly the Fitter, it isn't by choice. Here's a video of Su-22 Fitters in Polish Air Force service:





The Super Hornet, meanwhile, is the U.S. Navy's top-of-the-line strike fighter. The Super Hornet is armed with both the infrared guided AIM-9X Sidewinder short range air-to-air missile and the radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM medium-range missile. It's a potent combination of air-to-air missiles, representing the best of American military technology.

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According to CNN, the Navy Super Hornet locked onto the Su-22 Fitter at a range of 1.5 miles. The Super Hornet launched an AIM-9X, and the Syrian pilot loosed flares to lure the infrared guided missile away from his fighter. The trick worked, and the American missile missed. The Super Hornet then launched an AMRAAM missile which, using radar guidance, is unaffected by flares. This time the Fitter went down.

So why did the AIM-9X miss? A contributor to Combat Aircraft magazine proposed a plausible theory: While the 9X is designed to resist the allure of defensive flares, but it may have been too specialized in rejecting American flares. Contributor Angad Singh tweeted a story originally written by aviation authority Bill Sweetman about American tests of Soviet aircraft during the Cold War.

Syrian Arab Air Force Su-22 Fitter.
AMIR ALMOHIBANY.GETTY IMAGES


During the 1980s, U.S. Air Force maintained the top secret 4477th Test & Evaluation Squadron. Flying the Tonopah Test Range in Nevada, the 4477th operated Soviet fighters collected from around the world, often captured by allies, to determine their capabilities. According to the story, the Air Force received a flare dispenser that had been on a Su-25 ground attack jet shot down over Afghanistan. The dispenser was quickly attached to a MiG-21 operated by the 4477th and taken out for testing against the latest American infra-red guided missile, the AIM-9P.

What happened next surprised the Air Force. The AIM-9P Sidewinder, designed to see past flares, was readily diverted by the Soviet flares. The problem was that the -9P was too attuned to the characteristics of American flares it had been tested against and not against the Soviet flares, which according to the squadron commander between 1985 and 1987 were "dirty, and none of them looked the same."

Sailors on the USS George Bush attach an AIM-9X Sidewinder to the wingtip of a Super Hornet strike fighter, February 2011.
U.S. NAVY PHOTO BY PETTY OFFICER 3RD CLASS CHRISTOPHER K. HWANG.


Did something like this happen in the skies over Syria? The AIM-9X, a relatively new missile, should have easily taken down the aging Su-22 Fitter. A lot of air forces, particularly America's NATO allies, rely on the AIM-9X as their short-range missile. The news that it was unable to shoot down a 30-year-old fighter jet will be disturbing to many.

Which 9x block? (We'll get block 2)
Official source just say aim-9 sidewinder so it could be L/M/X.
We don't get a full picture from this story.
For reference, sidewinder L failed to shot down mig25 in a gulf war, but Turkey manage to shot russian jet few years ago with X.

 

[barjo]

Arrowhead 120 or 140
Which one you choose
LogoSkip to content

Design
Arrowhead 140 is a low risk and proven design

Already operating globally in NATO operations, its platform and combat systems are designed for operational support and upgrade, with Team 31 having extensive experience of compliance with both naval and commercial design standards. It is engineered to minimise through- life costs whilst delivering a truly leading-edge frigate that has an established, proven and exportable combat management system. Comprehensive safety and environmental management processes and compliance combined with robust vessel build and delivery practices and support – ensures your mission is in capable hands.

A size and scale that will bring adaptability and an operational cutting-edge to global navies
Arrowhead 140 is larger than other vessels in the General Purpose Frigate market. With 350 tonnes of additional steel, it delivers 2,000 tonnes more displacement which delivers significant advantages:

Its space-rich design provides inherent flexibility and adaptability – future readying global navies for decades to come. It delivers freedom of operational action and political choice through the ease of rapid, low cost capability upgrades.

Increased space provides the opportunity to embark battle staff and operate a Task Group, whilst delivering more comfort for sailors when operating at-reach – making long term global forward deployment achievable and sustainable. A great place for sailors to live and work!

At almost 140m long, and with a 20m beam, this design delivers stability supporting increased performance and safe operations, of the weapons and sensor suite, helicopter and sea-boat operations, in all sea states.

Its inherent size means that it is easier to build, operate, maintain and adapt the ship, reducing through life costs.

And it’s large enough to land a Chinook helicopter on deck.

Proven
Based on an, in-service, NATO standard Iver Huitfeldt baseline design, its wide beam and modularised build approach significantly reduces build time, as established in delivery to the Royal Danish Navy which has three of these platforms in service, plus a further two Absalon Class vessels, based on the same hull form. Utilising this platform design will minimise the non-recurring engineering costs associated with delivery and design risks are lowered as potential design challenges have already been resolved.

Capable
Arrowhead 140 provides excellent survivability, operability and capability with Naval customers able to achieve first class operational performance with exceptional value for money. Our platform offers significant stability and is able to operate in high sea states with excellent radar performance, assured aviation deck handling, dynamic and safe sea-boat capability and enhanced crew comfort for all-weather operations and high sea states.

Adaptable
Able to meet changing operational needs, ranging from anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, electromagnetic manoeuvre warfare and anti-air warfare, Arrowhead 140 is built on proven and commercially available systems and equipment, enabling rapid and affordable capability upgrades.

Habitable
Crew comfort enables fighting efficiency. Arrowhead 140 brings a significant edge to modern naval capability. It has been developed with the objective of assisting in improving the quality of crew performance and comfort by providing excellent working and living environments. For the user, habitability, maintainability and a focus on increased reliability will be a key benefit delivered by Arrowhead 140.

Maintainable
iFrigateTM technology is employed to help you counter any challenge by balancing the need to maximise availability and readiness with the goal of reducing through life support costs.
Arrowhead 140 is designed with a flexible future in mind, ensuring efficient in-service support. Customers benefit from our unparalleled Through Life Support (TLS) expertise which has been pulled through into the design to optimise supportability and maintainability.

Arrowhead 140 is capable of fulfilling and supporting maritime security requirements world-wide.

Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions

Meanwhile
Arrowhead 120

Looks like 20m short and long is for more side bay for rhib and extra container

If so may be the smart s mk2 is common sense for the small one

 

[Nike]

 

[Ruhnama]

I read kompas newspaper, jokowi go to singapore and talking about FIR

(Sorry i not read full the article, ga sempet)

 

[Gundala]

this , air launched AShM have more "surprise" value for the enemy rather than GLCM (take account on Falkland war HMS Sheffield or Gulf War USS Stark incident , that air launched exocet even make the world mightiest navy caught off guard) , but we lack on naval strike fighter , i've never seen our SU-30MK2 launched it's KH-31 , or atleast having a decent MPA like P-8 which can bring a lot of anti ship missile could also do the trick

Well seeing our doctrine is more defensive with pre-emptive capabilities I do believe GLCM in coastal area shoulda have more to offer for us. Having so many islands/Selat/chooke point giving us the advantage to place it in various location and heights. If the system integration have taking place means it wouldnt depend solely on its own radar but can have drones/chopper/MPA/EWA as helper to feed the target position and lock it. The risk of launching it from air is high, specially if the strike fighters dont have additional air/navy support fleet. It would be silly to launch naval air strike without proper air/naval support. So yeah, GLCM is still our best bet until our navy have good green water and decent blue water force capabilities with good AAW.

Arrowhead 120 or 140
Which one you choose
LogoSkip to content

Design
Arrowhead 140 is a low risk and proven design

Already operating globally in NATO operations, its platform and combat systems are designed for operational support and upgrade, with Team 31 having extensive experience of compliance with both naval and commercial design standards. It is engineered to minimise through- life costs whilst delivering a truly leading-edge frigate that has an established, proven and exportable combat management system. Comprehensive safety and environmental management processes and compliance combined with robust vessel build and delivery practices and support – ensures your mission is in capable hands.

A size and scale that will bring adaptability and an operational cutting-edge to global navies
Arrowhead 140 is larger than other vessels in the General Purpose Frigate market. With 350 tonnes of additional steel, it delivers 2,000 tonnes more displacement which delivers significant advantages:

Its space-rich design provides inherent flexibility and adaptability – future readying global navies for decades to come. It delivers freedom of operational action and political choice through the ease of rapid, low cost capability upgrades.

Increased space provides the opportunity to embark battle staff and operate a Task Group, whilst delivering more comfort for sailors when operating at-reach – making long term global forward deployment achievable and sustainable. A great place for sailors to live and work!

At almost 140m long, and with a 20m beam, this design delivers stability supporting increased performance and safe operations, of the weapons and sensor suite, helicopter and sea-boat operations, in all sea states.

Its inherent size means that it is easier to build, operate, maintain and adapt the ship, reducing through life costs.

And it’s large enough to land a Chinook helicopter on deck.

Proven
Based on an, in-service, NATO standard Iver Huitfeldt baseline design, its wide beam and modularised build approach significantly reduces build time, as established in delivery to the Royal Danish Navy which has three of these platforms in service, plus a further two Absalon Class vessels, based on the same hull form. Utilising this platform design will minimise the non-recurring engineering costs associated with delivery and design risks are lowered as potential design challenges have already been resolved.

Capable
Arrowhead 140 provides excellent survivability, operability and capability with Naval customers able to achieve first class operational performance with exceptional value for money. Our platform offers significant stability and is able to operate in high sea states with excellent radar performance, assured aviation deck handling, dynamic and safe sea-boat capability and enhanced crew comfort for all-weather operations and high sea states.

Adaptable
Able to meet changing operational needs, ranging from anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, electromagnetic manoeuvre warfare and anti-air warfare, Arrowhead 140 is built on proven and commercially available systems and equipment, enabling rapid and affordable capability upgrades.

Habitable
Crew comfort enables fighting efficiency. Arrowhead 140 brings a significant edge to modern naval capability. It has been developed with the objective of assisting in improving the quality of crew performance and comfort by providing excellent working and living environments. For the user, habitability, maintainability and a focus on increased reliability will be a key benefit delivered by Arrowhead 140.

Maintainable
iFrigateTM technology is employed to help you counter any challenge by balancing the need to maximise availability and readiness with the goal of reducing through life support costs.
Arrowhead 140 is designed with a flexible future in mind, ensuring efficient in-service support. Customers benefit from our unparalleled Through Life Support (TLS) expertise which has been pulled through into the design to optimise supportability and maintainability.

Arrowhead 140 is capable of fulfilling and supporting maritime security requirements world-wide.

Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions

Meanwhile
Arrowhead 120

Looks like 20m short and long is for more side bay for rhib and extra container

If so may be the smart s mk2 is common sense for the small one

Hufftt....idk man. I am still in favour of 140, any class within 100-130 length is consider "tanggung". Might as well go with heavy numbers of KCR60 and corvette. This 140 to me have more arsenal and can create longer missiles strike range with longer AAW to support task force (acting as task force umberella). Keep in mind that for the next decade or two we will still be focusing on green water navy with minimal blue water capability. So for now having couple of 140 is needed as a stop gap, its unwise if we have more of this 140 monsters but lacking in air support (Fighters).

 

[barjo]

Well seeing our doctrine is more defensive with pre-emptive capabilities I do believe GLCM in coastal area shoulda have more to offer for us. Having so many islands/Selat/chooke point giving us the advantage to place it in various location and heights. If the system integration have taking place means it wouldnt depend solely on its own radar but can have drones/chopper/MPA/EWA as helper to feed the target position and lock it. The risk of launching it from air is high, specially if the strike fighters dont have additional air/navy support fleet. It would be silly to launch naval air strike without proper air/naval support. So yeah, GLCM is still our best bet until our navy have good green water and decent blue water force capabilities with good AAW.


Hufftt....idk man. I am still in favour of 140, any class within 100-130 length is consider "tanggung". Might as well go with heavy numbers of KCR60 and corvette. This 140 to me have more arsenal and can create longer missiles strike range with longer AAW to support task force (acting as task force umberella). Keep in mind that for the next decade or two we will still be focusing on green water navy with minimal blue water capability. So for now having couple of 140 is needed as a stop gap, its unwise if we have more of this 140 monsters but lacking in air support (Fighters).

140m is bit to much for now. I mean to much number of missile to be carried, the both of them can be equiped with single multifunction radar or unimast, but counting to the missile to be carried a single 140 can carry up to 40 plus AA missiles and may be land attacker cruise missile.... may be is a bit to much dont you think bro, the missile in the single ship capacity can take all the warehouse stock

 

[Kucing itu imut]

double post , someone already posted this in previous page


this , air launched AShM have more "surprise" value for the enemy rather than GLCM (take account on Falkland war HMS Sheffield or Gulf War USS Stark incident , that air launched exocet even make the world mightiest navy caught off guard) , but we lack on naval strike fighter , i've never seen our SU-30MK2 launched it's KH-31 , or atleast having a decent MPA like P-8 which can bring a lot of anti ship missile could also do the trick .

Any link for video of that interview?

 

[san.geuk]

What is advantage of arrowhead compare to danish iver anyway? For me the arrowhead looks like sunat version of the real iver, some old post said the navy want to make bigger iver with up to 64vls, cmiiw,
But btw its not to much if we want to switch our regional balance to much bigger scale of geography at least can on par with ausie and china

 

[Raduga]

What is advantage of arrowhead compare to danish iver anyway? For me the arrowhead looks like sunat version of the real iver, some old post said the navy want to make bigger iver with up to 64vls, cmiiw,
But btw its not to much if we want to switch our regional balance to much bigger scale of geography at least can on par with ausie and china

^^^ you'd pretty much sum it up , its the more inferior version of iver , even the UK military enthuasiast also agree , but we'd probably going to see something like this even more in europe arsenal , a big ship that carry a "few" and "little" stick , the brits want's to use this ship same role as german baden württemberg class probably , those gigantic german F125 frigate was over 150m long , but the weapon they carry is on par with modern corvette , they said the role was for "Peackeeping" and "Peacemaking" , the babcock type 31a could ended up the same .

What is advantage of arrowhead compare to danish iver anyway? For me the arrowhead looks like sunat version of the real iver, some old post said the navy want to make bigger iver with up to 64vls, cmiiw,
But btw its not to much if we want to switch our regional balance to much bigger scale of geography at least can on par with ausie and china

there's no one saying navy want's 64vls , if i remember im the one who said about if we put away the mk56 vls to free more space on the deck , the iver could able to carry like over 64 vls with it's stanflex module .

Any link for video of that interview?

https://www.metrotvnews.com/play/b7WCqPLM-anoa-alutsista-indonesia-andalan-dunia

 

[barjo]

^^^ you'd pretty much sum it up , its the more inferior version of iver , even the UK military enthuasiast also agree , but we'd probably going to see something like this even more in europe arsenal , a big ship that carry a "few" and "little" stick , the brits want's to use this ship same role as german baden württemberg class probably , those gigantic german F125 frigate was over 150m long , but the weapon they carry is on par with modern corvette , they said the role was for "Peackeeping" and "Peacemaking" , the babcock type 31a could ended up the same .


there's no one saying navy want's 64vls , if i remember im the one who said about if we put away the mk56 vls to free more space on the deck , the iver could able to carry like over 64 vls with it's stanflex module .


https://www.metrotvnews.com/play/b7WCqPLM-anoa-alutsista-indonesia-andalan-dunia

u smart bro

In the full scale of war we may have it fully equip but flaming others, for "peace" purposes we may scaled it a bit down

Thats why we use stanflex

 

[striver44]

Arrowhead 120 or 140
Which one you choose
LogoSkip to content

Design
Arrowhead 140 is a low risk and proven design

Already operating globally in NATO operations, its platform and combat systems are designed for operational support and upgrade, with Team 31 having extensive experience of compliance with both naval and commercial design standards. It is engineered to minimise through- life costs whilst delivering a truly leading-edge frigate that has an established, proven and exportable combat management system. Comprehensive safety and environmental management processes and compliance combined with robust vessel build and delivery practices and support – ensures your mission is in capable hands.

A size and scale that will bring adaptability and an operational cutting-edge to global navies
Arrowhead 140 is larger than other vessels in the General Purpose Frigate market. With 350 tonnes of additional steel, it delivers 2,000 tonnes more displacement which delivers significant advantages:

Its space-rich design provides inherent flexibility and adaptability – future readying global navies for decades to come. It delivers freedom of operational action and political choice through the ease of rapid, low cost capability upgrades.

Increased space provides the opportunity to embark battle staff and operate a Task Group, whilst delivering more comfort for sailors when operating at-reach – making long term global forward deployment achievable and sustainable. A great place for sailors to live and work!

At almost 140m long, and with a 20m beam, this design delivers stability supporting increased performance and safe operations, of the weapons and sensor suite, helicopter and sea-boat operations, in all sea states.

Its inherent size means that it is easier to build, operate, maintain and adapt the ship, reducing through life costs.

And it’s large enough to land a Chinook helicopter on deck.

Proven
Based on an, in-service, NATO standard Iver Huitfeldt baseline design, its wide beam and modularised build approach significantly reduces build time, as established in delivery to the Royal Danish Navy which has three of these platforms in service, plus a further two Absalon Class vessels, based on the same hull form. Utilising this platform design will minimise the non-recurring engineering costs associated with delivery and design risks are lowered as potential design challenges have already been resolved.

Capable
Arrowhead 140 provides excellent survivability, operability and capability with Naval customers able to achieve first class operational performance with exceptional value for money. Our platform offers significant stability and is able to operate in high sea states with excellent radar performance, assured aviation deck handling, dynamic and safe sea-boat capability and enhanced crew comfort for all-weather operations and high sea states.

Adaptable
Able to meet changing operational needs, ranging from anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface warfare, electromagnetic manoeuvre warfare and anti-air warfare, Arrowhead 140 is built on proven and commercially available systems and equipment, enabling rapid and affordable capability upgrades.

Habitable
Crew comfort enables fighting efficiency. Arrowhead 140 brings a significant edge to modern naval capability. It has been developed with the objective of assisting in improving the quality of crew performance and comfort by providing excellent working and living environments. For the user, habitability, maintainability and a focus on increased reliability will be a key benefit delivered by Arrowhead 140.

Maintainable
iFrigateTM technology is employed to help you counter any challenge by balancing the need to maximise availability and readiness with the goal of reducing through life support costs.
Arrowhead 140 is designed with a flexible future in mind, ensuring efficient in-service support. Customers benefit from our unparalleled Through Life Support (TLS) expertise which has been pulled through into the design to optimise supportability and maintainability.

Arrowhead 140 is capable of fulfilling and supporting maritime security requirements world-wide.

Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions

Meanwhile
Arrowhead 120

Looks like 20m short and long is for more side bay for rhib and extra container

If so may be the smart s mk2 is common sense for the small one

ships this size should atleast have 32 cell VLS (64 would be better),

 

[barjo]

ships this size should atleast have 32 cell VLS (64 would be better),

LOL kaya petasan 17an gan overkill