Indigenous Fighter Aircraft to be a Reality Soon, Says Parrikar

[dadeechi]

Engine!Engine!Engine! I think he meant this. May be he is talking about AMCA with our own Engine!!

Engine manufacturing tech coming to India via DTTI.

 

[randomradio]

You guys have to check out the brand new thread on IDF.

 

[MadDog]

How would a non-nuclear Indo-Pakistan war result?

A stalemate .

Let's see the scenarios:

Pakistan invades first

Day 1: Reason may be anything, but Pakistan amasses a huge number of soldiers. India's response is the same.

Day 2: Heavy firing begins at the border but Pakistanis are yet to cross the border. Things still look normal.

Day 3: Firing intensifies and all villages along the border are evacuated on both sides.

Day 3: The first of Pakistani airplanes fly inside Indian territory and hit an airbase. A couple of them are downed by SAMs. Most return without causing much damage since IAF has already moved its assets. The IAF holds its horses, not because they cannot, but because the government thinks that it's not worth the effort. Meanwhile, India brings in heavy artillery and shells Pakistani territory like never before.

Day 4: Washington issues a statement urging Pakistan to pull back since they started the war or face sanctions. Russia, France, and the UK says the same. China's tells Pakistan to resolve issues through talks, but does not explicitly tell them to stop the war.

Day 5: Heavy shelling still continues, but Pakistan does not cross the border still. India retaliates with greater force.

Day 6: Pakistan stops using heavy artillery. But gun still blaze.

Day 7- 10: By day 10, firing stops completely.

India invades first

Day 1: India attempts a surgical strike in a terrorist camp in ***. Without warning, Indian fighter planes in a precision blitzkrieg, destroys an LET camp. Pakistani radars blip, but by the time Pakistani interceptors take off, the Indian fighters finish their operation and cross the border.

Day 2: News reports in Pakistan say that several civilians have been killed. (I am not going into the assumption whether the reports are facts or propaganda). Public in anger protests on the streets. There are cries for war.

Day 3: In a stealth mission, Pakistani special forces raid an Indian outpost and kill three soldiers. This is a revenge attack. India opens its artillery. Heavy firing starts on both sides.

Day 4: Heavy shelling continues, but Pakistan does not send its jets to attack Indian based.

Day 5 - 12: By day 12, the shelling stops and things begin to look normal again. There is venom spewed, propaganda made, cries for war made, but nothing really happens.

Here, too, I would consider a stalemate since destroying one single camp achieves nothing. There are hundred such camps and even if ten are destroyed, twenty more will pop up.

I do not think that there would ever be a full scale war between the two countries. The stakes are just too high.

According to Mu

How would a non-nuclear Indo-Pakistan war result?

A stalemate .

Let's see the scenarios:

Pakistan invades first

Day 1: Reason may be anything, but Pakistan amasses a huge number of soldiers. India's response is the same.

Day 2: Heavy firing begins at the border but Pakistanis are yet to cross the border. Things still look normal.

Day 3: Firing intensifies and all villages along the border are evacuated on both sides.

Day 3: The first of Pakistani airplanes fly inside Indian territory and hit an airbase. A couple of them are downed by SAMs. Most return without causing much damage since IAF has already moved its assets. The IAF holds its horses, not because they cannot, but because the government thinks that it's not worth the effort. Meanwhile, India brings in heavy artillery and shells Pakistani territory like never before.

Day 4: Washington issues a statement urging Pakistan to pull back since they started the war or face sanctions. Russia, France, and the UK says the same. China's tells Pakistan to resolve issues through talks, but does not explicitly tell them to stop the war.

Day 5: Heavy shelling still continues, but Pakistan does not cross the border still. India retaliates with greater force.

Day 6: Pakistan stops using heavy artillery. But gun still blaze.

Day 7- 10: By day 10, firing stops completely.

India invades first

Day 1: India attempts a surgical strike in a terrorist camp in ***. Without warning, Indian fighter planes in a precision blitzkrieg, destroys an LET camp. Pakistani radars blip, but by the time Pakistani interceptors take off, the Indian fighters finish their operation and cross the border.

Day 2: News reports in Pakistan say that several civilians have been killed. (I am not going into the assumption whether the reports are facts or propaganda). Public in anger protests on the streets. There are cries for war.

Day 3: In a stealth mission, Pakistani special forces raid an Indian outpost and kill three soldiers. This is a revenge attack. India opens its artillery. Heavy firing starts on both sides.

Day 4: Heavy shelling continues, but Pakistan does not send its jets to attack Indian based.

Day 5 - 12: By day 12, the shelling stops and things begin to look normal again. There is venom spewed, propaganda made, cries for war made, but nothing really happens.

Here, too, I would consider a stalemate since destroying one single camp achieves nothing. There are hundred such camps and even if ten are destroyed, twenty more will pop up.

I do not think that there would ever be a full scale war between the two countries. The stakes are just too high.

According to Musharraf, during his time when he was given credible intel that Indians would do a surgical strike in AJK, He issued orders to PAF air chief, to select targets, and do a retaliatory strike the same night, and another one following that, so basically 2 strikes for each surgical strike. After that the war will escalate, especially in a scenario which includes low yield battlefield nukes which has further reduced the nuclear threshold.

 

[Taj_91]

Are both Defence forum india & indian defence Indian? I saw your posts in the latter though.

 

[randomradio]

@Oscar @Desertfalcon @gambit @Windjammer @Khafee @persona_non_grata @Bratva @Irfan Baloch @Taygibay @MastanKhan @araz

Parrikar is talking about the new stealth aircraft. Squadron service in 4-5 years.

Massive weapons load, 16 A2A missiles
High supersonic maneuverability - F-22 equivalent
Massive range - Combat radius covers Beijing while flying from NE India.
High maneuverability - 3D TVC (British)
Next gen avionics - courtesy of the Israelis
Supercruise
Stealth

Doesn't need a runway.

The Israelis are part of this project. Triple digit orders from them.

 

[sathya]

@Oscar @Desertfalcon @gambit @Windjammer @Khafee @persona_non_grata @Bratva @Irfan Baloch @Taygibay @MastanKhan @araz

Parrikar is talking about the new stealth aircraft. Squadron service in 4-5 years.

Massive weapons load, 16 A2A missiles
High supersonic maneuverability - F-22 equivalent
Massive range - Combat radius covers Beijing while flying from NE India.
High maneuverability - 3D TVC (British)
Next gen avionics - courtesy of the Israelis
Supercruise
Stealth

Doesn't need a runway.

The Israelis are part of this project. Triple digit orders from them.

Too good to be true ...
Someone trolling I guess

 

[Abingdonboy]

Come on sir, let's be realistic....

Massive weapons load, 16 A2A missiles

On a single engined aircraft?

Doesn't need a runway.

What does this mean? Vertical take off?

Massive range - Combat radius covers Beijing while flying from NE India.

Again, on a small light weight fighter? How is that even possible?

Parrikar is talking about the new stealth aircraft. Squadron service in 4-5 years.

No way, the Rafale and EFT took 20+ years, the F-22 25+ years and the LCA 20+ years. How is a plane of this stated capabilty going to enter service within 5 years? It just isn't possible, the testing period alone would likely be about this time.


This kind of insanly optimistic thinking is never going to be translated into reality and makes India look stupid. The LSA has not even been speculated about outside of internet forums.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Too good to be true ...
Someone trolling I guess

The creator is an Ex forces - Navy Harrier pilot.. we cant doubt a professional's credibility..

Thats why i said in rafale sticky.. Lets have a LXX competition.. Straight shoot out between LCA MK2 and LSA.. The winner takes the cake and 200 + jets order with combination of the creator, pvt sector, DRDO, HAL, ADA all coming together and forming a JV and combining with OEMs to deliver the end product..

Come on sir, let's be realistic....


On a single engined aircraft?


What does this mean? Vertical take off?

Again, on a small light weight fighter? How is that even possible?


No way, the Rafale and EFT took 20+ years, the F-22 25+ years and the LCA 20+ years. How is a plane of this stated capabilty going to enter service within 5 years? It just isn't possible, the testing period alone would likely be about this time.


This kind of insanly optimistic thinking is never going to be translated into reality and makes India look stupid. The LSA has not even been speculated about outside of internet forums.

Thats why i advocate LXX competition.. Lets get protos rolled out from both sides.. LCA Mk2 and LSA.. Lets prove the concepts and let it be evaluated.. Either way LXX competition will be a good initiative as the work for MK2 will then speed up too for the competition..

This LSA may actually make LCA Mk2 finally deliver as per what schedule DM MP always wanted that is end 2024. If winner is LSA also still its cool.. Either way we can get an awesome home competition done

 

[sathya]

The creator is an Ex forces - Navy Harrier pilot.. we cant doubt a professional's credibility..

Thats why i said in rafale sticky.. Lets have a LXX competition.. Straight shoot out between LCA MK2 and LSA.. The winner takes the cake and 200 + jets order with combination of the creator, pvt sector, DRDO, HAL, ADA all coming together and forming a JV and combining with OEMs to deliver the end product..




Thats why i advocate LXX competition.. Lets get protos rolled out from both sides.. LCA Mk2 and LSA.. Lets prove the concepts and let it be evaluated.. Either way LXX competition will be a good initiative as the work for MK2 will then speed up too for the competition..

This LSA may actually make LCA Mk2 finally deliver as per what schedule DM MP always wanted that is end 2024. If winner is LSA also still its cool.. Either way we can get an awesome home competition done

Is it a naval project ?

I ll dig in other forums mean while.. About this LSA

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Is it a naval project ?

I ll dig in other forums mean while.. About this LSA

IAF version i guess.. wont be surprised if a naval version gets planned later..

 

[Abingdonboy]

The creator is an Ex forces - Navy Harrier pilot.. we cant doubt a professional's credibility..

No one is doubting his professionalism but does he have an established aerospace company with annual revenues in the billions of USD? If not, how can we possible take this seriosuly? It's like the IAF officer who designed glide bombs in his garden shed. The idea might be solid but the proposition as a whole is untenable. When the giants like Dassualt, Boeing, SAAB, LM etc aren't producing anything like this, can we really put trust in a former pilot's good idea?

Thats why i said in rafale sticky.. Lets have a LXX competition.. Straight shoot out between LCA MK2 and LSA.. The winner takes the cake and 200 + jets order with combination of the creator, pvt sector, DRDO, HAL, ADA all coming together and forming a JV and combining with OEMs to deliver the end product..

This is a much more sensible approach- give the deisgns to the most capable entities in India- ADA/HAL and have them test it against the LCA Mk.2 to see what the L-XX will be for production beyond 2023. Or give it to a private player and see what they can do with it.

Is it a naval project ?

I ll dig in other forums mean while.. About this LSA

IAF version i guess.. wont be surprised if a naval version gets planned later..

It's single engined so the IN is not going to be too interested- they are only pursuing the N-LCA for developmental reasons, they aren't going to depend on it operationally. Likely they are hoping to leverage such expereince for the N-AMCA.

 

[EAK]

@Oscar @Desertfalcon @gambit @Windjammer @Khafee @persona_non_grata @Bratva @Irfan Baloch @Taygibay @MastanKhan @araz

Parrikar is talking about the new stealth aircraft. Squadron service in 4-5 years.

Massive weapons load, 16 A2A missiles
High supersonic maneuverability - F-22 equivalent
Massive range - Combat radius covers Beijing while flying from NE India.
High maneuverability - 3D TVC (British)
Next gen avionics - courtesy of the Israelis
Supercruise
Stealth

Doesn't need a runway.

The Israelis are part of this project. Triple digit orders from them.

May be indian scientists have broken the code of vedic figthers.. be realistic dude..
Parrikar turning out to be an iranian propagandist type..

 

[randomradio]

On a single engined aircraft?

Multiple weapons bays. 6 missiles internal and 8 missiles external. Carries 14 existing missiles and 16 missiles once Astra Mk2 is ready. LSA will carry 8 Astra Mk2s internally.

What does this mean? Vertical take off?

Roads and dirt strips.

It definitely needs a runway during peacetime operations, I was talking about wartime operations where airstrips are a luxury, especially when we have the PLARF breathing down our necks.

It's been designed to operate alongside IAF's Russian aircraft that don't need runways either.

Again, on a small light weight fighter? How is that even possible?

Large internal fuel capacity + low drag/body lift design + zero external payload + 2 conformal fuel tanks. Fuel fraction is 0.37 on internal fuel.

No way, the Rafale and EFT took 20+ years, the F-22 25+ years and the LCA 20+ years. How is a plane of this stated capabilty going to enter service within 5 years? It just isn't possible, the testing period alone would likely be about this time.

It will be a stable design with power by wire, no FBW. Cuts down flight testing by 3-4 years. F-22 took 8 years of tests before IOC, LSA will take 3-4.

Rafale/EFT were delayed due to business decisions after the end of Cold War, plus flight testing was more complex due to RSS design and FBW. LCA started with very few people. It was bound to take time if you have only a few hundred people working on it, it's different now.

This kind of insanly optimistic thinking is never going to be translated into reality and makes India look stupid. The LSA has not even been speculated about outside of internet forums.

Parrikar himself is talking about it. Formal announcement is expected soon.

Is it a naval project ?

I ll dig in other forums mean while.. About this LSA

There is no information about it anywhere except IDF. It's not yet been formally announced.

 

[Ind4Ever]

How would a non-nuclear Indo-Pakistan war result?

A stalemate .

Let's see the scenarios:

Pakistan invades first

Day 1: Reason may be anything, but Pakistan amasses a huge number of soldiers. India's response is the same.

Day 2: Heavy firing begins at the border but Pakistanis are yet to cross the border. Things still look normal.

Day 3: Firing intensifies and all villages along the border are evacuated on both sides.

Day 3: The first of Pakistani airplanes fly inside Indian territory and hit an airbase. A couple of them are downed by SAMs. Most return without causing much damage since IAF has already moved its assets. The IAF holds its horses, not because they cannot, but because the government thinks that it's not worth the effort. Meanwhile, India brings in heavy artillery and shells Pakistani territory like never before.

Day 4: Washington issues a statement urging Pakistan to pull back since they started the war or face sanctions. Russia, France, and the UK says the same. China's tells Pakistan to resolve issues through talks, but does not explicitly tell them to stop the war.

Day 5: Heavy shelling still continues, but Pakistan does not cross the border still. India retaliates with greater force.

Day 6: Pakistan stops using heavy artillery. But gun still blaze.

Day 7- 10: By day 10, firing stops completely.

India invades first

Day 1: India attempts a surgical strike in a terrorist camp in ***. Without warning, Indian fighter planes in a precision blitzkrieg, destroys an LET camp. Pakistani radars blip, but by the time Pakistani interceptors take off, the Indian fighters finish their operation and cross the border.

Day 2: News reports in Pakistan say that several civilians have been killed. (I am not going into the assumption whether the reports are facts or propaganda). Public in anger protests on the streets. There are cries for war.

Day 3: In a stealth mission, Pakistani special forces raid an Indian outpost and kill three soldiers. This is a revenge attack. India opens its artillery. Heavy firing starts on both sides.

Day 4: Heavy shelling continues, but Pakistan does not send its jets to attack Indian based.

Day 5 - 12: By day 12, the shelling stops and things begin to look normal again. There is venom spewed, propaganda made, cries for war made, but nothing really happens.

Here, too, I would consider a stalemate since destroying one single camp achieves nothing. There are hundred such camps and even if ten are destroyed, twenty more will pop up.

I do not think that there would ever be a full scale war between the two countries. The stakes are just too high.

Brother Day 1 Pakistan thinks about launching attack . India put its entire western command, Naval destroyers INS viki , Indian Airforce put on war mode prepared to destroy instalation.

Day 2 Pakistan start military build up India send it's Naval asserts even close. While sukois and Navy's Migs taking shorties with BVR, Cluster Bombs and A2G bombs.

Day 3 Pakistan breach. Indian Airforce moves in to Pakistan airspace. Bramos Launched and destroys key SAM systems. Navy open fire... More Bramos hits karachi with pin point accuracy. Indian army initiates Cold Start.


Day 4 Indian Army advances in many parts of Pakistan. Indian Airforce destroys major airstrip in one campaign with long range sukois, migs jags mirages...

Couple of days : Massive fire power of Indian cripples Pakistans supply. Indian army perpetrated deep into Pakistan. Deciding to launch Tactical missile as Cold start proving to be overwhelming than Pakistan thought.

What will happen next?

 

[Didact]

No one is doubting his professionalism but does he have an established aerospace company with annual revenues in the billions of USD? If not, how can we possible take this seriosuly? It's like the IAF officer who designed glide bombs in his garden shed. The idea might be solid but the proposition as a whole is untenable. When the giants like Dassualt, Boeing, SAAB, LM etc aren't producing anything like this, can we really put trust in a former pilot's good idea?

There has been quite a degree of hushed talk about the possibility of developing a VLO shaped low budget aircraft. Notice I'm using the term VLO and not 5th gen. Turns out, with the right design, it is entirely possible and feasible to develop a VLO airframe based around an existing non-VLO frame. It won't be a fifth generation aircraft in the sense that it won't have access to 5th gen avionics (at least not initially), but fundamentally, it will have the advantages of low observable design y virtue of shaping and RAM coating.

From a structural and aerodynamic perspective, and there are various simulations in super computers ( I do not know of any recent wind tunnel testing) about the same, there is no large or fundamental difference in designing a VLO 4.75 Gen aircraft from that of a 4.5 gen aircraft. A good engineer should be capable of designing such an airframe with minimum acceptable maneuverability specifications.

The bigger challenge is developing control laws, but should be manageable given that ADA has gathered significant experience in this field. About avionics, I have my doubts. If the IAF is willing to sacrifice 5th gen avionics and ECM/EW systems, then the more apt question would be why not?