India’s HAL Offers To Build 40 Additional Sukhoi Su-30MKI Fighters

[ziaulislam]

Yes India is in a desperate situation but here are some facts

Rafales are too expensive
F-35 is not on offer
IAF does not like MIG-29/35 and SU-30
Modi withdrew from SU-57
There would be any ToT for F-16 or F-18

This leaves only Gripen in the field.

rafales is expensive because instead of buying in bulk 120+ with some local assembly india instead just bought 36 in fly away condition even worse its just 36, additional 72 would have cost just 10 billion more..

f35 will be offered if india pushes for it

no idea why su 57 was axed

i doubt you will get more tOt in gripen, f-16 or f-18 ...

best option was

• rafales 120+(for navy/airforce) 6-8 squardons(cost total 20~ billion dollars vs now 8 billion dollars)
• su 30 additional units (total~300-320=15 sq) 4-5 billion dollars
• LCA in numbers with foreign radar/engine and weapons(12 sq~ 200-250= 12 billion dollars)
• upgrading mig 29+ mirage 2000(6 sq)
• = 41-42 sq

instead we are seeing limited rafale order, duplication with LCA(either scrap it and go for gripen or buy it)

 

[PurpleStone]

rafales is expensive because instead of buying in bulk 120+ with some local assembly india instead just bought 36 in fly away condition even worse its just 36, additional 72 would have cost just 10 billion more..

Because there are more kickbacks for direct purchases. This is the reason why there is talk of buying another 36 directly from DA/France with no ToT or Make in India.

f35 will be offered if india pushes for it

F-35 will be offered after 2030 through FMS deal if India buys F-16 now.

no idea why su 57 was axed

Because the deal was through HAL. Politicians cannot make money when a Government entity (PSU) is involved.

i doubt you will get more tOt in gripen, f-16 or f-18 ...

But after Rafales the next best option to make money is through Gripen deal.

 

[ziaulislam]

Because there are more kickbacks for direct purchases. This is the reason why there is talk of buying another 36 directly from DA/France with no ToT or Make in India.



F-35 will be offered after 2030 through FMS deal if India buys F-16 now.



Because the deal was through HAL. Politicians cannot make money when a Government entity (PSU) is involved.



But after Rafales the next best option to make money is through Gripen deal.

true for both pakistan and india..but we dont have the money and the military is under severe pressure to decrease the spending (18% of federal, 8% of total budget) from political parties.....so direct purchases are going to dry up from our side

 

[PurpleStone]

true for both pakistan and india..but we dont have the money and the military is under severe pressure to decrease the spending (18% of federal, 8% of total budget) from political parties.....so direct purchases are going to dry up from our side

Sometimes having no money and no options is a blessing in disguise. India inducted Mig-21,23,25,27,29 , M2K, Jaguars all when India was growing at 3% but cannot select/induct MMRCA in almost 2 decades when the growth rate was 8% with literally all suppliers willing to sell.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sometimes having no money and no options is a blessing in disguise. India inducted Mig-21,23,25,27,29 , M2K, Jaguars all when India was growing at 3% but cannot select/induct MMRCA in almost 2 decades when the growth rate was 8% with literally all suppliers willing to sell.

problem is unrealistic expectation..you cannot expect rafale to give you everything no matter how much money you threw
the solution is to address cute issues(shortage vs china) with rafale assembly some tot and LCA while the chronic issue with LCA support and MCA(with JV on critical technologies)

 

[PurpleStone]

problem is unrealistic expectation..you cannot expect rafale to give you everything no matter how much money you threw
the solution is to address cute issues(shortage vs china) with rafale assembly some tot and LCA while the chronic issue with LCA support and MCA(with JV on critical technologies)

There is only one power center in Pakitan and PAF has judiciously used the resources and options to create a successful product in JF-17. On the other hand India has multiple power centers each lobbying for their own horse.

 

[aman_rai0007]

India should keep building mki...
We should have at least 16 sqd of mki

 

[北京烤鴨]

There is only one power center in Pakitan and PAF has judiciously used the resources and options to create a successful product in JF-17. On the other hand India has multiple power centers each lobbying for their own horse.

Only a war test can tell success or failure. For now jf17 has a good crash rate compared to Tejas (none accidents so far)

 

[Daghalodi]

problem is unrealistic expectation..you cannot expect rafale to give you everything no matter how much money you threw
the solution is to address cute issues(shortage vs china) with rafale assembly some tot and LCA while the chronic issue with LCA support and MCA(with JV on critical technologies)

Correct me if i am wrong India purchased rafales off the shelf in a hurry to fill in strategic gap but do you really think 36 rafales are more than enough for China and Pakistan?

 

[北京烤鴨]

Correct me if i am wrong India purchased rafales off the shelf in a hurry to fill in strategic gap but do you really think 36 rafales are more than enough for China and Pakistan?

we are not attacking India for next 100 years, you take care of your self

 

[Daghalodi]

we are not attacking India for next 100 years, you take care of your self

China dont need to attack You Indians

Because

Classic example of Indians hating on Indians

 

[Windjammer]

Only a war test can tell success or failure. For now jf17 has a good crash rate compared to Tejas (none accidents so far)

PAF has the same number of JF-17 operational squadrons in service as there are the number of Tejas produced. Besides there's no much chance of a crash when you spend most of your time on the back of a trailer.

 

[he-man]

rafales is expensive because instead of buying in bulk 120+ with some local assembly india instead just bought 36 in fly away condition even worse its just 36, additional 72 would have cost just 10 billion more..

f35 will be offered if india pushes for it

no idea why su 57 was axed

i doubt you will get more tOt in gripen, f-16 or f-18 ...

best option was

• rafales 120+(for navy/airforce) 6-8 squardons(cost total 20~ billion dollars vs now 8 billion dollars)
• su 30 additional units (total~300-320=15 sq) 4-5 billion dollars
• LCA in numbers with foreign radar/engine and weapons(12 sq~ 200-250= 12 billion dollars)
• upgrading mig 29+ mirage 2000(6 sq)
• = 41-42 sq

instead we are seeing limited rafale order, duplication with LCA(either scrap it and go for gripen or buy it)

1)More rafales will come.....the deal is costly due to huge infrastructure development for the rafales,once that is done the new rafales in flyway condition will cost sub 100 million each which is pretty good.

2)We do not want F-35 and i doubt it will even be offered.Even if its offered it will be delivered after the other 2700-2800 off planes are delivered to the other nations that signed the deal first and it means waiting years all together.

3)No one gives a shit about gripen anymore........its a single engine aircraft and mmrca was all about dual engines.For the single engine tejas has been selected and air force has already put an order of confirmed 83 mk1 + others.There is no second thought about it.It has been integrated with derby and astra already,test firing is done too.So all there F-16 and gripen prospects are bullshit.

4)FGFA is dead........su-57 is not.Most likely it will be bought off shelf from russia just like mki was and locally produced.

 

[北京烤鴨]

PAF has the same number of JF-17 operational squadrons in service as there are the number of Tejas produced. Besides there's no much chance of a crash when you spend most of your time on the back of a trailer.

are you sending your pilots with one way ticket to India?

 

[Windjammer]

are you sending your pilots with one way ticket to India?

Why not ask these Agni Pankh Patils, how did they end up on the wrong side of the border.