India's conventional military superiority over Pakistan is exaggerated.

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

As you say. All I'm trying to say is, India has no interest in attacking or conquering Pakistan. The only reason that we are enemies is because of you. India even helped you out with an aid of crores of rupees after Independence. It completely shows that India never wanted to have ill intentions against Pakistan. The only reason we are enemies is because you couldn't control your greed in taking Kashmir when it was vulnerable. Your country has always sulked and cried.

Hence, it is completely justified when I say that Pakistan lives under India's shadow. Like a weaker brother with a sense of inferiority who takes the seemingly easier, more selfish and often a dangerous path to act out as the superior one and fails. And is baat ki tareek shaahid hai. Nahi hoga yaar tumse. Jab kar sakte the tab sustain nahi kar paye. Aur ab bhi nahi badlega tumhara kuch jab tak Fauji hukumat hai.

This is what a Pakistani General once said to an American govt official, he said, "When an average Pakistani looks out of his door he sees poverty, he sees filth, he knows the government is corrupt - basically we haven't accomplished anything. The only source of light, for the Pakistani nation in the last 50 years, is: we built the bomb!"

(I would give the source but I am unable to post links her The video is on You Tube)

India can only cease being a threat to Pakistan when Pakistan stops behaving like India is the threat. India has ambitions much beyond Pakistan. In fact, the day you stop competing with India is the day when you start on the path of leaving India behind!

Move on guys!

LOL......Pakistan is most definitely not like a "little brother" to india. Please stop trying to somehow find a non-existent connection between my race and your people. It does not exist. Nor will it ever do so. indians are as similar to Pakistanis as a are sub-Saharan Africans. Don't know where you got the "filth and poverty" part from. No nation on earth is as filthy, poverty stricken and malnourished as indians are. In fact india has at least 33% of the world's most severely malnourished and extreme poor. That is one of the biggest human tragedies and catastrophes to ever befall mankind. There is no way any non-indians could ever emulate or envy that:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-third-of-worlds-poorest-says-World-Bank.html

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/2-3...-malnourished-Report/articleshow/39582261.cms

http://m.firstpost.com/business/eco...ne-that-shows-67-of-india-is-poor-993241.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/indias-malnutrition-shame/

The above is the closet thing to hell on earth. Yet you indians are deluded into thinking you are a superpower when the above is the reality over your race and nation. Your reality means that no indian is in any position to judge any other nation on earth.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Firstly for the highlighted, you are indeed a NOBODY who is trying hard to remain relevant.

I wonder if the Admins charged for each post, would your kind be such a waste of space posting crap without remorse, launching attack on Lahore in the middle of night certainly translates into Pakistan declaring the war and while artillery duels and air combat had already taken place in Eastern sector towards the end of November, the strike on 3rd December in West was anything but pre-emptive. All hail Indian history. And count your blessings that BB compromised with Rajiv and you were saved the humiliation and even today you need an army of several hundred thousands to try and contain a few hundred freedom fighters speaks volumes about your prowess.

When a gentleman from an earlier generation was told by his Jesuit teacher at the missionary college in Calcutta that he should improve his Bengali, his bewildered retort was that he was making every effort to; he read The Amrita Bazar Patrika every day. The paper was a rag, and if your claims are based on it, more fool you.

This is a reporter attached to the 'front' (in those PR-unfriendly days, nobody got to within miles of conversations between a COAS and his staff officers, particularly in the case of Muchu Chaudhuri, who was as British as they came). I notice that to Pakistanis of a certain kind, and the reference is not to you, since you are British, the gloating over this boast that never was and never could be is of more value than the actual results of the war. As I have said again and again, this is a fond imagining of a certain kind of person, and was never anything other than a figment of somebody's imagination. I notice that you have reproduced two scraps of newspaper with the headlines, but not the remark in question; that, endearingly, is your own little bit, put into quotation marks. There you are: instant history, made to colours and fabric lining of your choice!

You should have been a bespoke tailor, @Windjammed; you have a knack for it.

As for the rest of your squeaky little attempts at putting up a brave front and justifying your fundamental ignorance of the basic details, forget about higher principles, this might help you to light your way:


Touchstone. I did dislike the cut of a certain courtier’s beard: he sent me word, if I said his beard was not cut well, he was in the mind it was: this is called the “retort courteous.” If I sent him word again it was not well cut, he would send me word he cut it to please himself; this is called the “quip modest.” If again, it was not well cut, he disabled my judgment: this is called the “reply churlish.” If again, it was not well cut, he would answer, I spake not true: this is called the “reproof valiant.” If again, it was not well cut, he would say, I lie: this is called the “countercheck quarrelsome”: and so to the “lie circumstantial,” and the “lie direct.”… I durst go no farther than the “lie circumstantial,” nor he durst not give me the “lie direct”; and so we measured swords, and parted…. We quarrel in print, by the book; as you have books for good manners: I will name you the degrees. The first, the retort courteous; the second, the quip modest; the third, the reply churlish; the fourth, the reproof valiant; the fifth, the countercheck quarrelsome; the sixth, the lie with circumstance; the seventh, the lie direct. All these you may avoid, but the lie direct, and you may avoid that, too, with an if. I knew when seven justices could not take up a quarrel.

You mention India declaring war; the war was declared when tanks, artillery and regular troops of the 12th Division attacked Indian forces, and it is Z. A. Bhutto's act of legerdemain in convincing a particularly inept set of generals that war in the former territory of J&K was different from war among the states themselves that led to this hilarious interpretation of international law.

I take it that your inchoate phrases about east and west are supposed to convey to us that since armed clashes had broken out in the east, Pakistani air-strikes in the west were not pre-emptive; anything but, in your phrasing. Let us take a look at that interesting proposition.

pre-emptive
priˈɛmptɪv/
adjective

1. serving or intended to pre-empt or forestall something, especially to prevent attack by disabling the enemy.
   "a pre-emptive strike"

Are you sure you want to stick to your ill-researched and badly-worded summary, Windy? The phrase has nothing to do with what happened elsewhere; it is quite clearly related to a chain of events where there was no attack on the western front. It was quite clearly intended to prevent attack by disabling the enemy.

And what about BB and Rajiv? If you remember, the matter was done and dusted when their parents met; would you like me to reproduce the clauses and the language of the treaty? So what, in your feverish little imaginings, was it that the meeting of these two accomplished that reflected such glory on Pakistani arms? Perhaps a quotation will illustrate how ridiculous your statement is:

"But what good came of it at last?"
Quoth little Peterkin.
"Why, that I cannot tell," said he,
"But 'twas a famous victory."

Read more at http://www.poetry-archive.com/s/the_battle_of_blenheim.html#ELrQUg8RiV00ztgP.99

Ramzan Kareem, Windjammed.

Firstly for the highlighted, you are indeed a NOBODY who is trying hard to remain relevant.

I wonder if the Admins charged for each post, would your kind be such a waste of space posting crap without remorse, launching attack on Lahore in the middle of night certainly translates into Pakistan declaring the war and while artillery duels and air combat had already taken place in Eastern sector towards the end of November, the strike on 3rd December in West was anything but pre-emptive. All hail Indian history. And count your blessings that BB compromised with Rajiv and you were saved the humiliation and even today you need an army of several hundred thousands to try and contain a few hundred freedom fighters speaks volumes about your prowess.

Two little things in conclusion:

People in glass houses, W, must not throw stones; talk about the Admins charging for each post is not clever, coming from one who has 19,591 messages addressing another who has perhaps half that number!

Finally, since you are writing in a military affairs forum, remind yourself, please, how many soldiers make up the numbers for a conventional infantry division. Now multiply that by 9 (you can take help on this, if you wish). Does the number come to several hundred thousands?

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

http://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...untry1=india&country2=pakistan&Submit=COMPARE


looks like India has a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 advantage over Pakistan

. GlobalFirepower doesn't give an accurate account as it more focussed quantitatively then takimg into account all the factors. See the latest business insider ranking which puts pakistan at #11 and India #5 even below japan#4.

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-are-the-worlds-20-strongest-militaries-ranked-2016-4

 

[Butchcassidy]

We take pride in our resolute will to fight ten times bigger enemy anywhere and everywere...

In icy mountains, in warm fields, in deserts, at sea...by using whatever means possible.

You can cry like a little indian that you are...doesn't matter to us.

ALL nations carry out assymetric warfare against their enemies. We just bled you by it a bit more than indians had originally expected. Nothing more.

We survived massive odds because of our sheer fighting will.

But "sheer fighting will" is a hard concept for hindus to comprehend.

Imagine if roles were reversed. Islamic India of 1 billion vs Hindu Pakistan 18 0 million (size, population, resources same).

We would have run you over in every way possible...

However, you couldn't even come close to us in that regard.

Too late, u should have given this lecture to niazi

 

[Hellfire]

And how do you know he is ex air defence

Have been indulging in interaction with him as have some professionals of verified antecedents.

rest is your choice. Interact and you will find a matured technical person instead of the usual riff raff

 

[The SC]

on a cheeky note.. if anyone follows "epic rap battles of history", i can sum up the OP's write up about questioning India's conventional superiority in one sentence:

there are 10 million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, million, particles in the universe that you can observe... your mama took the ugly ones and put them into one nerd. (from ERB of History - Einstien vs Stephen hawking)

bascially you have taken all the ills of the system and put them into one article to show them in complete bad light, while the optimist takes all the positives and shows them in a glorious way... the truth.. usually lies somewhere in between.

If Pakistan was not convinced of India's conventional superiority, it would not have jumped into either Chinese or US band wagon or would not have to make TNWs to restore parity.

First things first, the article has a source, second I did not know that there were beautful and ugly particles inn the universe; can you enlighten us about that?
And how come India jumped into the Russian, European, and now American band wagon, does it mean that India is convinced of Pakistan conventional superiority.. your post does not make sense..

 

[bloo]

Firstly for the highlighted, you are indeed a NOBODY who is trying hard to remain relevant.

I wonder if the Admins charged for each post, would your kind be such a waste of space posting crap without remorse, launching attack on Lahore in the middle of night certainly translates into Pakistan declaring the war and while artillery duels and air combat had already taken place in Eastern sector towards the end of November, the strike on 3rd December in West was anything but pre-emptive. All hail Indian history. And count your blessings that BB compromised with Rajiv and you were saved the humiliation and even today you need an army of several hundred thousands to try and contain a few hundred freedom fighters speaks volumes about your prowess.

Ah, “Sarcasm,the protest of those who are weak.” I get it, condescension makes you feel like you are making a valid point, but it actually just fuels the rhetoric that you have been laying on thick.
Artillery duels had been commonplace much much before 1971, your point is moot. Battle of Dhalai in the East was the actual catalyst where we saw an increase in artillery strikes by Pak as well as a massive gathering of Pakistani troops for a preemtive strike. It was thwarted by Indian forces by the same. As for air combat, IAF didn't formally participate in East Pak until 3rd December, though IAF had given Dakotas to the Bengalis, nothing Pakistan should be surprised about since their unequivocal support of belligerents on both sides of the border. The dog-fighting on Boyra in late November on the other hand was in response to PAF infiltration in Jessore i.e. Indian air space.
So YES the air strike on Dec 3rd WAS a pre-emptive by Pakistan.
Please don't talk of matters you know nothing about. You are facing the same challenges, overwhelming numbers on your side and yet your terrorists are trouncing you every chance they get. Same for US and every other country out there. Guerilla warfare is different to conventional warfare, it would be wise not to mix up the two. And if you hadn't noticed, we are winning against the terrorists in Kashmir. Stats over 20 years is a testament to this very fact.

LOL that is some reasoning. What would we ever do without the Shimla agreement, praise Bhutto for reaffirming with Rajiv. If she hadn't gifted Siachen to India we would feel so inadequate. I'm sure capturing SIachen is humiliating for us.

 

[illusion8]

I want to respond only to point 3 of your post. Pakistan is the only country with which India has fought over 2 wars and thus the only country which can produce any considerable concern on Indian military build-up.

The reason why I said I understand their dilemma (concern)..as for the threat factor, the Indian sub continental history is full of wars for the last 5000 years - wars brought to our shores from all over the world.

The policy makers are making sure that That kind of scenario doesn't repeat itself in any point of time..nor do we get threatened by anyone.

 

[OrionHunter]

I'm telling them this in advance and also the subscribers of Ghazwa-e-Hind are not in a small number and they will eat likes of @OrionHunter for a snack.

Good one! Should I be scared?

Seriously, many posters here have stressed that their first priority in case of a war would be to protect Islam and the second priority would be to defend Pakistan. For example if there is a danger of war in Saudi Arabia as well as Pakistan, the priority would be to send troops to protect Mecca!

So I'm not sure what you're fighting for. Your country or Islam?

 

[MULUBJA]

Hillarious,

You point out some weakesses of Indian armed forces ignoring their strength and you start thinking that Pakistan has a chance to stand against india?

Atleast pst 4 wars have not proved that. India has grown by strength to sthrenght and pakisna is almost there where it used to be at the time of Kargil war.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes, please, play the poverty card. Something that will always hold your hand in your darkest of times!
India gareeb hai. Hum khush hain!

I was only quoting some guy.

And I never said "little brother". I wonder who's deluded now?
I can't say for the whole country, but I don't consider India a superpower. And I personally feel that there is no need for India to be that. But yes, if there is one thing holding us back, its poverty and its something we can't deny. The problems are vast and many.

And for the connection bit, I still have distant relatives in Pakistan who are Muslim Jatts and converted from Sikhism a long time ago. And I know a whole bunch of people in India who claim to have converted to Sikhism from Islam. Majority of people living in Punjab have the same race and descent. For a long time, our armies had soldiers who had once been related.

But I'm glad that you are proud of your distinctions!

At least your honest and not as deluded as your fellow countrymen. That connection you speak applies to less than 2% of the respective populations. By the same token Pakistanis would then be racially far closer to Iranians/Persians as a far larger proportion of Pakistanis share a lot more in common with our neighbours to our western borders.

 

[randomradio]

India is planning to spend $100-billion in next 10 years.

A small correction here. India's current defence budget is $39B. Even if it grows at a modest 10% ever year, the budget will cross $100B in the 10th year at current rates. Total defence expenditure on conventional arms in 10 years will be $700B, with roughly half of it for modernization, current rates.

India will have spent well over $100B in the next 3 years actually.

At the end of war Pakistan army is still holding Point 5353 a strategic point

And before the war also, PA was holding Point 5353. It is your territory.

 

[Viny]

LOL......Pakistan is most definitely not like a "little brother" to india. Please stop trying to somehow find a non-existent connection between my race and your people. It does not exist. Nor will it ever do so. indians are as similar to Pakistanis as a are sub-Saharan Africans.

So this is a Racial hatredness and not just India Pakistan enmity over borders

Don't know where you got the "filth and poverty" part from. No nation on earth is as filthy, poverty stricken and malnourished as indians are. In fact india has at least 33% of the world's most severely malnourished and extreme poor. That is one of the biggest human tragedies and catastrophes to ever befall mankind. There is no way any non-indians could ever emulate or envy that:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-third-of-worlds-poorest-says-World-Bank.html

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/2-3...-malnourished-Report/articleshow/39582261.cms

http://m.firstpost.com/business/eco...ne-that-shows-67-of-india-is-poor-993241.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/indias-malnutrition-shame/

The above is the closet thing to hell on earth.

India has about 18% of world population as of now. In 1950 almost 65% of the population was below poverty line, by 2012 it came to 22%. Unfortunately you are blinded by dark side, you can see only negative but not the positive part of it, no other country in last 50yrs have lifted so many people out of poverty line. I dont even want to compare same with Pakistan.

An envious person will only find everything bad in you and a righteous person will see the greatness.

And probably the Human Development Index will open up your eyes, pakistan is closest to Burma, Nigeria, Angola, Infact even Bangladesh and Nepal fairs much better. So forget worrying about us, worry about your filth.
Just for your reference or should is say showing Mirror to You.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/ranking.pdf

Yet you indians are deluded into thinking you are a superpower when the above is the reality over your race and nation. Your reality means that no indian is in any position to judge any other nation on earth.

We are not super power but we are working much better towards empowering every citizen of the country.
When you are busy in putting fire into racial causes, we are putting fire into growth engine and uplifting everyone in the country.

 

[AUz]

And before the war also, PA was holding Point 5353. It is your territory.

Wrong.

Dalu Nag, Saddle Ridge, and point 5353 were Indian territories/posts that Pakistan occupied in Kargil (and still holds).

Indians even tried to attack and retake some of these posts. But failed, offcourse.

Point 5353 is the highest point in Drass Sector---prime location for ground troops to direct artillery firepower at indian roadlinks, troop movements, and forces in drass sector.

However, it's a tactical advantage that wouldn't hold much importance in grand strategic scheme of Indo-Pak future war.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

So this is a Racial hatredness and not just India Pakistan enmity over borders



India has about 18% of world population as of now. In 1950 almost 65% of the population was below poverty line, by 2012 it came to 22%. Unfortunately you are blinded by dark side, you can see only negative but not the positive part of it, no other country in last 50yrs have lifted so many people out of poverty line. I dont even want to compare same with Pakistan.

An envious person will only find everything bad in you and a righteous person will see the greatness.

And probably the Human Development Index will open up your eyes, pakistan is closest to Burma, Nigeria, Angola, Infact even Bangladesh and Nepal fairs much better. So forget worrying about us, worry about your filth.
Just for your reference or should is say showing Mirror to You.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/ranking.pdf




We are not super power but we are working much better towards empowering every citizen of the country.
When you are busy in putting fire into racial causes, we are putting fire into growth engine and uplifting everyone in the country.

When you have at least 33% of the world's severely malnourished and extreme poor, when I look at the physical attributes of indian people, it is virtually impossible for me or any other non-indian to be envious of your kind even if I wanted to be.

Don't quite know the figures, but, quite possibly 65% of Indians in 1950 may be similar to 18% of Indians in 2012.

I have always said that the enmity between Pakistan and india has always been more racial rather than religious. That is the reality. That's why I have never ever said anything anti-hindu nor do I hate Hinduism. In Pakistan we have our own Hindu, Sikh, Christain & Jewish communities and they are just as Pakistani as I am.