India's Cold Start Is Too Hot

[MastanKhan]

Not really. Unless a major part of Pakistan is captured or if they are left defenseless they will use tac nukes. It has been mentioned time and again that use of any kind of nuc on Indian forces will lead to full scale retaliatory strikes.
Pakistani GHQ is acting on 2 points of logic :

1.Either the threat of tac nukes will not lead to a military response due to a terrorist strike and

2.Once TNW's are used, India will not want to escalate the issue and will absorb losses as the nuke will be fired from and on Pakistani land, so India will not be provocated enough to retaliate with its own arsenal.

Both these points dont stand water because:
1. The government will be compelled to react to any terrorist action otherwise they will lose credibility. So they will have to act, big or small is debatable. Most likely precision missile strikes

2.As there have been statements from officials that any attack on Indian Armed forces anywhere will be construed as an attack on the mainland and will be responded appropriately.

So the GHQ before authorizing strikes will have this to consider.

Malay,

My good man---the only time you taste death is when you are dying and beyond the point of no return----well---then it is a little too late to make amends----. You are still arguing about an appropriate response like most other indian colleagues here----what you are not listening to what I am saying is ---that it has gone way past that point----.

You are too far behind in your analysis and retaliatory strike options---we crossed that bridge awhile ago----from now onwards---it is point of no returns-----. You may strike back with whatever----that has never been challenged. I hope I made it clear.

I think my colleague jeypore understands me better.

 

[praveen]

from what I have understood the rawlpindi wants to glow real green from indian nukes then they are welcome to glow real green

 

[Rafael]

from what I have understood the rawlpindi wants to glow real green from indian nukes then they are welcome to glow real green

Not before Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and many others go ultra-green. And you too are welcome

 

[praveen]

Not before Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore and many others go ultra-green. And you too are welcome

It takes on an avg 9000 city busters to dent 20 percent of indias infrastructure.Your whole nuke arsenal is not even sufficient to nuke even mumbai neither you have money to sustain such an arsenal nor r&d nor the raw materials

 

[Contrarian]

Malay,

My good man---the only time you taste death is when you are dying and beyond the point of no return----well---then it is a little too late to make amends----. You are still arguing about an appropriate response like most other indian colleagues here----what you are not listening to what I am saying is ---that it has gone way past that point----.

You are too far behind in your analysis and retaliatory strike options---we crossed that bridge awhile ago----from now onwards---it is point of no returns-----. You may strike back with whatever----that has never been challenged. I hope I made it clear.

I think my colleague jeypore understands me better.

I understand exactly what you mean. India is outspending Pakistan by a huge margin. To keep up Pakistan has to spend more on defence and less on other sectors like industry and education and health. Which in turn further leads to an increasing gap between military expenditure of India and Pakistan. Exactly like USA & USSR.

That is surely happening. Along with that, India is also preparing for the war that may come when push comes to shove. How that extra money is being spent is what i am talking about. In what capabilities that money is being spent to counter what exactly is my point.

 

[Rafael]

It takes on an avg 9000 city busters to dent 20 percent of indias infrastructure.Your whole nuke arsenal is not even sufficient to nuke even mumbai neither you have money to sustain such an arsenal nor r&d nor the raw materials

If ever the time comes (pray that it does not) you'll see what we are capable of by sitting across the ruins of your cities.

 

[praveen]

If ever the time comes (pray that it does not) you'll see what we are capable of by sitting across the ruins of your cities.

Iam actually baying for blood since 26/11 and am yet to be satisfied by that bloodlust.Indians want blood and you know whose

 

[thinkingcap81]

Cold start in its original form is history----what pakistan has gone through in the last month---first sign of millitary strike from india will be met with a nuc retaliatory strike from pakistan----.

Malay,

My good man---the only time you taste death is when you are dying and beyond the point of no return----well---then it is a little too late to make amends----. You are still arguing about an appropriate response like most other indian colleagues here----what you are not listening to what I am saying is ---that it has gone way past that point----.

Not sure i understand what you mean, but lowering the nuclear threshold is an excessively stupid option.

You always live to fight another day. The old days of warrior traditions where one fights till the last man standing is long gone. Fights are increasingly economic and political in nature. Now military might is passive in nature. What place has a low-threshold nuke in this context? Nukes are a narrow-minded military oriented viewpoint.

Unless of course Nasr only says that it is for domestic consumption. We are looking to clear up the mess we are in. On the other hand it may be life as usual --- covert support to anti-India elements and for each exasperated Indian strategy lower the nuke threshold. We do not know what is happening behind the scenes.

There is no way other than reining the fanatic elements. Things will automatically fall in place. Proxy wars will continue but causing direct harm to innocent civilians is unacceptable. One may wax eloquent about Kashmir, but is now seems that certain things have been etched in stone. Both sides need to accept reality.

 

[Vinod2070]

Wonder why all these crazy ideas of nuclear annihilation of hundreds of millions find such currency with so many folks but doing the simple right things that can avoid the strikes from occurring sounds so horrible.

Its not really that difficult. Kill the JEM/LET/TP and sundry other terrorists to the last men. They put the life of every Pakistani in danger.

 

[mastaan]

If ever the time comes (pray that it does not) you'll see what we are capable of by sitting across the ruins of your cities.

I hope that we don't see that day too... And trust me, god forbid, if that day happes... No one will be able to by-sitting the ruins of the other neighbor... Neighborhood house fires have the distinct demented capability of taking the whole locality down, my friend!

Ruins of humanity will populate the streets in such an eventuality (In urdu... Kuch ghar tera jalega or kuch mera... Aur tabahi mei kise khushi mil sakti hei)... We should simply avoid such thoughts and discourage those, who even dare of think about it...

 

[thinkingcap81]

OTOH,

India is investing in capability to make its forces exponentially more mobile than they are now.
1. The sizes of the tenders for new APC/IFV's
2. The number of choppers of all kinds that are being planned.
3. The numbers and quality of tanks.
3. The number of utility vehicles
4. The number and type of transport planes

All in all, by 2020-25, the mobility of Indian Armed Forces as a whole would be a magnitude greater than what it is now. You know the requirements of IBG's. Massive mobility, firepower and fast reinforcement is essential to any credibility of the doctrine. You see those capabilities being built up very steadily.

All this also leads to the credence to the fact that the use of TNW's are being factored in. Dispersal and mobility of forces is what can overcome use of TNW.

One wonders what will be the geopolitical situation by 2020-25. If Pakistan continues the same policies and also cannot keep pace with the Indian economic expansion, then PA will by 2020-25 have no chance against IA. But eschewing the anti-India elements will render CS as a wasteful military expenditure.

If CS is no longer directed against Pakistan then a lot of the military hardware will be China centric.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Wonder why all these crazy ideas of nuclear annihilation of hundreds of millions find such currency with so many folks but doing the simple right things that can avoid the strikes from occurring sounds so horrible.

What is simple to us is not simple for them and what is simple for them is not so for us. It is difficult to swim against the tide and disabuse what you have been taught to believe --- and this is true for both.

The only difference is which and whose method is taken to be acceptable by the international community and which is more morally right in the present circumstances.

 

[Contrarian]

One wonders what will be the geopolitical situation by 2020-25. If Pakistan continues the same policies and also cannot keep pace with the Indian economic expansion, then PA will by 2020-25 have no chance against IA. But eschewing the anti-India elements will render CS as a wasteful military expenditure.

If CS is no longer directed against Pakistan then a lot of the military hardware will be China centric.

What Pakistan does is divert our budget unnecessarily into elements which would be of limited use against the real threat - China. So for example if we were at peace with Pakistan, you would not see many things - like half as many tanks required, etc. The money would go into the IAF and IN. A war with China will be fought mainly by these two services. Pakistan reduces our focus and effectiveness of military spending on China.

The one thing going great right now, is that once the roads and rail network along the Chinese border is built along with numerous ALG's and airbases. The transport fleet that we are really investing in will prove itself, by airlifting our Pakistan oriented platforms from central and western India to these areas FAST. So it truely becomes dual theater platforms.

 

[notorious_eagle]

What the US did in Osama Killing, interms of military action, did that not follow the Cold Start Protocols?

just a question....

No, where did you get this idea from? The Osama killing was a Special Ops, get in undetected, take out the enemy and get out. The Cold Start Doctrine means the crossing of your Armoured Formations inside Pakistan, literally using a hammer to tame Pakistan.

Very interesting analogy Mr. Khan, because of what you are saying, if it is true, then the winner is the higher economic value of the country. Keep in Mind, that US had only one advantage in the fight of cold war, and that was the Economic value compare to the USSR.....

Are you suggesting the same thing here?

Apples and Oranges, Pakistan is not matching India bullet for a bullet like the USSR did against the US. Pakistan knows that and will never let its defence budget get out of control. Even at this time when Pakistan is fighting a war, the defence budget accounts for close to 3% of the GDP.

 

[freed0m]

I think we need to move quickly with Indians on some sort of Longterm Peace agreements, Peace should prevail and it will be in the interest of people of both the countries.