Indonesia Defence Forum

[Kansel]

^^^ you'd pretty much sum it up , its the more inferior version of iver , even the UK military enthuasiast also agree , but we'd probably going to see something like this even more in europe arsenal , a big ship that carry a "few" and "little" stick , the brits want's to use this ship same role as german baden württemberg class probably , those gigantic german F125 frigate was over 150m long , but the weapon they carry is on par with modern corvette , they said the role was for "Peackeeping" and "Peacemaking" , the babcock type 31a could ended up the same .


there's no one saying navy want's 64vls , if i remember im the one who said about if we put away the mk56 vls to free more space on the deck , the iver could able to carry like over 64 vls with it's stanflex module .


https://www.metrotvnews.com/play/b7WCqPLM-anoa-alutsista-indonesia-andalan-dunia

"Andalan dunia" lmao such media lokal

140m is bit to much for now. I mean to much number of missile to be carried, the both of them can be equiped with single multifunction radar or unimast, but counting to the missile to be carried a single 140 can carry up to 40 plus AA missiles and may be land attacker cruise missile.... may be is a bit to much dont you think bro, the missile in the single ship capacity can take all the warehouse stock

I mean,why not?

 

[striver44]

LOL kaya petasan 17an gan overkill

64 for a 7000 ton ship is never an overkill, 90,92,122,or 128vls is an overkill for such tonnage

 

[barjo]

"Andalan dunia" lmao such media lokal


I mean,why not?

Yeah maybe you right bro... but its alot of money

 

[trishna_amṛta]

I read kompas newspaper, jokowi go to singapore and talking about FIR

(Sorry i not read full the article, ga sempet)

https://www.straitstimes.com/politi...uss-airspace-management-and-military-training

Keypoints ;

Indonesia wants Singapore to respect "Indonesia's sovereignty over its territory, including its territorial waters, archipelagic waters and its airspace", and "to understand Indonesia's strong desire to align the FIR in a timely manner which corresponds to its terri-torial sovereignty".

Singapore, meanwhile, requires Indonesia "to fully respect and recognise Singapore's rights to conduct military training in the South China Sea in accordance with Article 51", and to understand that Singapore's interests include the present and future requirements of Changi Airport.

 

[barjo]

64 for a 7000 ton ship is never an overkill, 90,92,122,or 128vls is an overkill for such tonnage

We can shoot a whole squadron from the sky twice with 60 vls with 4 missile each, may be the insurgent will backoff soon their radar warning reciever allert them, i never though we gonna shoot a big number of missile bro, damn expensive maybe dummy missile or do it with software war game, but in true event exercise... bisa bangkrut kita sebiji mahal banget kaya buang mobil avanza diceburin laut

 

[Raduga]

We can shoot a whole squadron from the sky twice with 60 vls with 4 missile each, may be the insurgent will backoff soon their radar warning reciever allert them, i never though we gonna shoot a big number of missile bro, damn expensive maybe dummy missile or do it with software war game, but in true event exercise... bisa bangkrut kita sebiji mahal banget kaya buang mobil avanza diceburin laut

just having 64 or more VLS installed can have a psychological effect , the enemy will think twice and wondering if the VLS is actually filled or not , they will be cautious .

 

[barjo]

just having 64 or more VLS installed can have a psychological effect , the enemy will think twice and wondering if the VLS is actually filled or not , they will be cautious .

Just for camparison this falkland naval batle with number of AA missile fired both sides bro

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Falklands_War

The most interesting is jet tend to fly lower and lower to attack ship than flying in high altitude

 

[Kucing itu imut]

https://www.straitstimes.com/politi...uss-airspace-management-and-military-training

Keypoints ;

So, what does it mean? Both side still at the opening stage of addressing each other concerns?

most interesting is jet tend to fly lower and lower to attack ship than flying in high altitude

I'm an amateur, but I think that's because if they flight at high altitude the enemy radar will pick them up real quick. Well, just an opinion from an amateur.

Edit: My opinion was based on this https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/2952/can-someone-actually-fly-under-the-radar

 

[trishna_amṛta]

So, what does it mean? Both side still at the opening stage of addressing each other concerns?

Meaning Singapore concern is their access toward South China Sea and the air traffic surrounding their city, and currently they still doesn't see Indonesia gov't could reliably guarantee such (IMO they do have point to be worried)

The most interesting is jet tend to fly lower and lower to attack ship than flying in high altitude

I'm an amateur, but I think that's because if they flight at high altitude the enemy radar will pick them up real quick. Well, just an opinion from an amateur.

By hugging the terrain anything could fly undetected by using Earth curvature as concealment from surface based radar, however flying low mean more fuel get consumed (less efficient) due to the higher air pressure compare to those at higher altitude

 

[Nike]

our Airforce is our weak points, their weakness is more severe compared to the Navy. Only 33 + 16 Gen 4 fighter capable to fight in all weather condition during night or days mission is in operational with availability rates around 60 percent, it means around 30 fighter readily available at any times during emergency situation. Thats a fucking small number compared to the large area they must to defend of around 5 to 6 million square kilometer (its depended on how you including our EEZ or not). Just compared them to the availability rates of our neighbor. Country with economy and yearly budget as big as Indonesia (with around 150 billion US dollar state budget ), 260 million population with Percapita income around 4200 US dollar , only had such measly number of fighter (with most of them is refurbished fighter or starting to aging )to defense our air space is laughable at most.

 

[Kucing itu imut]

our Airforce is our weak points, their weakness is more severe compared to the Navy. Only 33 + 16 Gen 4 fighter capable to fight in all weather condition during night or days mission is in operational with availability rates around 60 percent, it means around 30 fighter readily available at any times during emergency situation. Thats a fucking small number compared to the large area they must to defend of around 5 to 6 million square kilometer (its depended on how you including our EEZ or not). Just compared them to the availability rates of our neighbor. Country with economy and yearly budget as big as Indonesia (with around 150 billion US dollar state budget ), 260 million population with Percapita income around 4200 US dollar , only had such measly number of fighter (with most of them is refurbished fighter or starting to aging )to defense our air space is laughable at most.

Well, as far as I remember the military budget is mostly spent on belanja pegawai (apa sih bahasa inggrisnya?) such as gaji pegawai, tunjangan, pensiunan dll. So the increase in military budget doesn't really mean the raise in military spending for weapons acquisition. I may be wrong though.

The same reason why even though 20% of APBN was for education, our education is still bad, especially the facilities.

 

[barjo]

Meaning Singapore concern is their access toward South China Sea and the air traffic surrounding their city, and currently they still doesn't see Indonesia gov't could reliably guarantee such (IMO they do have point to be worried)





By hugging the terrain anything could fly undetected by using Earth curvature as concealment from surface based radar, however flying low mean more fuel get consumed (less efficient) due to the higher air pressure compare to those at higher altitude

Yes you right bro, it means we should be smart buyer, we dont need anti missile missile, that means we may not see balistic missile as main threat, but maybe sea skiming anti ship or sea skiming capable jet as main threat, that means we also urgently need good CIWS

 

[HellFireIndo]

Well, as far as I remember the military budget is mostly spent on belanja pegawai (apa sih bahasa inggrisnya?) such as gaji pegawai, tunjangan, pensiunan dll. So the increase in military budget doesn't really mean the raise in military spending for weapons acquisition. I may be wrong though.

The same reason why with 20% APBN on education, our education is still bad, especially the facilities.

Jumlah pegawai hampir stagnan tapi anggaran selalu naik kan?

 

[barjo]

our Airforce is our weak points, their weakness is more severe compared to the Navy. Only 33 + 16 Gen 4 fighter capable to fight in all weather condition during night or days mission is in operational with availability rates around 60 percent, it means around 30 fighter readily available at any times during emergency situation. Thats a fucking small number compared to the large area they must to defend of around 5 to 6 million square kilometer (its depended on how you including our EEZ or not). Just compared them to the availability rates of our neighbor. Country with economy and yearly budget as big as Indonesia (with around 150 billion US dollar state budget ), 260 million population with Percapita income around 4200 US dollar , only had such measly number of fighter (with most of them is refurbished fighter or starting to aging )to defense our air space is laughable at most.

In SCS enviroment jet fighter easly reach our space sis from any direction vice versa, and sub will not so effective with shallow waters (only 50m average deep sea floor), any strategy or tech to put down enemy radar and airport its capability we dont have yet, our neighbourgh already have those capability, they can silent natuna and our ship in ease if they wanted to

 

[striver44]

Just for camparison this falkland naval batle with number of AA missile fired both sides bro

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Falklands_War

The most interesting is jet tend to fly lower and lower to attack ship than flying in high altitude

My thoughts. We need something like CAMM or ESSM, the current VL MICA range (20km) is too short for fleet escort duties. Considering our transport LPD's is largerly unarmed (20mm cannons arrnt a thing this day) we need to extend the engagement range as far as possible.