India's permanent seat on the UNSC

[doppelganger]

See, bro, in diplomacy you cant tell to other nations that " Please dont vote for Germany, but vote for us.'

They already part of G8, and Japan and Germany got a lot support in world in past 60 yrs, through there soft power.

I agree on the soft bit. Its the hard bit where Russia and China will NEVER play along, as I secretly imagine will the US as well.

One does not fight an existential war of that proportion just a couple of generations ago and say all is hunky dory 70 years later. Civilizational memories are a LOT longer than you give them credit for. The Jews will never allow Germany back as a major military power. And its the Jews who wield a lot of clout on Capitol Hill.

And on Japan, lets face it. China is wary, suspicious of us. It does not I think go any further with them in terms of raw visceral human emotion.

But they hate the Japanese, and will not forgive them for what they did to them and their women in the war. Moreso now today with militarism and nationalism raising its head once again in Japan's ruling elite.

 

[kaku1]

I agree on the soft bit. Its the hard bit where Russia and China will NEVER play along, as I secretly imagine will the US as well.

One does not fight an existential war of that proportion just a couple of generations ago and say all is hunky dory 70 years later. Civilizational memories are a LOT longer than you give them credit for. The Jews will never allow Germany back as a major military power. And its the Jews who wield a lot of clout on Capitol Hill.

And on Japan, lets face it. China is wary, suspicious of us. It does not I think go any further with them in terms of raw visceral human emotion.

But they hate the Japanese, and will not forgive them for what they did to them and their women in the war. Moreso now today with militarism and nationalism raising its head once again in Japan's ruling elite.

Okey, lets say P5 have to make negotiation and need to come on common ground for choosing a new member between Japan, China and India.

I am damn sure it will be Germany. Because all the P5 nations has good relations with Germany.

 

[Shotgunner51]

I agree on the soft bit. Its the hard bit where Russia and China will NEVER play along, as I secretly imagine will the US as well.

One does not fight an existential war of that proportion just a couple of generations ago and say all is hunky dory 70 years later. Civilizational memories are a LOT longer than you give them credit for. The Jews will never allow Germany back as a major military power. And its the Jews who wield a lot of clout on Capitol Hill.

And on Japan, lets face it. China is wary, suspicious of us. It does not I think go any further with them in terms of raw visceral human emotion.

But they hate the Japanese, and will not forgive them for what they did to them and their women in the war. Moreso now today with militarism and nationalism raising its head once again in Japan's ruling elite.

So even the more qualifying contenders like Japan & Germany would not be accepted, what's the hope for India & Brazil?

And since you mention history should be considered, all current P5 should be out
UK - colonialist for centuries
FR - same as above
CN - imperialist for millenia
RU - same as above
US - too short

 

[Steakhouse]

History didnt matter now. To change charter, one country need 2/3 support, and there is high possibility that Germany or Japan get that,, but I dont think India will.

No for any nation to join the P5 members with veto power that need an unanimous decision by all 5 member for the vote yes.

 

[kaku1]

No for any nation to join the P5 members with veto power that need an unanimous decision by all 5 member for the vote yes.

Yeah I know bro, and also 2/3rd majority.

So even the more qualifying contenders like Japan & Germany would not be accepted, what's the hope for India & Brazil?

And since you mention history should be considered, all current P5 should be out
UK - colonialist for centuries
FR - same as above
CN - imperialist for millenia
RU - same as above
US - too short

Accept it, there is no chance of Japan, India, South Africa or Brazil. It definitely would be Germany.

 

[Steakhouse]

UN is a useless organization which never get anything done or pass, all the UN resolution pertaining to any particular nation that will strong object by the nation involve, then particular nation will curry the favor from the P5 nation to vote down the resolution. Never ending debate, bickering over decision, fighting to defeat the resolution without any mutual agreement among the nation in UN.

 

[TejasMk3]

@doppelganger
The comments WRT the council being a winners club of WW2 are correct. India actually was asked to join the UN security council around 1951 or so But....... The Hindu : `Nehru declined offer of permanent U.N. seat' Till 1971, China was not even part of the UN, it was RoC, Taiwan.
I also agree with the comments that unless something drastic happens, what is being said by the other powers, is just lip service, as all of them would love the status quo to continue, it will not be easy at all. It should also be a harsh lesson about lost opportunities.

It is discussed really well by this Singaporean diplomat in these videos please watch:

Goto 8:25. If possible watch the whole thing (2 parts), really good talk about geopolitics.

I'd say work towards bettering the economy and solving issues/furtherng our interests. the UN has lost a lot of importance and if they continue to resist change, they will lose even more importance by not having one of the largest economies of the world. Strange but the more you run after it and sacrifice your interest for that post, by listening to someone, the less likely you will be to get it.

 

[Indian_Patriot]

Its pretty simple really...we will become a Security Council Member with the Veto when we surpass the US on a nominal GDP basis, by then we should also have an effective nuclear Triad. In this world in the future the power between nations is going to be measured economically more than militarily.

I think the forecast for this to happen is between the 2030 to 2050 time period depending on the pace of our economic growth.

 

[Fattyacids]

@doppelganger
The comments WRT the council being a winners club of WW2 are correct. India actually was asked to join the UN security council around 1951 or so But....... The Hindu : `Nehru declined offer of permanent U.N. seat' Till 1971, China was not even part of the UN, it was RoC, Taiwan.

India media fabrication of history is astounding. UNSC mandate is public information. UNSC never ever offered permanent seat to any country.

ROC-Republic of China is China, the founding member of UNSC. After the losing civil war, PRC eventually took over the UNSC seat from ROC.

 

[papertiger]

Its pretty simple really...we will become a Security Council Member with the Veto when we surpass the US on a nominal GDP basis, by then we should also have an effective nuclear Triad. In this world in the future the power between nations is going to be measured economically more than militarily.

I think the forecast for this to happen is between the 2030 to 2050 time period depending on the pace of our economic growth.

I think your timeline is somewhat correct, however economic power is only part of the equation.

India needs to make friends in the world. It also needs to start developing its own technologies and innovations. So long as the next Microsoft/IBM/Intel or Apple is American then America will be the leader of the world. India will not be powerful just because it has a large economy thanks to its large population.

EG see what happened to China in 18th and 19th century. It was the largest economy in the world but it was no match for the Western powers.

-------------------------------------

To be worthy of a permanent UNSC seat India needs the ability to project its power. There's no point of having a seat if we can't contribute to international security because of our power projection limitations.

EG if the security council created a mandate to stop a foreign war on the other side of the world who can enforce it? At the moment there's really only one country that can, America, and a few countries that can contribute in a meaningful fashion: the UK/France.

When India has a few supercarrier battlegroups in its arsenal then it would be a useful addition to the UNSC, until then what point does it serve aside from aggrandizing India's own nest? That's my impartial view.

UN is a useless organization which never get anything done or pass, all the UN resolution pertaining to any particular nation that will strong object by the nation involve, then particular nation will curry the favor from the P5 nation to vote down the resolution. Never ending debate, bickering over decision, fighting to defeat the resolution without any mutual agreement among the nation in UN.

IDK, I think the UN has served its main purpose (to stop major power wars).
It was never intended to be representative of the whole world, hence most of the power of the UN is concentrated in its founding members.

Really the UN is the P5 nations, a UN consisting of just those Nations would be just as effective as the current UN body. The voice of Kenya, or Nigeria doesn't matter in terms of world affairs or world security. Kenya and Nigeria are at the whim of the Western powers and increasing China, as all nations are.

In 20 or so years China might start to rival the US, then in another 20 years India will join them. So perhaps we could add India to that P5 group then, but anymore nations than this is superfluous.