India's Rafale punch: Deal with France on January 25

[dadeechi]

Fortunately if we get Rafale flyaway at $82Mn with mods and upgrades (israeli) and astra integration etc etc and add in some weapons package we are looking at say max $100mn per bird..

IF we look at original MMRCA the 126 birds should have been around $12.6 Bn (at 100 Mn $ flyaway) only but then the 50% offset/TOT with lead integrator HAL plus HAL production rate, quality control and cost of manhours (3 times to French Dassault merignac plant) and many other issues made the MMRCA a cropper..

The question to ask now is, if we are able to get flyaway loaded as described above around $100 Mn then why we are not pushing for Make in India more now and re do MMRCA also with newer terms , get a pvt sector company as integrator and still buy around $100 Mn average (on economies of scale). That is what DM MP is going to do...

The challenge for GOI in FGFA program which now will go JV route and will be delayed a bit due to PAKFA stage 2 not being ready (the engines the main heart of our FGFA program) implies FGFA induction probably from earlier 2022-25 timelines will move towards 2027-30 timelines. Reason being FGFA full production variant will take approx 7+ years as the bird is a derivative of PAKFA but a new design with newer tech integration meaning a rigorous regime of flight testing and if its just 3 prototypes, we are looking at a longer timeline for testing against say 10 prototypes testing multiple things..

This gap of next 12-15 years is the best time we have to get MMRCA done fully and Rafale under MII with a similar price tag fits perfectly with reasonable TOT. Many may not know that DPP 2016 stipulates that forces procuring will define what they want in offset TOT and where they want that offset not like before where any where investment can be made and shown as offset. This is why Rafale MII will be on after release of DPP 2016 so that offset and tech transfer may be said to aid directly our LCA directly. And with newer upgrades planned for Rafale F2R2 program the A2A role of Rafale gets strengthened further with new radar upgrades and 10%+ improvement in Engine thrust + MTOW improvements+ sensor fusion upgrades+ spectra improvement

I am confident that IAF may eventually get 189 rafales looking at such a price tag and if France seriously sets up the MII part and delivers on its words.. I see IN also jumping in with such a lucrative pricing and MII and get some 50-60 birds...

Eventually we may see 250+ Rafales in next 15-20 years. Post 2030 will be an era of 5th Gen FGFA stealth air superiority coming in with some 200+ birds.. and we should ensure we keep that time slot exclusive so that we can do mass production and invest heavily in FGFA then...

@FrenchPilot - I hope you like the pricing part here.. India France relationship is strong and if France delivers the goods at reasonable the same price as FrAF then i do hope India matches the France original plan for Rafale of 225 jets...

I agree if the price quoted is true It makes sense for India to go for 189 under MII.

 

[knight11]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s @Ind4Ever @The_Sidewinder @knight11 @SrNair

It is really off topic,but i have one question that i always wanted to ask,why Indians are calling the Rafale ; Rafael ?
-
Any theory ?

Sir, i was the one who tag @waz to correct the title spelling !!

It might due to our way of pronunciation may be. Rafale or Rafael same RAAFAAL. that why I like Devenagri indic, it works like typewriter --- pronounce exacts same whats written. e.g when T and O its to, and when G and O, why not gooo, why gO, btw gooo means shit in hindi.

So sir, any information on Rafale Simulator.

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy Any information on number of Simulators with the deal. Atleast the pilots could have been trained on Simulators.

Check this link for my views on LCA production slow or lacking punch or for SAAB's paid writers.

PAK FA – FGFA Deal Updates

 

[anant_s]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s @Ind4Ever @The_Sidewinder @knight11 @SrNair

It is really off topic,but i have one question that i always wanted to ask,why Indians are calling the Rafale ; Rafael ?
-
Any theory ?

lack of attention at school spelling classes perhaps

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Any information on number of Simulators with the deal. Atleast the pilots could have been trained on Simulators.

Not yet bro... I had been trying to get infor on Weapons package but its a bit hush hush.. IAF has 493 MICA with Mirages.. So don know how many more MICA may be ordered for both versions of missiles.. Major AIM is to understand Meteor and perhaps Scalp number.. We know Astra is coming.. But what for Meteor? i mean whats the target for whom we are acquiring them and how much in numbers... That is to understand the cost of weapons package.

I will check for simulator numbers and see if i can get some info on that...

Some more confirmation news from defenseworld.net what i have posted before @FrenchPilot @Abingdonboy @anant_s

Indo-French Draft Contract On Rafale Purchase Ready

Indo-French Draft Contract On Rafale Purchase Ready
Source : Our Bureau ~ Dated : Monday, December 28, 2015 @ 08:18 AM

Dassault Rafale fighter during Aero India airshow 2015

A draft contract between India and France for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter jet is ready, according to local media reports.

According to the draft contract, the first fighter jet must be supplied in the first three years after the deal has been finalized, local media reported Sunday.

India is hopeful of negotiating a price cut of up to 25 per cent in the purchase costing about US $82 million each instead of US $115 million. Indian Air Force will receive all the 36 fighters in seven years after signing the deal.

India and France are likely to sign the deal for 36 Rafale fighter aircraft on the eve of French President François Hollande’s visit to India for the Republic Day celebrations.

The Indian MoD had earlier this month said that France had agreed to reinvest 50 per cent of the contract on the Rafale fighter in India.

A top Industry source, meanwhile, said that a 50 per cent offset on the contract is an overestimation. The 50 per cent figure was applicable when the contract was being negotiated for 126 aircraft. Now that the final figure is only for 36 aircrafts, the offset figure will naturally be less.

Dassault is in talks with various Indian corporates about being possible offsets partner at this stage. The offsets partner, out of the main contract, will only be decided upon after the final inter-governmental deal is concluded.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

@FrenchPilot
Most of it due to ignorance. We heard & read the world Rafael more often. When people see the name Rafale, they ignorantly mistake it as Rafale. First time I read about the fighter back in 2008, I also felt its some kind of typing mistake, Its RAFAEL I thought.
By the way buddy how Rafale is proniunced in French, its "Ra-Fa-le" or "Ra-fal"

 

[SrNair]

@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy @anant_s @Ind4Ever @The_Sidewinder @knight11 @SrNair

It is really off topic,but i have one question that i always wanted to ask,why Indians are calling the Rafale ; Rafael ?
-
Any theory ?

Well most of us dont know the French.So they cant differentiate the Israeli Rafael and French Rafale

 

[Jat Boy]

ARE IAF GETTING RAFALE FOR $82 MILLION EACH ?????????????????????????????????????????