India's First Scorpène-Class Diesel-Electric Attack Submarine INS Kalvari Rolled Out!

[temp1994]

Of course they use they same name. However, only guidance systems have changed.

Exocet does not have any countermeasures, it is still woefully slow as it is subsonic. It cannot do terminal maneuvers. Its basically a very outdated missile. I cannot think of a single CIWS system that will not cut it into peices way before it comes close to any ship.

A Submarine of Scorpene class could not launch swarming attacks required to kill Type-055 or Type-052D destroyer anyway , on its own.So why bother?

You need a SSN or a surface ship to launch swarming attacks. Scorpene is more suited to kill unarmed merchant ships and Pakistani ships which barring 3 new F-22D frigates does not have a decent AA capability.

 

[Manindra]

Thats why is said, the scorpene will work for offence against Pakistani subs, but really does not have the teeth to fight Chinese subs or surface fleets.

Subsonic means outdated for todays CIWS that are capable of shooting down supersonic anti ship missiles with countermeasures and maneuvering terminal stages. The Exocet has none of these.

You are presumed that subsonic means obsolete .
What Chinese field that it cannot counter with one of the best torpedo in the world ?
Chinese themselve field subsonic C-802 missile.
Only thing it lacks, AIP which comes only in last two Subs.

 

[GURU DUTT]

A Submarine of Scorpene class could not launch swarming attacks required to kill Type-055 or Type-052D destroyer anyway , on its own.So why bother?

You need a SSN or a surface ship to launch swarming attacks. Scorpene is more suited to kill unarmed merchant ships and Pakistani ships which barring 3 new F-22D frigates does not have a decent AA capability.

but owr main concern is not Pakistani navy and we dont need scorpenes for PN its like using a sabre for work od a kitchen knife its chinese navy and they have every thing to fight off convention sub sonik anty ship missiles

 

[lasttry]

A Submarine of Scorpene class could not launch swarming attacks required to kill Type-055 or Type-052D destroyer anyway , on its own.So why bother?

Exactly ... Which is why I said we got conned with this deal - paying three times the cost of a kilo class sub for a piece of trash that's not capable of much more than the kilos. At least the kilos can launch the klub missiles which are 3 mach with terminal maneuvering.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You are presumed that subsonic means obsolete .
What Chinese field that it cannot counter with one of the best torpedo in the world ?
Chinese themselve field subsonic C-802 missile.
Only thing it lacks, AIP which comes only in last two Subs.

and what stopped us or is stopping us to make all reaming three scorpenes fitted with AIP ?

 

[Abingdonboy]

DM blames congress govt for the delay .As most of the delay was due to bad review system and chalta hai attitude.of former DM and UPA .

I hope this shuts up all those blaming the French for the delays and thus being skeptical of all their deals with India.

 

[Manindra]

and what stopped us or is stopping us to make all reaming three scorpenes fitted with AIP ?

Because Navy does not want MESMA AIP because they think it would be potential risk (may be accidently) to Sub, Stirling is obsolete. So, DRDO is developing AIP on fuel cell based which would be ready between 2017-18. So first 4 submarine would be without AIP, which can be fitted during their first mid life upgrade.

 

[lasttry]

You are presumed that subsonic means obsolete .
What Chinese field that it cannot counter with one of the best torpedo in the world ?
Chinese themselve field subsonic C-802 missile.
Only thing it lacks, AIP which comes only in last two Subs.

I am not presumed anything!!

To shoot one of the best torpedos in the world, you need to get within 30 miles of the target. Like I said, the best we can hope to use the Scorpene is for torpedo warfare against other sub fleets. This thing will be a sitting duck trying to take on an advanced surface fleet. Firing an Exocet will only end up giving its location away and it may get hunted down even before the subsonic Exocet reaches its target.

If there is any chance to integrate the Klub S onto the Scorpene, it will be a massive force multiplier. But I seriously doubt if it will be possible.

 

[temp1994]

but owr main concern is not Pakistani navy and we dont need scorpenes for PN its like using a sabre for work od a kitchen knife its chinese navy and they have every thing to fight off convention sub sonik anty ship missiles

Dude,

This sub is for Pakistan. Our Kilo class are ancient tech now and we need a SSK to hunt down other subs like Agosta-90 with AIP and Pakistani ships (mostly Subs) in Arabian sea.

This is not a SSN. We would be fighting with China in open seas and this class of submarine could not fight in open seas properly.

Against China we would be stuck with Chakra and follow on SSN's and surface Ships.

Exactly ... Which is why I said we got conned with this deal - paying three times the cost of a kilo class sub for a piece of trash that's not capable of much more than the kilos. At least the kilos can launch the klub missiles which are 3 mach with terminal maneuvering.

I think Kilos are outdated now and we neither need and probably nor intend to use Subs as anti-Shipping platform.

A Kolkata class could sink whole Pakistani navy twice in single salvo.

 

[longewala]

You don't know how many blocks Exocet have ?
First block produced & latest block produced are same due to they use same name ?

Indeed, the f-16, Apache and su-30s produced today merely share the name with the original product, and the sidewinder was the best short range am for 40 years, guess why?

In this case, I suppose we will induct the exocet block 3, which will also be used by the french and uae, neither of whom compromise on weapons quality.

In any case, anti-ship will likely be a secondary role and its main task will be to hunt down pakistani subs which are much inferior.

 

[lasttry]

I hope this shuts up all those blaming the French for the delays and thus being skeptical of all their deals with India.

There is a difference between responsibility and accountability. The DM and UPA are accountable for the delay as they did not take corrective actions on a timely manner, but the responsible parties for the delay are Mazgon and the French.

 

[Manindra]

I am not presumed anything!!

To shoot one of the best torpedos in the world, you need to get within 30 miles of the target. Like I said, the best we can hope to use the Scorpene is for torpedo warfare against other sub fleets. This thing will be a sitting duck trying to take on an advanced surface fleet. Firing an Exocet will only end up giving its location away and it may get hunted down even before the subsonic Exocet reaches its target.

If there is any chance to integrate the Klub S onto the Scorpene, it will be a massive force multiplier. But I seriously doubt if it will be possible.

You cannot get exact location of submarine which fire Exocet from torpedo tube beyond 180 km away.
But one thing is absurd I think is Navy wants VLS for Brahmos for P75I project for 290 km range missile which definitely helps to locate submarine position.

 

[kaykay]

Its a shitty sub, China need to fear only the Chakra. The scorpenes may be new but they are armed with bullshit for weapons. But these are still a threat to Pakistan.

Whoa!!! Its one of the most advance and silent conventional submarines available there. Black Shark tarpedos are among most advance heavy weight tarpedos and Exocet missiles are equally good as harpoons which Soryu carries. Can you elaborate about your 'shitty weapon' statement?

 

[Manindra]

Indeed, the f-16, Apache and su-30s produced today merely share the name with the original product, and the sidewinder was the best short range am for 40 years, guess why?

In this case, I suppose we will induct the exocet block 3, which will also be used by the french and uae, neither of whom compromise on weapons quality.

Thats why I am trying to say.
You cannot compare current AIM-9X Sidewinder to first Sidewinder Missile.

 

[lasttry]

Dude,

This sub is for Pakistan. Our Kilo class are ancient tech now and we need a SSK to hunt down other subs like Agosta-90 with AIP and Pakistani ships (mostly Subs) in Arabian sea.

This is not a SSN. We would be fighting with China in open seas and this class of submarine could not fight in open seas properly.

Against China we would be stuck with Chakra and follow on SSN's and surface Ships.




I think Kilos are outdated now and we neither need and probably nor intend to use Subs as anti-Shipping platform.

A Kolkata class could sink whole Pakistani navy twice in single salvo.

If you read through the last two pages, this is exactly what I have been saying. That the Scorpenes will not worry the Chinese and should not worry them as the weapons compliment will be ineffective against Chinese surface fleets. And that the Scorpenes can be at best used for anti sub ops against Pakistani subs. They do not have the teeth to deal with anything more.

The kilos are surely outdated, bu they carry some serious firepower. If they get within 200 km of a surface fleet, they can unload 8 Klubs within 5 minutes. Further they are also good anti air platforms against Naval air assets like anti sub aircraft or copters. The scorpene capabilities are laughable compared to that.