Indigenous cannon system(s) for Pakistan Army

[araz]

if I remember my conversations with Someone who was working on the project, there have been trials of Pakistani artillery, but the metallurgical base that is required is in its infancy. The trials were unsuccessful.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[niaz]

Dilband, Chiniot, and Rajoa provide indigenous iron ore, do they not? For what purposes is that ore allocated and why would it not be suitable as a base to smelting high-grade steel?

It is a long way to go from Iron ore to the specialised steel. From what I know Peoples Steel Mills located at Manghopir at Karachi is the only installation which is capable of manufacturing alloy steels. All other steel mills manufacture deformed bars or steel plates of normal mild steel.

However being out of Pakistan for a number of years, there could be other steel plants of such capability that I am not aware of.

 

[Super Falcon]

use the correct word artillery we r not in the era of cannons sir

 

[Zarbe Momin]

I am just surprised. We should not underestimate Pakistan. If there is will then there is way and always remember journey of thousand miles starts with first step. If Army starts some innovative steps in HMC-Taxla they can. But still question is intention. Specialized steel is not a big problem, you can buy from anywhere and also develop in pakistan with collaboration.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

I am just surprised. We should not underestimate Pakistan.

I know some people who can build any thing . If u provide them the right financial and technical asistance they have tremendous knowlage with which they can do anything.

We did made the bomb rit ! who could have thought that a third world underdeveloped country like Pakistan could make a nuclear arsenal. The point is there is tremendous potential in people here and they can do anything.

We do have extreemly ambitious local contract engineers and a state of the ART R&D setup in our country. All we need is a congenial environment in our country which this fake war on terror is disrupting .

 

[fatman17]

this fake war on terror is disrupting .

off-topic here my brew but there is nothing fake about the WoT! self-denial mode will not solve anything!

 

[araz]

I know some people who can build any thing . If u provide them the right financial and technical asistance they have tremendous knowlage with which they can do anything.

We did made the bomb rit ! who could have thought that a third world underdeveloped country like Pakistan could make a nuclear arsenal. The point is there is tremendous potential in people here and they can do anything.

We do have extreemly ambitious local contract engineers and a state of the ART R&D setup in our country. All we need is a congenial environment in our country which this fake war on terror is disrupting .

Sir,
You may have all of that , but as per my knowledge you do not have the steel factories which produce specialized steel and roll them into tubes. You do need to invest money to build another/expand your existing Specialized Steel palant. but you are talking Billions which you do not have. Here in lies the problem
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Contrarian]

We do have extreemly ambitious local contract engineers and a state of the ART R&D setup in our country. All we need is a congenial environment in our country which this fake war on terror is disrupting .

Sorry for putting one more truth to you. You also dont have a state of the art R&D setup. A state of the art R&D setup implies you have:
1.State of the Art college's and universities. One or two dont College's dont cut it. Thus you must have a good number of College's in the world top 100-300.

2.Funding for these already state of the art college's and universities for active and continous research.

Just because you know a few local talented people does not make the R&D as a whole brilliant in your country.

 

[SSGPA1]

After reviewing these posts, I have come to a conclusion that this is a very good project to work on. How and where do we start is the next question.

Nations achieve greatness not only because their leaders are great but also the nation itself strive to become great.

If this was a project then GoP would probably take these steps:

1. Identify stake holders. This means the armed forces (includes HIT etc), GoP, independent investors, fund raising committee, regualtory agency, legal, Subject Matter Experts (SME) and businesses.

2. Setting up project leadership, representations and hierarchy for decission making. In my humble opinion, project leadership should be shared amongst all stake holders by the means of a board.

One member from each stake holder who will vote and decide upon recommendation from their groups. Board should be chaired by GoP.

Each stake holder will have representation in the form of a team or a committee and will provide status of their share of the project. These representatives will also recommend changes, issues, concerns etc to their respective board member(s).

Once the first two points are achieved then investment and an achieveable target can be identified.

 

[niaz]

Gun metal technology is highly specialized. Indian metallurgy is far more advanced than ours and also India has a much larger industrial base. Why do you think India preferred to purchase BOFORS from Sweden instead making their own? This is because metallurgy is only one of the requirements, there are many other specialized auxiliary systems that are necessary to design and manufacture a state of the art artillery piece.

To quote an example, 155mm FH-70 system for NATO required co-operation of three countries (UK, Germany and Italy). The companies that worked on it had decades of experience; these were Vickers Ltd, Rhinemetall Gmbgh & Royal Armament Research and Development Establishment. Despite all of this input; it took almost 15 years before Field Howitzer -70 artillery system could be developed and inducted into the NATO land forces.

Friends we must learn to walk before we can run.

 

[araz]

I keep coming back to my favourite rant. We have to establish a Specialized Steel factory or expand and retool the one that wehave in Karachi. It would give us the basis from where to start. GIKinstitute is providing a metallurgical base of knowledge. We then need to think about making small parts in the first instancewhich have dual use. Perhaps start fom car engines under licence, move onto Bus/truck engines. We will then have the basis for going further.
Araz

 

[aboutimeee]

Two things i like to mention, one pakistan cant make a needle but it can makes i atomic bomb. Does that mean pakistan does not have engineers to design and metallurgist to make a needle, no its simply because you can buy one form china for a fraction of a rupee.
Secondly as niaz mentioned about 155mm FH-70, you can never underestimate how difficult even the most simplest things can be. Me and my cousin do Ottoman style traditional archery. forget "highly specialized Gun metal technology" a traditional composite bow is made from just wood and horn, and its impossibly hard to build. people who make those things have been doing it for centuries and inherit the art from there fore father. you can buy an ordinary hand made bow for less than £100 but a saluki bow would cost you over £400-500+ and they would both look very similar. Now if pakistan has very good carpenters and handicrafts ppl, can those make a saluki bow never in a million years.

i guess i went off topic a bit but the point is things are harder than they look and then there is a big fat viability and cost effective issue.

 

[Xeric]

The Government of Pakistan should review and formalize a national defence manufacturing strategy.

Currently Pakistan procure majority of major defence systems from its allies around the globe. This scenario is acceptable if Pakistan’s border were secure and shorter in length, however, this is not the case.

Pakistan is located in a politically unstable region with hostile neighbours on its east and west. Securing Pakistani frontiers demands independence from foreign sources in many areas.

If we look at cannons used by Pakistan Army, we see the same status. We should target the cannons used by PA, PN and the PAF for production in Pakistan.

This will be a move towards indigenous production of modern cannon systems in Pakistan. The other target of this exercise will be to build and enhance a strategic relationship with China, where Chinese needs for such systems are met by Pakistan.

Benefit for China will be availability of resources and dependable supply line from Pakistan. First step, GoP will need to issue licenses to private firms for research and analysis along with fund raising purposes.

Funds can be raised by issuing shares with strict regulations and there is no shortage of technical expertise. If price is right, foreign expertise will also come along.

What are your thoughts?

If we can make Tanks we can also make Guns/Canons...but we don't. The reason: i'll leave this to readers imagination

 

[niaz]

If we can make Tanks we can also make Guns/Canons...but we don't. The reason: i'll leave this to readers imagination

Sir, we do make tanks, but not all of it. Al Khalid uses Ukrainian built Russian designed KMBD 6TD 2 diesel engine, French Catherine FC Thermal Imaging sights, fire control system are also imported, 125 mm smooth bore gun turret is of Chinese origin and the design was jointly developed by Chinese Norinco Corporation and HIT. It took 10 years to perfect the production version.

Does that answer your question as to why we can’t produce modern artillery systems?

 

[Xeric]

Sir, we do make tanks, but not all of it. Al Khalid uses Ukrainian built Russian designed KMBD 6TD 2 diesel engine, French Catherine FC Thermal Imaging sights, fire control system are also imported, 125 mm smooth bore gun turret is of Chinese origin and the design was jointly developed by Chinese Norinco Corporation and HIT. It took 10 years to perfect the production version.

Does that answer your question as to why we can’t produce modern artillery systems?

Thnks for the clarification bro (though i knew it) but why don't we make guns...there are certain things which shouldn't be told and as a TT you must be knowing it