India's Cold Start Is Too Hot

[MZUBAIR]

For the sake of simplicity, assume Indian Sukhois strike Muridke and blow it up and successfully return back.

Simultaneously, Indian warships impose a distant blockade and sink one or two of your forward warships.

India CBG's mobilize in small numbers but do not attack.

How will Pakistan react?

Do u think Pakistan will tell u wt they will do?

Do u know n ur think tanks that they know all we have ???

 

[SQ8]

come out of your dream world what 18 f16 will stop the whole iaf compare how much we spend on our pilots and how much you do dont stay in you fairy land 65 is long gone its the era of bvr in which indias has far more experience then you guys have just saying if su enters it wont go back is a silly joke you say this crap only to satisfy your down ego

Perhaps you too should stop your fantastic assumptions that the 18 block 52 are the only dangerous threat your air force will face.

In modern warfare, in near parity, air superiority being impossible, it has gone out of fashion.

It means total command of the air space.


The operational words are 'near parity'.


Yes, for a limited period of time, local favourable air situation is feasible, depending upon the assets available and the air threat envisaged.

???

No fly zones..
Iraq war..
Libya??

Air superiority no??

A local advantage works well when you are facing similar forces.. controlling and holding airspace to operate in safely..
Such as fighter sweeps and SEAD escorts to a strike mission..
or the much missed CAP's by the PAF during longewalla...

but air superiority is not a dead concept.
if one was to take the American's marketing ploy with their F-22.. even air dominance is a term.

Like 18 advanced F16s to counter over 160 (and soon to be 270) MKIs?


And right then and there.. The shoe fit! And the kings men had found cinderella!!



I don't know how many times I have to explain this to you pakistanis.. But using nukes is not a victory for you! Infact it would result in the devastation of your country of such mammoth proportions, it would quite literally be wiped off the map!

Very true.. however I feel bewildered at your confidence in your own .."healthy" survival.

 

[Manticore]

just want to point out an observation--

if india actually has the coldstart doctrine, isnt it a tactical blunder to surface it in the media, to allow pak army to anticipate , prepare and retaliate appropriately.


the other option is that indian generals are shrewd and have published a misleeding hotchpotch of a doctrine, to keep pa moving in circles, without any clue

 

[Whiplash]

To Counter MKI, we have F-16's.....

Like 18 advanced F16s to counter over 160 (and soon to be 270) MKIs?

Besides that MKI is not battle proven n its quite hard to think abt it especially NOV 08, when India tried to invade in Pakistan Airdpace using MKI's and sent back by PAF falcons.

And right then and there.. The shoe fit! And the kings men had found cinderella!!

Secondly from ur side every thing will not be used (Army) but from our side every thing will be used including nukes.

I don't know how many times I have to explain this to you pakistanis.. But using nukes is not a victory for you! Infact it would result in the devastation of your country of such mammoth proportions, it would quite literally be wiped off the map!

 

[Whiplash]

just want to point out an observation--

if india actually has the coldstart doctrine, isnt it a tactical blunder to surface it in the media, to allow pak army to anticipate , prepare and retaliate appropriately.


the other option is that indian generals are shrewd and have published a misleeding hotchpotch of a doctrine, to keep pa moving in circles, without any clue

You have to think of it from their point of view too. After the slow operation parakram.. They had to show the media what measures they've take. To calm down an otherwise restless nation

 

[IceCold]

come out of your dream world what 18 f16 will stop the whole iaf compare how much we spend on our pilots and how much you do dont stay in you fairy land 65 is long gone its the era of bvr in which indias has far more experience then you guys have just saying if su enters it wont go back is a silly joke you say this crap only to satisfy your down ego

And you need to come out of yours that Pakistan only has those 18 F-16s. And i never mentioned 65, care to atleast read the post carefully before hitting the reply button. I am talking on present situation. And the term is called flying hours and please dont get me started on PAF vs IAF flying hours. There is a whole thread on this topic but it will take some time to dig it up.

On second thought i think you should continue with this dream. All the better if your military establishment also thinks(dreams) on similar lines. By the way there is a military professional here from India, lets take his reviews if he too thinks on similar lines.

 

[Whiplash]

And you need to come out of yours that Pakistan only has those 18 F-16s.

On second thought i think you should continue with this dream. All the better if your military establishment also thinks(dreams) on similar lines. By the way there is a military professional here from India, lets take his reviews if he too thinks on similar lines.

Dude... All your other F16s are outdated. You need to stop overestimating your capabilities. They will be upgraded. But they aren't so far. Your JF 17 is as good as those outdated F 16s. 9Which btw.. the USF retired in the 90s)

 

[fatman17]

this note was written to me by a well respected indian member & a mil-professional a while back on INA's Cold Start Doctrine. however true or un-true his comments may be, PA's military planners cannot ignore this concept:

"fatman17,

There are contradictory and often conflicting views about the InA's Cold Start Doctrine even within the complexes of the GOI. Wikileaks or no Wikileaks, nobody seems to be in a hurry to endorse the Doctrine's Military effectiveness and rationale. The way the Doctrine has been possibly defined and marketed as a 72 hour Blitzkreig, bypassing the PA's heavy fortifications to deliver a punitive punch against a future 26/11 type incident has taken the imagination of many in the Govt as also of the academics and the common man, Fact remains, there are numerous office heads in the GoI's MoD and else where, who confidently opine that the Indian forces would have significant problems consolidating initial gains aquired, due to possibly superior firepower and tactics, mainly due to logistical difficulties and slow reinforcement. They have set forth in details, the various resource challenges that the InA would have to overcome, challenges that range from road and rail transportation to sundry logictics...ammo supply etc. In addition, Cold Start's reliance on swift mobile advance would have to contend with a large number of built up populated areas in Pakistan that the InA did not have to face in 1971, the last time it advanced in force into Pakistani Punjab and Sindh. You and I may differ, but as of now, CS doesn't not seem to have the life it requires.

regards,"

needless to say, I respect his view!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

and who are you to know the scale at which CS would unfold in future, what kind of opportunity India will seek and how it be able to conduct such strikes will decide the scale, not you and me. What was so assuring about India that it would never open another front during kargil?
Pakistani underestimating India is not something new but a facility for sure.

It was always on the cards to enlarge the war.

It was political compulsions wherein the NDA Govt would then have the coffers near empty and would have had nothing to show the Indian public apart from the War. And it was their first show at governance and so they had to show something to the Indian public to be voted back in power.

Wars are temporary euphoria.

An empty stomach is permanent.

Notwithstanding, what is important to note is that the Indian economy has a longer sustenance power on keeping a war active than Pakistan.

No international power would like Pakistan to keel over since notwithstanding all the love for India, the international powers do not want another China on the rise!!

And India has been quite consistent in having an independent streak in its foreign policy.

When CSD will die the other contingencies will kick in straight away. Indian IBG will not move into Pakistani territory by just sacrificing a goat head to lord almighty. The decision is going to be political and political class will hide in special bunkers before first wave of IBG ransack fences.

The problem with many is that they have not understood the concept and the geopolitical compulsions that promote this concept.

Suffice it to say is one must let issues remain as it is gleaned from the open sources.

Therefore, one has to allow all to conjecture as they wish.

Indian COAS takes orders from GoI. If GoI could have asked him to do so then there was going back, he did this post Parliament attack. BTW Musharah has categorically opened his big mouth that he has briefed about all contingencies in place to Nawaj Sharif; ''air force and navy is on alert and there is nothing from Indian side happening alarming on these fronts''.

That is the crux which quasi democracies do not understand.

The Army is not supreme in democracies that respect democratic institutions.

 

[Markus]

Hit the enemy where it hurts them the most.

Pakistani navy is the weakest link, go after them.

Indian navy's role should be increased in the CS doctrine from mere being a support force to actually being a lead force.

 

[SEAL]

CSD is not about 200 SU-30MKI vs 18 F-16, the main objective of CSD is limited war without Nukes and with NASR missile test CSD is failed because it can escalate Nuclear war.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Perhaps you too should stop your fantastic assumptions that the 18 block 52 are the only dangerous threat your air force will face.



???

No fly zones..
Iraq war..
Libya??

Air superiority no??

A local advantage works well when you are facing similar forces.. controlling and holding airspace to operate in safely..
Such as fighter sweeps and SEAD escorts to a strike mission..
or the much missed CAP's by the PAF during longewalla...

but air superiority is not a dead concept.
if one was to take the American's marketing ploy with their F-22.. even air dominance is a term.



Very true.. however I feel bewildered at your confidence in your own .."healthy" survival.

The operative word was 'near parity'.

US vs Iraq near parity?

If anyone would have to attack Burkina Faso, then there would be air superiority ab initio!

Now if the US were to attack China, would there be air superiority?

Therefore, the operative word remains 'near parity' in the sub continent.

I read in some post that Pakistan was on network centric operations!

I do hope that the person understands the whole gamut of the concept!

The problem one faces is that if one see a speck in the sky it becomes -

Is it a bird?

is it an aircraft?

No, it is superman!!

Now try justifying to an avid Superman fan!

 

[Whiplash]

CSD is not about 200 SU-30MKI vs 18 F-16, the main objective of CSD is limited war without Nukes and with NASR missile test CSD is failed because it can escalate Nuclear war.

I promise you that 60 km rocket of yours can have absolutely no effect on CSs failure

 

[Whiplash]

Very true.. however I feel bewildered at your confidence in your own .."healthy" survival.

I have no such confidence sir! But I'm not the one boasting about nukes here! This is how the conversation seems to keep going on this website!

Indian: Air superiority!
Pakistani: NUKES!!!

Indian: naval dominance
Pakistani: NUKES!!!

Indian: Completely outnumbered armour
Pakistani: NUKES!!!

 

[Veeru]

What if India doesn't use it army??

Just Indian Air force strikes with SU 30 MKI + Brahmos and uses electronic warfare + EMPs excessively then Indian Navy does its job.