Indonesia Defence Forum

[Nike]

Honestly, we're better off lobbying for long-term acquisition for more Apaches or even possibly Chinooks rather than the A-10, as even US' high ranking officers hated them, they are so against CAS subsonic aircraft like the Warthog as they thought it is "obsolete" and very vulnerable to enemy's AA assets. The Warthog is planned to be replaced by F-35 (almost all older fighters/CAS in US inventory is planned will be replaced by F-35), but there's many debates regarding the decision and some even pushed to extend their service due to the A-10's popularity among ground troops.

I think the like of A-10 is better to stay above the ground and focus on hard ground targets pounding as a dedicated anti-vehicle/fortification CAS aircraft (presumably stationed at Sumatra or Batam), they have kinda limited range and flight characteristics not to mention they are subsonic and so far have no torpedo or AShM loadout, unsuitable for maritime operation, even CN-235 gunship or MPA with hardpoints for weapons is better suited for the job.

Maritime strike the best out there is Super hornet actually, especially the latest itterian they got more robust airframe (intended for harsh carrier operational) and longer range along with increased load out and much cheaper flying hours cost and life cycle compared to other double engine fighters, I prefer them over F 15 ex or SU 35 . Got them and pairing them with F 16 block 72+ viper along with growler variant with support of hawkeye or wedge tail you will get formidable Air Force fleets.

I still lamented the decision to keep the Flanker fleets and trying to adding them as they will became liability to our Air Force growth in near future as we are currently in transition to became network centric forces.

F 35, got issue as they will became harder for future upgrade program. As they all in built /close circle built from beginning and got issue for possible growth or upgrade. It is relatively good fighter but, in my opinion is better if we just fixed the ambition to build proper C4ISR capability by utilizing mature and much proven platforms with possible growth, ironically the teen series the US trying to discard and replace them with F35 are much more flexible than what they thought in the start of JSF program. For future fighter just keep with KFX/IFX, for lobby with Lockmart and US government , F16V deal is will be sufficient bargaining along with possible deals for AWACS, Tanker, large MPA/ASW.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Maritime strike the best out there is Super hornet actually, especially the latest itterian they got more robust airframe (intended for harsh carrier operational) and longer range along with increased load out and much cheaper flying hours cost and life cycle compared to other double engine fighters, I prefer them over F 15 ex or SU 35 . Got them and pairing them with F 16 block 72+ viper along with growler variant with support of hawkeye or wedge tail you will get formidable Air Force fleets.

I still lamented the decision to keep the Flanker fleets and trying to adding them as they will became liability to our Air Force growth in near future as we are currently in transition to became network centric forces.

Although i really liked F-15 X, it did made more sense to have Super Hornets as a part of our fleets, as a Naval Fighter, they are suitable for the Maritime/Archipelagic characteristics of Indonesian geography and they have many variants/loadout for various roles including the Growlers.

Flankers' problems with maintenance and operating cost is a well-known fact that only childish Russian fanboys will deny, not even India will deny this, less-known is how the Flankers have difficulties integrating with the rest of Air Force's (western aircraft) fleets let alone the whole Military. I am so torn apart about this, in one side embargo is a real deal and hit hard unexpectedly and in the other hand, keeping the Flankers is a real pain in the ***.

 

[Nike]

Although i really liked F-15 X, it did made more sense to have Super Hornets as a part of our fleets, as a Naval Fighter, they are suitable for the Maritime/Archipelagic characteristics of Indonesian geography and they have many variants/loadout for various roles including the Growlers.

Flankers' problems with maintenance and operating cost is a well-known fact that only childish Russian fanboys will deny, not even India will deny this, less-known is how the Flankers have difficulties integrating with the rest of Air Force's (western aircraft) fleets let alone the whole Military. I am so torn apart about this, in one side embargo is a real deal and hit hard unexpectedly and in the other hand, keeping the Flankers is a real pain in the ***.

If Tomcat still alive, kicking, produced and being upgraded with latest standard I would prefer them actually. The most handsome and fiercest fighter from all teen generation actually (including Russian and European fighter from the same generation like Mig 29, Su27/30, Tornado, Thypoon, Mirage 2000 and so on)

 

[HellFireIndo]

If Tomcat still alive, kicking, produced and being upgraded with latest standard I would prefer them actually. The most handsome and fiercest fighter from all teen generation actually (including Russian and European fighter from the same generation like Mig 29, Su27/30, Tornado, Thypoon, Mirage 2000 and so on)

I think anything of the time before the so-called "4.5th gen" is pretty much out of the option and every choice we currently or will make, is aimed to propel us into the so-called "5th gen" or even beyond. Besides, Tomcats are already out of business with only some countries like Iran still retaining the airframe, even the US itself already said goodbye to the plane.

3rd and 4th gen are like the golden era where beautiful and iconic fighters came into being, but their era is nearing it's end, fading away, and they can only stay if they implemented newer 5th gen techs into their airframe, even then, only some could survive into the next 2 or 3 decades to come, and will eventually be replaced by latest gen fighters.

 

[Nike]

These old subpar fighters will be all retired soon, and will give the chance for the Air Force to rebuild the fleets with better stuffs than Orba's retarded purchases, where only the Broncos and F-16 turns out to be decent, the rest are shit or unexpectedly pimped up by the Israeli. So let's hope and discuss more about how wllill the Air Force's future will be like, i presume it will be 2-3 squadron of Flankers, 3 squadrons of IFX, 4-6 squadrons of F-16s, 2-3 T-50 (either upgrades or new acqusitions), and others are open for more discussion.

For near future 2020-2028, from what I know, thought it just gossip, so don't take it seriously

Retarded Hawk, still decent for low cost patroller and ground attack roles. Just collect all the remaining fighter and put them into one big squadron, I prefer them to be put in Riau, as Riau is close with Singapore and Malaysia, TNI can use the Hawks for joint training platforms with them regularly and to patrol Malacca strait. No need for high and efficient fighter for that kind of secondary roles.

For Flanker, is enough to get two squadron of them. Iswahyudi AFB and Hasanudin. But at least made them into big squadron formation of 24 to 32 fighter per squadron to increase the efficiency of numbers and they kinda act as our trumps. But the possibility is slim though by then it will be just 28-32 flanker we will have as the earliest batch most likely will be phased out.

For F 16, five squadrons (including the legacy and would be dealt F16V) in more strategic location is preferred, so far I only get hints they will be placed in El tary, Supadio, and between Biak or new place in Papua (but Papua formation is still in talk and yet to be formalized, the almost got nod is the ones in Supadio and El Tary ), the rest is existing squadron in Riau and East Java.

Don't know about T50, there is talk but concern for further LIFT squadron is not urgent as tni AU prefer to train their pilots with the would be platforms directly after finishing advent flying training course in our case after passing with KT 1 Wong bee they will be passed to LIFT training squadron for a while then directed into their respective would be fighter squadron for further training, just like how Singaporeans doing with their training regime

For KFX, likely for the possibility of more squadron as by 2027 onwards we don't know how much budget and resources military will got.

Golden squadron will get their AEW aircraft by then, and there's will be Tanker for air refueling. New C130 j squadron , hopefully will be formed in Jakarta meanwhile all H will be placed in Hasanudin. Special CN 295 will get their friends, and it will be armed variant.

In Papua, new squadron for CN 212 is most likely and they will be mixed with CN 235. Along with new squadron for Helicopters unit

 

[HellFireIndo]

For near future 2020-2028, from what I know, thought it just gossip, so don't take it seriously

Retarded Hawk, still decent for low cost patroller and ground attack roles. Just collect all the remaining fighter and put them into one big squadron, I prefer them to be put in Riau, as Riau is close with Singapore and Malaysia, TNI can use the Hawks for joint training platforms with them regularly and to patrol Malacca strait. No need for high and efficient fighter for that kind of secondary roles.

For Flanker, is enough to get two squadron of them. Iswahyudi AFB and Hasanudin. But at least made them into big squadron formation of 24 to 32 fighter per squadron to increase the efficiency of numbers and they kinda act as our trumps. But the possibility is slim though by then it will be just 28-32 flanker we will have as the earliest batch most likely will be phased out.

For F 16, five squadrons (including the legacy and would be dealt F16V) in more strategic location is preferred, so far I only get hints they will be placed in El tary, Supadio, and between Biak or new place in Papua (but Papua formation is still in talk and yet to be formalized, the almost got nod is the ones in Supadio and El Tary ), the rest is existing squadron in Riau and East Java.

Don't know about T50, there is talk but concern for further LIFT squadron is not urgent as tni AU prefer to train their pilots with the would be platforms directly after finishing advent flying training course in our case after passing with KT 1 Wong bee they will be passed to LIFT training squadron for a while then directed into their respective would be fighter squadron for further training, just like how Singaporeans doing with their training regime

For KFX, likely for the possibility of more squadron as by 2027 onwards we don't know how much budget and resources military will got.

Golden squadron will get their AEW aircraft by then, and there's will be Tanker for air refueling. New C130 j squadron , hopefully will be formed in Jakarta meanwhile all H will be placed in Hasanudin. Special CN 295 will get their friends, and it will be armed variant.

In Papua, new squadron for CN 212 is most likely and they will be mixed with CN 235. Along with new squadron for Helicopters unit

Pardon me for the poorly placed paragraph, my computer lagged and i accidentally posted it in the wrong place, and now i accidentally deleted it.

T-50 (or the future FA-50??) is best suited as the de-facto successor of the Hawks, same class of trainer-light fighter and could perform CAS to a certain degree, they could do patrols and low intensity bombing cheaply, that's why i recommended them more. F-16 Vipers could be the main fighter of the air force along with IFX, but they won't be the end line, but a mere stepping stone towards a more advanced fighter in later years. I am pretty confident that at least 48 IFX will be procured and block 2 and block 3 will be available for the air force and the PT DI to procure and produce the components of.

For other aircrafts, it's C-130J a very strong contender, A-400 confirmed as procured by civil agency, tanker is KC-46 confirmed, AEW&C aircraft have Globaleye, CN-235 rotodome radar and wedgetail as a strong contender, but i'm leaning more towards the Wedgetail and perhaps so do the Air Force. For airbases, Supadio, Hassanudin, El Tari, Iswahyudi, Biak, and Ranai are the top priority.

 

[Nike]

Pardon me for the poorly placed paragraph, my computer lagged and i accidentally posted it in the wrong place, and now i accidentally deleted it.

T-50 (or the future FA-50??) is best suited as the de-facto successor of the Hawks, same class of trainer-light fighter and could perform CAS to a certain degree, they could do patrols and low intensity bombing cheaply, that's why i recommended them more. F-16 Vipers could be the main fighter of the air force along with IFX, but they won't be the end line, but a mere stepping stone towards a more advanced fighter in later years. I am pretty confident that at least 48 IFX will be procured and block 2 and block 3 will be available for the air force and the PT DI to procure and produce the components of.

For other aircrafts, it's C-130J a very strong contender, A-400 confirmed as procured by civil agency, tanker is KC-46 confirmed, AEW&C aircraft have Globaleye, CN-235 rotodome radar and wedgetail as a strong contender, but i'm leaning more towards the Wedgetail and perhaps so do the Air Force. For airbases, Supadio, Hassanudin, El Tari, Iswahyudi, Biak, and Ranai are the top priority.

Light attack jet type aircraft? CAS? No need for them actually, we got more appropriate Sutuc for COIN roles. Air Force instead will use F 16 for more heavier CAS and air defense suppression roles and with Sniper litning pod they will be more capable, more accurate (as shown in fighting in Middle East) and deliver more load out compared to Hawk or F/A 50.

Well with funding presented for next five years program, Air Force will push through all F16V, instead mixed them with clumsy light attack jet program. We got limited funds, and we preserve to maximize the most available to us.

 

[Jatosint]

Also some fun fact :

Indonesia was among the nations that requested to buy the A-10 Thunderbolt to the US but was declined.


So what's the highlight of this visit? i personally anticipated more of these infantry equipment stuffs, but apparently the AA gun and the ground radar are their main products? i think we should just stick to the Turks for AA guns as we are already interested in Korkut, so the stationary AA gun will be a better choice as it is pretty much the same thing as Korkut, better for commonality.

hmm, 1979....to be used in Timor Timor?

 

[GraveDigger388]

hmm, 1979....to be used in Timor Timor?

Could be why the refusal, I guess..

 

[zargonmuntanu]

Also some fun fact :

Indonesia was among the nations that requested to buy the A-10 Thunderbolt to the US but was declined.


So what's the highlight of this visit? i personally anticipated more of these infantry equipment stuffs, but apparently the AA gun and the ground radar are their main products? i think we should just stick to the Turks for AA guns as we are already interested in Korkut, so the stationary AA gun will be a better choice as it is pretty much the same thing as Korkut, better for commonality.

F-8???
interesting

 

[NEKONEKO]

At least we got bronco bray.
"with bronco Indonesia won't be able to defend it self from foreign invasion thus we will allow Indonesia to purchase it."
Maybe like that.

 

[GraveDigger388]

At least we got bronco bray.
"with bronco Indonesia won't be able to defend it self from foreign invasion thus we will allow Indonesia to purchase it."
Maybe like that.

When you put it that way...

 

[radialv]

Could be why the refusal, I guess..

uncle sam have used double standard, i think, when we entered east timor they support us with potential communist spread issue, and finally they against us until our complete withdrawal from there

hmm, 1979....to be used in Timor Timor?

probably, east timor type of terrain fit with those last gunship capability

 

[Chestnut]

Don't know, well, polish got license production for oerlikon GDF and this gun is simply their own variant.

Should trying to lobby US again to get A10 thunderbolt, they are the best ground attack aircraft until now. Good for maritime interdiction roles as they can pounding hardy vessels with their cannon and bombs

The US is forbidden by an act of congress to sell the A-10.

 

[HellFireIndo]

At least we got bronco bray.
"with bronco Indonesia won't be able to defend it self from foreign invasion thus we will allow Indonesia to purchase it."
Maybe like that.

Smol plane, but somehow crucial to our success in eliminating the last meaningful resistance of what left from Fretilin's regulars, without the Broncos perhaps the operation would drag on longer and takes more unnecessary casualties. We were in no good posture during that time, almost all the good toys are retired, grounded or scrapped, and only after the hard truth slapped these officers, they first considered buying COIN aircrafts, more helicopters and submarines.

Foreign invasion is not problem at all at that time, that's why the officers never think ahead to buy some serious armaments, and were so confident using mostly infantry to do almost all the jobs from intelligence to COIN in Timor Timur, and it turns out so many blunders happened during the first phase.

Also, perhaps one of the least known photograph of the operation, don't know about others but i want to share it anyway :

The original kampret :

With rocket pods?:

Bombs or drop tanks?