Indonesia Defence Forum

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Lets talk about the corvette again bro sis... Hehehe... At last somebody acknowledge it. I dunno why some military fans boy love sigma design base on look than other, trust me bro it would be surprise when the day patimura class will be replaced by the new one, the concept of block building its what we are studying from the sigma but building more for 9113 is not choice at all, (at least if there are no other choice or political aspect sigma design will be use) we can use and develop another practical ship design. Some said dpn class is better than tom class, that guy actually never knew what kind ship they talk about honestly. With all perspective, the best example concept will be applied, and patimura replacement will be such lovely surprise

DPN 9113 class are previously OPVs, to be upgraded to corvette by adding the torpedo tubes and sonar.

Tom class are light frigates with more missiles than DPN 9113

DPN class front hulls are 'mirip' with our new three units of Bakamla's 80 meter OPV.

Our locally build future corvettes may be like bellow :

The superstructure in the front hull that installed with 57 mm naval gun, behind this 57 mm naval gun could be installed with 2 unit of RBU6000.

 

[barjo]

DPN 9113 class are previously OPVs, to be upgraded to corvette by adding the torpedo tubes and sonar.

Tom class are light frigates with more missiles than DPN 9113

DPN class front hulls are 'mirip' with our new three units of Bakamla's 80 meter OPV.

Our locally build future corvettes may be like bellow :

The superstructure in the front hull that installed with 57 mm naval gun, behind this 57 mm naval gun could be installed with 2 unit of RBU6000.

May be

 

[HellFireIndo]

Lets talk about the corvette again bro sis... Hehehe... At last somebody acknowledge it. I dunno why some military fans boy love sigma design base on look than other, trust me bro it would be surprise when the day patimura class will be replaced by the new one, the concept of block building its what we are studying from the sigma but building more for 9113 is not choice at all, (at least if there are no other choice or political aspect sigma design will be use) we can use and develop another practical ship design. Some said dpn class is better than tom class, that guy actually never knew what kind ship they talk about honestly. With all perspective, the best example concept will be applied, and patimura replacement will be such lovely surprise

DPN 9113 class are previously OPVs, to be upgraded to corvette by adding the torpedo tubes and sonar.

Tom class are light frigates with more missiles than DPN 9113

DPN class front hulls are 'mirip' with our new three units of Bakamla's 80 meter OPV.

Our locally build future corvettes may be like bellow :

The superstructure in the front hull that installed with 57 mm naval gun, behind this 57 mm naval gun could be installed with 2 unit of RBU6000.

We've already invested time and money on Damen-PT PAL cooperation, specifically towards Sigma-class family design. They might not be the "best" nor the cheapest, but then if there's really ToT, then we could benefit by learning about Sigma naval architecture and it's modularity concept, mastering it could be a huge jump in our shipbuilding capability, especially if we could fuse it with experience building Odense' Iver Huitfeldt's modules.

I am impressed of how Sigma's design principle allow many variations to be "easily"made, like these Polish and Mexican Sigma design that was posted by someone here some time ago. Isn't it will be very beneficial if we could master the Sigma design technology? We could better design our own KCR, OPV, Corvettes and even Frigates! Having a capable military is a must, simply buying it could be the simplest way it could be done, but then we could be delaying our defense industry's development by several years by not demanding ToT.

We have a huge Naval and Maritime potential, and it could be key for us to assert our dominance in the future, or more accurately, revive our Maritime tradition, as through a formidable Naval power, our ancestors dominated the region. One way to do it, is first by upgrading our own shipbuilding technology, it's the most basic and most important thing to ensure our capability, these Europeans won't be able to colonize the world if not for their Naval technology.

*Btw, why i'm feeling that PT PAL is not that serious designing that OPV? even Batam shipyards make better design.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Something like DPN-class is enough to replace Pattimura class. Main gun, mistral tetral, torpedo, hull mounted sonar, +variable depth sonar, -Ashm. Small calibre main gun, simple and short range SAM for self defence and keep the cost low with removing Ashm = Sigma ASW version.

TOM with its VLS (sea ceptor 'moga-moga') is when our wallet is thicker.

 

[barjo]

We've already invested time and money on Damen-PT PAL cooperation, specifically towards Sigma-class family design. They might not be the "best" nor the cheapest, but then if there's really ToT, then we could benefit by learning about Sigma naval architecture and it's modularity concept, mastering it could be a huge jump in our shipbuilding capability, especially if we could fuse it with experience building Odense' Iver Huitfeldt's modules.

I am impressed of how Sigma's design principle allow many variations to be "easily"made, like these Polish and Mexican Sigma design that was posted by someone here some time ago. Isn't it will be very beneficial if we could master the Sigma design technology? We could better design our own KCR, OPV, Corvettes and even Frigates! Having a capable military is a must, simply buying it could be the simplest way it could be done, but then we could be delaying our defense industry's development by several years by not demanding ToT.

We have a huge Naval and Maritime potential, and it could be key for us to assert our dominance in the future, or more accurately, revive our Maritime tradition, as through a formidable Naval power, our ancestors dominated the region. One way to do it, is first by upgrading our own shipbuilding technology, it's the most basic and most important thing to ensure our capability, these Europeans won't be able to colonize the world if not for their Naval technology.

*Btw, why i'm feeling that PT PAL is not that serious designing that OPV? even Batam shipyards make better design.

Iya bro senior ahli desainnya banyak yg cabut dulu bro hehehe... Jadi mau nga mau seperti belajar lagi, generasi dulu sempet belajar konsep desain meko jerman, ganti lagi damen. Yg penting sekarang kita harus berani bikin dulu kalau desain nga mlulu contekan belanda jga nga pa2. Karena TOT itu juga jebakan berhadiah, ilmu baru itu kadang beda konsep, yg tau desain pasti paham itu. Beberapa shipbuilder luar itu tehnologinya main di konsep kalau bangun sendiri kadang mereka hanya ambil porsi kecil untuk daya saing mereka di harga. Tapi konsep membangun per blog itu sebenarnya intinya comunality atau universal design. Intinya seperti jerman atau paling gampang motor jepang. Mereka maju di industri motor tahun 70an sampai bikin bangkrut seluruh industri motor di eropa itu gara2 desainnya itu universal mulai dri 4 besar industri mereka semua membuat basic mesin 4 tak segaris (linier) yg sama cma beda cc/kubikasi. Mirip dengan tehnik industri kapal, kubikasi beda tapi desain konsepnya sama. Yg kita perlu itu political will buat nga beli dulu TOT desain, tapi TOT tehnologi communalitinya, mesin, basic produksi industrinya dst. Itu terbukti desain KCR 40 vs KCR 60 bagusan mana atau OPV 80m sama OPV 90 PAL bagusan mana. Tahap industrinya yg perlu dibagun, desain nyusul pun tak apa itu filosofinya habiebie bikin dulu. Jangan mau jadi tukang jahit kerah baju terus tapi nga bisa bikin baju. Back to topic... Kalau masalah senjata semua kapal dibuat menurut concept followed by design. Kalau konsepnya ASW, desain kapal pada umumnya disesuaikan dengan macam senjata yg dibawa (anti kapal selam). RBU 6000 itu spectator lovers bisa ditembakin kaya kembang api murah spectakuler drpd nembakin dummy terpedo (nga kliatan penonton di bawah air). Masalah paltformnya itu model luarnya kaya apa, semuanya sama saja mau desain meko, mosaic, sigma, atau communality designya korea dw/tf dri hyundai ma daewo itu sebetulnya sama. Bukan berarti x shape hull tu lebih bagus dri pada steped hull atau bow hull lbh canggih drpda u design. Sama saja yg penting bkn ego di industrinya harus bikin sigma atau f2000. Asal bisa tidur kamar semalam harga 2 juta ma 200 ribu sama saja. utk konsep industri tinggal di makeup saja hotelnya yg pasti bangun dulu hotelnya

Something like DPN-class is enough to replace Pattimura class. Main gun, mistral tetral, torpedo, hull mounted sonar, +variable depth sonar, -Ashm. Small calibre main gun, simple and short range SAM for self defence and keep the cost low with removing Ashm = Sigma ASW version.

TOM with its VLS (sea ceptor 'moga-moga') is when our wallet is thicker.

Just don't buy another design from VOC boat maker again bro LOL just joke... Crazy expensive
We can stick same sensor to the another simple design communality can be build in all shipyard in our country. In reasonable cost, the hull must be cheaper than the sensor because hull cost can be only 1/3 to the overall price

 

[HellFireIndo]

Something like DPN-class is enough to replace Pattimura class. Main gun, mistral tetral, torpedo, hull mounted sonar, +variable depth sonar, -Ashm. Small calibre main gun, simple and short range SAM for self defence and keep the cost low with removing Ashm = Sigma ASW version.

TOM with its VLS (sea ceptor 'moga-moga') is when our wallet is thicker.

Iya bro senior ahli desainnya banyak yg cabut dulu bro hehehe... Jadi mau nga mau seperti belajar lagi, generasi dulu sempet belajar konsep desain meko jerman, ganti lagi damen. Yg penting sekarang kita harus berani bikin dulu kalau desain nga mlulu contekan belanda jga nga pa2. Karena TOT itu juga jebakan berhadiah, ilmu baru itu kadang beda konsep, yg tau desain pasti paham itu. Beberapa shipbuilder luar itu tehnologinya main di konsep kalau bangun sendiri kadang mereka hanya ambil porsi kecil untuk daya saing mereka di harga. Tapi konsep membangun per blog itu sebenarnya intinya comunality atau universal design. Intinya seperti jerman atau paling gampang motor jepang. Mereka maju di industri motor tahun 70an sampai bikin bangkrut seluruh industri motor di eropa itu gara2 desainnya itu universal mulai dri 4 besar industri mereka semua membuat basic mesin 4 tak segaris (linier) yg sama cma beda cc/kubikasi. Mirip dengan tehnik industri kapal, kubikasi beda tapi desain konsepnya sama. Yg kita perlu itu political will buat nga beli dulu TOT desain, tapi TOT tehnologi communalitinya, mesin, basic produksi industrinya dst. Itu terbukti desain KCR 40 vs KCR 60 bagusan mana atau OPV 80m sama OPV 90 PAL bagusan mana. Tahap industrinya yg perlu dibagun, desain nyusul pun tak apa itu filosofinya habiebie bikin dulu. Jangan mau jadi tukang jahit kerah baju terus tapi nga bisa bikin baju. Back to topic... Kalau masalah senjata semua kapal dibuat menurut concept followed by design. Kalau konsepnya ASW, desain kapal pada umumnya disesuaikan dengan macam senjata yg dibawa (anti kapal selam). RBU 6000 itu spectator lovers bisa ditembakin kaya kembang api murah spectakuler drpd nembakin dummy terpedo (nga kliatan penonton di bawah air). Masalah paltformnya itu model luarnya kaya apa, semuanya sama saja mau desain meko, mosaic, sigma, atau communality designya korea dw/tf dri hyundai ma daewo itu sebetulnya sama. Bukan berarti x shape hull tu lebih bagus dri pada steped hull atau bow hull lbh canggih drpda u design. Sama saja yg penting bkn ego di industrinya harus bikin sigma atau f2000. Asal bisa tidur kamar semalam harga 2 juta ma 200 ribu sama saja. utk konsep industri tinggal di makeup saja hotelnya yg pasti bangun dulu hotelnya


Just don't buy another design from VOC boat maker again bro LOL just joke... Crazy expensive
We can stick same sensor to the another simple design communality can be build in all shipyard in our country. In reasonable cost, the hull must be cheaper than the sensor because hull cost can be only 1/3 to the overall price

DPN with more lethal torpedo, ASW missiles, dedicated ASW heli, and Sigma MMB stern converted for ASW use, be it naval mine capable, TASS, whatever, as long as it could fulfill the role as ASW-capable corvette (dozens of them), there's so much to replace, too little time, too expensive choices. If there's something i am hoping about future design choice, it's allocated space for VLS (FFBNW).

I remembered that several years ago, people talked about "MEKO", "Sigma", i don't know shit about them cause i was young and ignorant back then, but apparently MEKO is an alternative to Sigma back then? They are not a thing today tho. The cost for VOC boats is outrageous in the long run (at least not as expensive as Frenchie boats), but then we don't have much option left, we can't keep this habit of leaving things unfinished, if not then we're not going to get "there" soon. No matter how, the success of the LPD design must be replicated for the corvette and frigate sector, and for submarine, it seems that we're doing quite good, it is confirmed that 4th and 5th hull are to be partially built here, and the 6th hull are to be 100% made here. It would be kinda ironic that we're moving forward in the Submarine sector, but the surface combatant sector remains complicated.

We have the basics and the production capacity, what left is the technology. If we could make the boats here, it would much cheaper and we could build more for less cost, as our GDP PPP is three times higher than it's USD nominal value. Also, we can have more liberty and flexibility if we are to build ships on our own, no more complicated contracts, no more downgraded shit, easier to order, and we could save up a lot of foreign currency reserves and even obtain some by exporting ships.

 

[barjo]

DPN with more lethal torpedo, ASW missiles, dedicated ASW heli, and Sigma MMB stern converted for ASW use, be it naval mine capable, TASS, whatever, as long as it could fulfill the role as ASW-capable corvette (dozens of them), there's so much to replace, too little time, too expensive choices. If there's something i am hoping about future design choice, it's allocated space for VLS (FFBNW).

I remembered that several years ago, people talked about "MEKO", "Sigma", i don't know shit about them cause i was young and ignorant back then, but apparently MEKO is an alternative to Sigma back then? They are not a thing today tho. The cost for VOC boats is outrageous in the long run (at least not as expensive as Frenchie boats), but then we don't have much option left, we can't keep this habit of leaving things unfinished, if not then we're not going to get "there" soon. No matter how, the success of the LPD design must be replicated for the corvette and frigate sector, and for submarine, it seems that we're doing quite good, it is confirmed that 4th and 5th hull are to be partially built here, and the 6th hull are to be 100% made here. It would be kinda ironic that we're moving forward in the Submarine sector, but the surface combatant sector remains complicated.

We have the basics and the production capacity, what left is the technology. If we could make the boats here, it would much cheaper and we could build more for less cost, as our GDP PPP is three times higher than it's USD nominal value. Also, we can have more liberty and flexibility if we are to build ships on our own, no more complicated contracts, no more downgraded shit, easier to order, and we could save up a lot of foreign currency reserves and even obtain some by exporting ships.

Adopted a new design is risk like take new medicine before the old medicine for the same illnes... I much refer to 9113 design not the 10415, we already make bigger and better and go with that. But for the corvette design less than 2000ton or less than 100m, we need to simplify the design, make it 1 subclass only not buy all the groceries avaiable. Jerman 3 main shipyard build the same class meko refer to K130. We have some gov owned shipyard in jakarta, makasar, palembang, and riau. Beside the surabaya, If we stick with sigma design all other shipyard could not share the work of ship, yes it probably can be arrange to share the block work but it will need some times and extra money. What we need is like teraflux or naval central design, not relly on foreign or some private design (I'm so sorry north sea boat i dont mean it) that can build standardise corvette class that can launch a missile (ASuW) torpedo or may be RBU 6000 for (ASW) and shorad or if we lucky VLS for AAW ffbnw, and all localy, like we already do with the KCR 40 and all 40m boat variant, and first of all choose 1 combat system and sensor from one vendor, damn with the seller let them fight for the bone. If we wanna build a fleet so this corvette program like the old kornas program is the starting point, throw away all the sweetness of stealth, modern design etc etc what is the usefull of good looking ship or mothership if still can be sink finaly. Cheap and mass product is quality by its own like stalin said

 

[Mr. Woof Woof]

Iya bro senior ahli desainnya banyak yg cabut dulu bro hehehe... Jadi mau nga mau seperti belajar lagi, generasi dulu sempet belajar konsep desain meko jerman, ganti lagi damen. Yg penting sekarang kita harus berani bikin dulu kalau desain nga mlulu contekan belanda jga nga pa2. Karena TOT itu juga jebakan berhadiah, ilmu baru itu kadang beda konsep, yg tau desain pasti paham itu. Beberapa shipbuilder luar itu tehnologinya main di konsep kalau bangun sendiri kadang mereka hanya ambil porsi kecil untuk daya saing mereka di harga. Tapi konsep membangun per blog itu sebenarnya intinya comunality atau universal design. Intinya seperti jerman atau paling gampang motor jepang. Mereka maju di industri motor tahun 70an sampai bikin bangkrut seluruh industri motor di eropa itu gara2 desainnya itu universal mulai dri 4 besar industri mereka semua membuat basic mesin 4 tak segaris (linier) yg sama cma beda cc/kubikasi. Mirip dengan tehnik industri kapal, kubikasi beda tapi desain konsepnya sama. Yg kita perlu itu political will buat nga beli dulu TOT desain, tapi TOT tehnologi communalitinya, mesin, basic produksi industrinya dst. Itu terbukti desain KCR 40 vs KCR 60 bagusan mana atau OPV 80m sama OPV 90 PAL bagusan mana. Tahap industrinya yg perlu dibagun, desain nyusul pun tak apa itu filosofinya habiebie bikin dulu. Jangan mau jadi tukang jahit kerah baju terus tapi nga bisa bikin baju. Back to topic... Kalau masalah senjata semua kapal dibuat menurut concept followed by design. Kalau konsepnya ASW, desain kapal pada umumnya disesuaikan dengan macam senjata yg dibawa (anti kapal selam). RBU 6000 itu spectator lovers bisa ditembakin kaya kembang api murah spectakuler drpd nembakin dummy terpedo (nga kliatan penonton di bawah air). Masalah paltformnya itu model luarnya kaya apa, semuanya sama saja mau desain meko, mosaic, sigma, atau communality designya korea dw/tf dri hyundai ma daewo itu sebetulnya sama. Bukan berarti x shape hull tu lebih bagus dri pada steped hull atau bow hull lbh canggih drpda u design. Sama saja yg penting bkn ego di industrinya harus bikin sigma atau f2000. Asal bisa tidur kamar semalam harga 2 juta ma 200 ribu sama saja. utk konsep industri tinggal di makeup saja hotelnya yg pasti bangun dulu hotelnya


Just don't buy another design from VOC boat maker again bro LOL just joke... Crazy expensive
We can stick same sensor to the another simple design communality can be build in all shipyard in our country. In reasonable cost, the hull must be cheaper than the sensor because hull cost can be only 1/3 to the overall price

Kalo bikin kapal sepanjang 95 meter yang sudah bisa berlayar, costnya kira2 usd 68-70 million per unit. Kalo ditambah sensor dan senjata jadi total usd 205-210 million per unit.

Begitu juga dengan kapal segede iver yang displacementnya 6500 ton, jika dibuat di sini maka butuh dana sebesar usd 156 juta per unit untuk kapal yang siap berlayar.

Hitungannya begini :

1 kapal patroli PC 40 punya displacement kira2 250 ton.

Kapal segede iver 6500 ton, dibagi 250 ton.

6500 / 250 = 26

1 PC 40 kira2 senilai usd 6 juta.

26 x 6 = 156

Jadi 1 kapal segede iver hullnya senilai usd 156 juta.

Tetapi jika ditambah sensor dan senjata jadi total usd 468 juta per unit.

Maka berapa budgetnya, apa mau dibikin kapal siap layar dulu , atau mau langsung dipasang sensor dan senjata ? Kalau budget usd 550 juta per unit maka senjata yang dipasang lebih dari cukup.

Namun jika budgetnya usd 780 juta untuk 2 unit maka yang didapat adalah kapal lengkap sensor, meriam utama, meriam sekunder dan tabung torpedo serta vls, tapi kosong tanpa rudal dan torpedo alias FFBNW.

Tetapi kalo budgetnya usd 780 juta dapat kapal yang bisa berlayar saja tanpa sensor dan senjata maka usd 780 juta itu cukup untuk beli 780 / 156 = 5 unit!

 

[barjo]

Kalo bikin kapal sepanjang 95 meter yang sudah bisa berlayar, costnya kira2 usd 68-70 million per unit. Kalo ditambah sensor dan senjata jadi total usd 205-210 million per unit.

Begitu juga dengan kapal segede iver yang displacementnya 6500 ton, jika dibuat di sini maka butuh dana sebesar usd 156 juta per unit untuk kapal yang siap berlayar.

Hitungannya begini :

1 kapal patroli PC 40 punya displacement kira2 250 ton.

Kapal segede iver 6500 ton, dibagi 250 ton.

6500 / 250 = 26

1 PC 40 kira2 senilai usd 6 juta.

26 x 6 = 156

Jadi 1 kapal segede iver hullnya senilai usd 156 juta.

Tetapi jika ditambah sensor dan senjata jadi total usd 468 juta per unit.

Maka berapa budgetnya, apa mau dibikin kapal siap layar dulu , atau mau langsung dipasang sensor dan senjata ? Kalau budget usd 550 juta per unit maka senjata yang dipasang lebih dari cukup.

Namun jika budgetnya usd 780 juta untuk 2 unit maka yang didapat adalah kapal lengkap sensor, meriam utama, meriam sekunder dan tabung torpedo serta vls, tapi kosong tanpa rudal dan torpedo alias FFBNW.

Tetapi kalo budgetnya usd 780 juta dapat kapal yang bisa berlayar saja tanpa sensor dan senjata maka usd 780 juta itu cukup untuk beli 780 / 156 = 5 unit!

I dont know how you got this figure bro... But is fun right...

But its not an imagenary one ok.... I work for almost 7 years in almost every day I must facing... Another calculation of such number, auditor etc etc... Event as crazy as someone want to put cows on hercules, i belive that terms a holly cows really comes are LOL... Btw our shipyard capability is limited due the facility of the dock, not much of our shipyard able to handle more than 2000 ton in their dry dock.. So yes... Why i just say kornas, or national corvette program, limited on 1500-1700 ton ship, thats what the most productive line in our shipyard. What i was said its rather ambitious than reality, so please correct me if I'm wrong

But i love your joke cheers bro

 

[Raduga]

Iya bro senior ahli desainnya banyak yg cabut dulu bro hehehe... Jadi mau nga mau seperti belajar lagi, generasi dulu sempet belajar konsep desain meko jerman, ganti lagi damen. Yg penting sekarang kita harus berani bikin dulu kalau desain nga mlulu contekan belanda jga nga pa2. Karena TOT itu juga jebakan berhadiah, ilmu baru itu kadang beda konsep, yg tau desain pasti paham itu. Beberapa shipbuilder luar itu tehnologinya main di konsep kalau bangun sendiri kadang mereka hanya ambil porsi kecil untuk daya saing mereka di harga. Tapi konsep membangun per blog itu sebenarnya intinya comunality atau universal design. Intinya seperti jerman atau paling gampang motor jepang. Mereka maju di industri motor tahun 70an sampai bikin bangkrut seluruh industri motor di eropa itu gara2 desainnya itu universal mulai dri 4 besar industri mereka semua membuat basic mesin 4 tak segaris (linier) yg sama cma beda cc/kubikasi. Mirip dengan tehnik industri kapal, kubikasi beda tapi desain konsepnya sama. Yg kita perlu itu political will buat nga beli dulu TOT desain, tapi TOT tehnologi communalitinya, mesin, basic produksi industrinya dst. Itu terbukti desain KCR 40 vs KCR 60 bagusan mana atau OPV 80m sama OPV 90 PAL bagusan mana. Tahap industrinya yg perlu dibagun, desain nyusul pun tak apa itu filosofinya habiebie bikin dulu. Jangan mau jadi tukang jahit kerah baju terus tapi nga bisa bikin baju. Back to topic... Kalau masalah senjata semua kapal dibuat menurut concept followed by design. Kalau konsepnya ASW, desain kapal pada umumnya disesuaikan dengan macam senjata yg dibawa (anti kapal selam). RBU 6000 itu spectator lovers bisa ditembakin kaya kembang api murah spectakuler drpd nembakin dummy terpedo (nga kliatan penonton di bawah air). Masalah paltformnya itu model luarnya kaya apa, semuanya sama saja mau desain meko, mosaic, sigma, atau communality designya korea dw/tf dri hyundai ma daewo itu sebetulnya sama. Bukan berarti x shape hull tu lebih bagus dri pada steped hull atau bow hull lbh canggih drpda u design. Sama saja yg penting bkn ego di industrinya harus bikin sigma atau f2000. Asal bisa tidur kamar semalam harga 2 juta ma 200 ribu sama saja. utk konsep industri tinggal di makeup saja hotelnya yg pasti bangun dulu hotelnya


Just don't buy another design from VOC boat maker again bro LOL just joke... Crazy expensive
We can stick same sensor to the another simple design communality can be build in all shipyard in our country. In reasonable cost, the hull must be cheaper than the sensor because hull cost can be only 1/3 to the overall price

What's your thought on KN Pulau Marore and KN tanjung datu from pt palindo marine ? do you think both of that ship could be our base platform for "kornas" program ?

 

[barjo]

What's your thought on KN Pulau Marore and KN tanjung datu from pt palindo marine ? do you think both of that ship could be our base platform for "kornas" program ?

Offcourse... But someone will kick my *** when i said this LOL. The main thing is the line of production or the shipyard capability, some design differ with others in matter of fact just the way they design the ship for what purpose. OPV is general design, some not use extra deck below the helipad some use it, depends what kind activity you want to do in stern, fast release RHIB or some fishing net or TASS, if dont they used foward section area for some extra room, like the amazonas or thai OPV from BAE or some irish OPV babock made. Thats why china corvette look high in the stern than the british made more low in stern, or sigma big and high in the stern but f2000 not. Smoke stack port and starboard or in the midle or close to the waterline like the visby design in the stern and latest meko can be done, is creativity there are no limited on design. If we put smoke stack in the midle we can have a better port and starboard space, if we put it in the port and starboard more space in the midle. And why the mast look so diferent in can be found much information in the net why aegis made by US dont use big mast. Cost the dont need mast to put the radar. The parchim is lack on helipad so the design is buble in the font section. Jadi kalau tetap masih mempertahankan desain awal parchim bagian belakang (stern) tinggal ditambahi helideck, kalau nurut pakem sigma ruangnya yg dibelakang bisa lebar, KN tanjung datu kliatannya pakai pakem sigma, cuma OPV kelemahanya banyak ruang kurang compact. Desainer kapal pasti pakemnya beda tapi prinsipnya sama mengatur ruang kapal. Kalau yg mau diganti kapal ukuran 90m (parchim 70an meter) kapal ukuran segitu kegedean. Sayang kalau cuma buat U-jag
Cmiiw

 

[NEKONEKO]

DPN with more lethal torpedo, ASW missiles

No. I think light weight torpedoes are sufficient enough, it have adequate range, warhead and have max depth more than subs. Better to have improved sensor that able to detect submarine that dive deep and far away also able to detect submarine that try to use water layers (thermocline). Active and passive defense is recommended. And also speed, need high top speed for the hunt. ASW missile or Asroc (your favourite RBU6000) is not a must. Anti-submarine warfare is about cat and mouse game, as long as you able to detect a submarine it's pretty much game over for them.

dedicated ASW heli

Yeah, DPN with a hangar but without the need to make the ship longer if possible, Moroccan sigma have hangar for helos and the ship is a few meter longer.

allocated space for VLS

No, I prefer pure and cheaper ASW corvette, even Mistral SAM is enough and no need for vls. For Multirole combat vessel let the new light frigate or future frigate bear that responsibility.

there's so much to replace, too little time, too expensive choices

Well.......................................

 

[HellFireIndo]

No. I think light weight torpedoes are sufficient enough, it have adequate range, warhead and have max depth more than subs. Better to have improved sensor that able to detect submarine that dive deep and far away also able to detect submarine that try to use water layers (thermocline). Active and passive defense is recommended. And also speed, need high top speed for the hunt. ASW missile or Asroc (your favourite RBU6000) is not a must. Anti-submarine warfare is about cat and mouse game, as long as you able to detect a submarine it's pretty much game over for them.

Yeah, DPN with a hangar but without the need to make the ship longer if possible, Moroccan sigma have hangar for helos and the ship is a few meter longer.

No, I prefer pure and cheaper ASW corvette, even Mistral SAM is enough and no need for vls. For Multirole combat vessel let the light frigate or future frigate bear that responsibility.

Well.......................................

RBU 6000 is not really my favorite thing if we are talking about ASW, it's something else entirely. ASW role is indeed better suited for corvettes and light frigates, so i'm hoping at least the future replacement for Pattimura-class could be fitted with better ASW suite, TASS (CAPTAS 1?) and of course ASW heli with dipping sonar, better arms up those Panthers. Btw is it possible to fit surface combatants with torpedo countermeasure? Actually, an ASW MPA could be a tremendous boost to our ASW capability, especially in long-range hunting scenario, where immediate response from the surface fleet is unavailable, of course i meant something more than these duckface CN-235 MPA, you know it, and some information sources confirms the military's interest with that aircraft, but then there's a fight of whether the Air Force or the Navy get to operate it.

 

[barjo]

Guys....

Thats why i like to discuss sigma is our step stone in shipbuilding not sigma is our main stone in shipbuilding...

RBU 6000 is not really my favorite thing if we are talking about ASW, it's something else entirely. ASW role is indeed better suited for corvettes and light frigates, so i'm hoping at least the future replacement for Pattimura-class could be fitted with better ASW suite, TASS (CAPTAS 1?) and of course ASW heli with dipping sonar, better arms up those Panthers. Btw is it possible to fit surface combatants with torpedo countermeasure? Actually, an ASW MPA could be a tremendous boost to our ASW capability, especially in long-range hunting scenario, where immediate response from the surface fleet is unavailable, of course i meant something more than these duckface CN-235 MPA, you know it, and some information sources confirms the military's interest with that aircraft, but then there's a fight of whether the Air Force or the Navy get to operate it.

Sub torpedo coutermeasure can be atlas loki and french lacroix

 

[NEKONEKO]

Btw is it possible to fit surface combatants with torpedo countermeasure

Passive

Yes.

Active

Soon.
Paket-E/NK, Tork, Seaspider, Rafael ATDS, TRAPR DCL