Indigenous cannon system(s) for Pakistan Army

[zraver]

" I am sure S-2 can add to it."

We anticipated a conventional battle with regular Iraqi army forces and that would mean that our divisional systems would very much be in play.

In fact they were. Here's the OrBat as of 1 May 2003. Some of these units arrived after the fact (4th I.D. (Mech) would be an example.

On Point-OIF OrBat 1 May, 2003

In any case, I counted just oodles and oodles of towed 155, SP 155, and MLRS, to include three battalions by the Brits.

Those missions have been downgraded and altered over time. Most artillery units deploy with some-not all of their weapons now while maintaining other stabilization responsibilities.

He's confusing post invasion deployments with the invasion.


For others, The US Army uses its arty both rocket and tube along with attacked helos to range 5-90km behind the enemy lines so the battalion through corps areas are under fire and the USAF takes over from there and does the deep battle. The goal is to create a seal that keeps the enemy units on one side trapped and the reinforcements on the other out of the fight. It was designed to break the Soviet echelon system, it also happens to work great vs a force not big enough to do the echelon attack as Iraq found out in 91 and 2003.

other helo and tube artillery assets are tasked with direct support of the maneuver units aided by USAF assets like the A-10. What you end up with is a lethal combined arms system. Although the US tube artillery is dated, the MTSB, Pzh2000 and others offer better range, quicker RoF or other advantages and the Russian Smerch with the krapnosl (sp?) fire and forget round puts US artillery technology squarely into the nearing obsolesce category.

 

[S-2]

"Although the US tube artillery is dated, the MTSB, Pzh2000 and others offer better range, quicker RoF or other advantages and the Russian Smerch with the krapnosl (sp?) fire and forget round puts US artillery technology squarely into the nearing obsolesce category..."

Here's a quick summary of EXCALIBUR XM982 PGM. A true fire and forget-

Low cost per kill.

Increased Survivability by allowing greater stand-off from threats and faster defeat of potential threats.

Extended Range 155mm Artillery Projectile:

Nonballistic flight path.

To achieve a range of at least 37km when fired from 39-caliber howitzers.

To achieve a range of at least 47km when fired from the 52-caliber ordnance fitted to the XM2001 Crusader.

Fire-and-Forget GPS/INS (global positioning system/inertial navigation system) Guidance.

Modular Payload:
64 XM85 DPICMs

2 SADARMs (Sense and Destroy Armor)
Unitary

Modular Design:

XM982 would have the same guidance and tail sections for all three warhead options.

Also would use the same technology with the GPS receiver and guidance package that was used on the XM171 ERGM Program.

Now I'm looking and welcome a link to such but how does Krasnopol differ from COPPERHEAD dramatically? Both are laser-guided and dependant on battlefield observation and cueing of laser-designation to accomodate in-flight course correction.

I'm not tracking here.

As to general obsolescence, I'd argue that excepting an SP 155mm system to replace the M109 series (God bless her soul), our M119 105mm and M777A2 155mm towed systems are fine. Both MLRS and HIMARS are deployed and have proved useful with a variety of munitions including the GLRS with GPS and Inertial guidance to 70km as well as ATACMS to 300Km.

If we must make do w/ M109A6 in this fiscal environment, so be it. The mix of munitions, fire control, and targeting intelligence will prove adequate to dominant through the near-term, IMHO.

 

[Xeric]

Great! Then you've the Chinese copy, Type 59-1, I think.

You might be right.....

we've got the same weapon.

Since when the yanks have started buying Chinese weaponry?

I think the Chinese have slapped this barrel on a gun-chassis and have an SP version now similar to the 2S1.

Like the indians tried to convert Vijayanta into a SP Gun

BTW, 2S1 is not a bad piece.

 

[S-2]

Since when the yanks have started buying Chinese weaponry?

You misunderstood. We're writing about the same weapon and there's no confusion on the system itself.

"BTW, 2S1 is not a bad piece."

I don't know much about it except that it's been around forever (early 70s)

 

[SSGPA1]

Gun metal technology is highly specialized. Indian metallurgy is far more advanced than ours and also India has a much larger industrial base. Why do you think India preferred to purchase BOFORS from Sweden instead making their own? This is because metallurgy is only one of the requirements, there are many other specialized auxiliary systems that are necessary to design and manufacture a state of the art artillery piece.

To quote an example, 155mm FH-70 system for NATO required co-operation of three countries (UK, Germany and Italy). The companies that worked on it had decades of experience; these were Vickers Ltd, Rhinemetall Gmbgh & Royal Armament Research and Development Establishment. Despite all of this input; it took almost 15 years before Field Howitzer -70 artillery system could be developed and inducted into the NATO land forces.

Friends we must learn to walk before we can run.

You are absolutely right, lets start to walk then.

Change the project to a study about potential of building such systems.

Start with mineral and chemical resources. I hope we do have those. Biggest challenge is technology and expertise.

If such project is ever initiated then there will be a lot of support from investors plus if we pay the right money then Russian experts/engineers could also come and join as they did in Iraq.

Pakistanis in Pakistan and abroad have alot of money and if this can be something like a Venture Capital Project than funds will come in.

 

[mughaljee]

I am totally agreed

;Friends we must learn to walk before we can run;

 

[araz]

You are absolutely right, lets start to walk then.

Change the project to a study about potential of building such systems.

Start with mineral and chemical resources. I hope we do have those. Biggest challenge is technology and expertise.

If such project is ever initiated then there will be a lot of support from investors plus if we pay the right money then Russian experts/engineers could also come and join as they did in Iraq.

Pakistanis in Pakistan and abroad have alot of money and if this can be something like a Venture Capital Project than funds will come in.

i have no problem with your post. However, the problem with the planners is that even if you spend a couple of Billion $ to build your own cannon, you will be competing with a host of nations for international sales. You do not have the financial depth to offer them loans on soft terms, which other developed countries can do. So who will buy your weapons. Your overheads will be so high thatit is just not worth the effort and the money(which you dont have anyway). The more logical approach is to set up a metallurgical base first and then move from there.
WaSalam
Araz