India's Demand for Russia to Transfer Tech on PAK FA: Practical or Preposterous?

[EndangeredSpecies]

This thread is about India issueing an ultimatum to get full tech transfer, include source code. And Russia will say no. India will leave with no other choice but wait in line patiently for f-35 while Pakistani stealth jets roam above Indian skies. India is becoming greedy and desperate with Russian arm suppliers and it will end up with nothing, nada.

No, its the other way round. India helped Russia when they had sanctions on them. With their greater inclination to China, India wants their money's worth. Its simple give and take. Russia is also in a situation where they have much lesser financial power in bargaining.

Honestly, it will come down to this. Pay us (Russia) twice what you are paying right now and we will do a JV with you and produce a plane based on PAK-FA with complete technology transfer. The same happened with China producing HQ-16 from Buk missiles.

 

[fallstuff]

Why would they give the technology away ? I am sure China can give Russia $5 billion as it is just pocket change for the Chinese.

Indians are being delusional as usual, there is nothing new to see here folks, move along !!!

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Why would they give the technology away ? I am sure China can give Russia $5 billion as it is just pocket change for the Chinese.

Indians are being delusional as usual, there is nothing new to see here folks, move along !!!

If you think any government will give $5 billion as pocket change then you are indeed delusional. Hint, governments work in beaurocratic fashion and any expense has a lot of deliberation.

Lastly, India's stance is not delusional but a negotiating one. India wants more than what Russia is giving in ToT. So it will play hardball. If we have to buy planes only then there are other countries who are ready to sell planes.

 

[Dungeness]

Thats not Russia's headache. What India does with the ToT is India's choice. Lastly, Chinese are unique at copying any product defence or otherwise, if the production happens in China. Heck IBM used to produce parts of their computers in Japan but Japanese produced their own designs and not copied what IBM was producing. Do that in China and you have a complete copy.

Smearing China's effort with accusations like "copy, paste, steal" or whatever, is not going to make India any better. The facts remain that China's own 5th generation fighters have entered into service for PLAAF, but India is still "demanding" foreign companies to share their tech, and still years away from being able to field 5th gen fighters, indigenous or otherwise. Remember, two countries started on the same footing.

Don't get mad, get even.

 

[c-dome1]

russia will not give the tech

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

Smearing China's effort with accusations like "copy, paste, steal" or whatever, is not going to make India any better. The facts remain that China's own 5th generation fighters have entered into service for PLAAF, but India is still "demanding" foreign companies to share their tech, and still years away from being able to field 5th gen fighters, indigenous or otherwise. Remember, two countries started on the same footing.

Don't get mad, get even.

Actually, China is many year behind inducting J-20 in any significant numbers. If there is anyone with proven fifth generation platform, it is USA and USA alone. Don't get mad and its not even a smear attempt. These are hard facts.

Lastly, India is making sure it gets fifth generation technologies by forcing Russia to give real ToT. If it were planes only, we have France, Sweden and USA as well.

russia will not give the tech

You are right, Russia will not give tech. Easily or Cheap that is.

 

[c-dome1]

im not sure how stealth that plane

 

[salarsikander]

If you think any government will give $5 billion as pocket change then you are indeed delusional. Hint, governments work in beaurocratic fashion and any expense has a lot of deliberation.

Lastly, India's stance is not delusional but a negotiating one. India wants more than what Russia is giving in ToT. So it will play hardball. If we have to buy planes only then there are other countries who are ready to sell planes.

What countries are willing to offer you their top notch stealth planes tech for mere 5bn dollars as of now ?

 

[c-dome1]

What countries are willing to offer you their top notch stealth planes tech for mere 5bn dollars as of now ?

no one buy india fund part of t-50 project and took part of development

 

[salarsikander]

no one buy india fund part of t-50 project and took part of development

Indian wasn't forced to get into this joint venture. Basically Indians are paying for the design and development. Other than that what is their share ?

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

What countries are willing to offer you their top notch stealth planes tech for mere 5bn dollars as of now ?

France is, they gave us the firmware source code for Radar. They are also helping GTRE to fix the Kaveri.

About money I agree, no one will give it cheap. I think Russia will agree if the order is worth 15 billion or more.

Indian wasn't forced to get into this joint venture. Basically Indians are paying for the design and development. Other than that what is their share ?

Exactly, Russia needs India more to fund the design and development. If India funds design and development, India should get the technology that comes out of it not just the product.

 

[salarsikander]

France is, they gave us the firmware source code for Radar. They are also helping GTRE to fix the Kaveri.

About money I agree, no one will give it cheap. I think Russia will agree if the order is worth 15 billion or more.

I m not talking about radar or anything. I m talking about complete stealth package. Whomelse is there to offer yu in market that. Secondly, kaveri will never b fixed. Why would french lose their potential big customer.

 

[c-dome1]

india need to develop alone

 

[salarsikander]

France is, they gave us the firmware source code for Radar. They are also helping GTRE to fix the Kaveri.

About money I agree, no one will give it cheap. I think Russia will agree if the order is worth 15 billion or more.


Exactly, Russia needs India more to fund the design and development. If India funds design and development, India should get the technology that comes out of it not just the product.

Again if you shove this under their throat. The deal will get cancelled. And Russia with a potential stealth fighter blue prints can may as well ask China or turkey perhaps. See you guys have nothing on hand. You merely spent money. They have the tech and the means to make it. They're putting the btains . you are merely throwing in peanuts at them. If money could buy TOT. Then Arabs would he like Japan. You see knowledge is learnt and experienced not bought.
Secondly cozying too much with USA will have ts repercussions. You simply ignore that fact

 

[EndangeredSpecies]

I m not talking about radar or anything. I m talking about complete stealth package. Whomelse is there to offer yu in market that. Secondly, kaveri will never b fixed. Why would french lose their potential big customer.

Well, if chinese Woshang can be fixed, there is no reason why Indian Kaveri cannot be fixed. With right kind of technical consultancy that is. Stealth is a part of entire plane design. If we are paying for design and development, we will and should get it. If Russia does not partner with us, so be it. We can join with France or Japan or Korea in their JV for 5th gen fighter plane.