Indians To Deploy Apaches on Pakistan Border

[In arduis fidelis]

For all those who think Apaches are invincible to cheap Shoulder launched MANPADs.

 

[Crystal-Clear]

houthis shotdown apache with a simple manpad .
.
.
we just need to mass produce manpad like allied forces did with bazooka and germans did with Panzerfaust .

 

[khail007]

It's a lethal system. Without attaining local air dominance, Apacahe's will reek havoc on our ground units.

Exactly ... our military planners should give Apaches a serious consideration as weapon system and it's capabilities and to integrate a countermeasures against Apaches in military training/exercises.

It's by far the best weapons system out there in its domain.

Agreed, no doubts but not in capable hands; still we have to introduce some anti-venom for Apache system.

 

[airomerix]

For all those who think Apaches are invincible to cheap Shoulder launched MANPADs.View attachment 599303

This is Apache's operating on a rocky terrain with militants hiding inside the caves.

On an average day, the battlefield of Pakistan Army will be either Lahore, Rajhastan or Fort Abbas area. it is plain and flat. Apache's will not have to come any closer.

This is before we get to the notion of tanks and armour fighting vehicles. Apache retains the capability to fire hellfire from a BVR distance. Hence, I said earlier, they need to be shot out of the sky by either SAMs or fighters.

 

[Jäger]

not surprised, just makes me wonder if PA will deploy their future T-129s to the border as well to counter this move

 

[Yaseen1]

apachies were downed by houthis in yemen so we can also shot down them when pilots are indians who are not as skilled /trained like u.s who have much experience and better training

when indian pilots are flying them they are not much lethal as they lost su30 at bvr range and downed their own helicopter on 27 feb

Let's not kid ourselves.

It's a lethal system. Without attaining local air dominance, Apacahe's will reek havoc on our ground units.

It's by far the best weapons system out there in its domain.

india has 8 apaches and not in hundreds like u.s so we can easily defeat them with our manpads

houthis shotdown apache with a simple manpad .
.
.
we just need to mass produce manpad like allied forces did with bazooka and germans did with Panzerfaust .

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Apaches will be flying low, tree top level, .. ground cluter will make it hard to hit them ... if pakistan mechanized and infantry units are not equipped with short ranfr manpads, it can be difficult to deal with them ..
US has strategic relation with India, they can buy whatever is on the shelf .. there are few exceptions...

i dont know the difference between us and indian longbows.. will look at it

On tree top level small anti aircraft weapons can easily target them.

Just one question:
What happened to Indian helicopters in kagil war?

 

[LeGenD]

AH-64E Apache is very well equipped for numerous battlefield related situations.

Key AH-64E Apache Longbow sensors include the Lockheed Martin/Northrop Grumman (Longbow LLC) AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radar, which has a very low probability of intercept. The radar automatically searches, detects, locates, classifies, and prioritizes fixed and moving targets on land, see and in the air in all weather environments and battlefield conditions. To date nearly 400 radars have been sold. Also, the AH-64E is equipped with M-TADS/PNVS (Lockheed Martin Arrowhead package), which is an advanced electro-optical fire control and sensor system. Pilots use the system for target acquisition and situational awareness. According to Lockheed Martin, M-TADS/PNVS improves system performance by over 150%, reliability increases more than 150% while maintenance actions are reduced by 60% (compared to the older TADS/PNVS system). Other sensors used on the AH-64E are the AN/APR-39 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) from Northrop Grumman, the BAE Systems AN/APX-123(V)5 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder, the AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI) from Lockheed Martin, and the AN/AVR-2B(V) Laser Warning System (LWS) from Goodrich (now UTAS) (AH-64E Block III only - AH-64A/D use the AN/AVR-2A). Countermeasures on the AH-64E include the Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)1 countermeasures set and the the Exelis AN/ALQ-136(V)2 radar pulse jammer.

Link: http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/AH-64-Apache-Longbow.html

On tree top level small anti aircraft weapons can easily target them.

Just one question:
What happened to Indian helicopters in kagil war?

Pakistani troops (Boulder checkpost) used AA guns in Salala to no effect. But then those were American gunships and pilots.

Recalling: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/honoring-the-heros-of-salala.410609/#post-7930214

 

[Trango Towers]

Let's not kid ourselves.

It's a lethal system. Without attaining local air dominance, Apacahe's will reek havoc on our ground units.

It's by far the best weapons system out there in its domain.

Yes...Pakistan's military is not asleep

This is Apache's operating on a rocky terrain with militants hiding inside the caves.

On an average day, the battlefield of Pakistan Army will be either Lahore, Rajhastan or Fort Abbas area. it is plain and flat. Apache's will not have to come any closer.

This is before we get to the notion of tanks and armour fighting vehicles. Apache retains the capability to fire hellfire from a BVR distance. Hence, I said earlier, they need to be shot out of the sky by either SAMs or fighters.

Hellfire BVR...
That's a good one

 

[maverick1977]

AH-64E Apache is very well equipped for numerous battlefield related situations.

Key AH-64E Apache Longbow sensors include the Lockheed Martin/Northrop Grumman (Longbow LLC) AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radar, which has a very low probability of intercept. The radar automatically searches, detects, locates, classifies, and prioritizes fixed and moving targets on land, see and in the air in all weather environments and battlefield conditions. To date nearly 400 radars have been sold. Also, the AH-64E is equipped with M-TADS/PNVS (Lockheed Martin Arrowhead package), which is an advanced electro-optical fire control and sensor system. Pilots use the system for target acquisition and situational awareness. According to Lockheed Martin, M-TADS/PNVS improves system performance by over 150%, reliability increases more than 150% while maintenance actions are reduced by 60% (compared to the older TADS/PNVS system). Other sensors used on the AH-64E are the AN/APR-39 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) from Northrop Grumman, the BAE Systems AN/APX-123(V)5 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder, the AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI) from Lockheed Martin, and the AN/AVR-2B(V) Laser Warning System (LWS) from Goodrich (now UTAS) (AH-64E Block III only - AH-64A/D use the AN/AVR-2A). Countermeasures on the AH-64E include the Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)1 countermeasures set and the the Exelis AN/ALQ-136(V)2 radar pulse jammer.

Link: http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/AH-64-Apache-Longbow.html


Pakistani troops (Boulder checkpost) used AA guns in Salala to no effect. But then those were American gunships and pilots.

Recalling: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/honoring-the-heros-of-salala.410609/#post-7930214

there was only one 12.7mm anti aircraft gun and two soldiers died manning it before the guncwas destroyed .. aodiers were mowed by gunships and spectre c130 not by fighter aircrafts .. did any one survive on salala post ? 28 shaheed and injured or it was made aure no one survived to tell the tale ? did post comm guy requested for air support ?

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

AH-64E Apache is very well equipped for numerous battlefield related situations.

Key AH-64E Apache Longbow sensors include the Lockheed Martin/Northrop Grumman (Longbow LLC) AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radar, which has a very low probability of intercept. The radar automatically searches, detects, locates, classifies, and prioritizes fixed and moving targets on land, see and in the air in all weather environments and battlefield conditions. To date nearly 400 radars have been sold. Also, the AH-64E is equipped with M-TADS/PNVS (Lockheed Martin Arrowhead package), which is an advanced electro-optical fire control and sensor system. Pilots use the system for target acquisition and situational awareness. According to Lockheed Martin, M-TADS/PNVS improves system performance by over 150%, reliability increases more than 150% while maintenance actions are reduced by 60% (compared to the older TADS/PNVS system). Other sensors used on the AH-64E are the AN/APR-39 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) from Northrop Grumman, the BAE Systems AN/APX-123(V)5 Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) transponder, the AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI) from Lockheed Martin, and the AN/AVR-2B(V) Laser Warning System (LWS) from Goodrich (now UTAS) (AH-64E Block III only - AH-64A/D use the AN/AVR-2A). Countermeasures on the AH-64E include the Exelis AN/ALQ-211(V)1 countermeasures set and the the Exelis AN/ALQ-136(V)2 radar pulse jammer.

Link: http://www.fi-aeroweb.com/Defense/AH-64-Apache-Longbow.html


Pakistani troops (Boulder checkpost) used AA guns in Salala to no effect. But then those were American gunships and pilots.

Recalling: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/honoring-the-heros-of-salala.410609/#post-7930214

No. Most of our troops were sleeping and they didn't get a chance to use the gun.
But u didn't answer my question. Look like u don't want to discuss Indian army and want to cover ur failures with salala attack.
The answer to every question is salala.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

According to both valuable members @Inception-06 and @Gryphon when asked how would we counter Indian Apaches

Apache can be engaged by Army Air Defence (Radar controlled guns, MANPADS, ESHORADS) and Army Aviation (attack helos).

A well organised and structure used ground air defence, like ours, can bring the Hell on the Apaches by using the tactical right deployment and surprise of 12.7.mm and Manpads, communication between all units during air alert, rightly detection by radar and human observers, correctly identification between friends and foe, full fire clearance for all ground weapons, including all MG-3 and mounted 12.7mm of Tanks and APC and air defence weapons, heavy AA guns 37mm and 57mm can build up a deadly air defence shield which no Indian Pilot would like to face at day and night, all attack Helicopter operations were successful against a badly organized military and by absolutely air dominance, which India doesn't have. Indian Apaches will, of course, inflict loses to us, but will pay an equal or heavier price, I can guarantee it you, because I was trained to defend my position against air attacks especially against Helicopters, and fill these task with a combination of MG-3 and Manpads. We (German Army) didn't have the luxury of mass-produced available 12.7mm AA guns and 37mmAA guns like Pakistan Army, the Flakpanzer Gepard (aa gun tank, like soviet shilka), was reserved for more important units like Tanks and other formation. We as the simple Soldiers had to fight with less, the Pakistan Army has in these case at a unit level more. Give me the task and your equipment and I promise you I will and can bring down Indian Apaches! Inshallah!

During the ten years between 1962 to 1973, US Air Forces lost over 2,000 aircraft: the majority to Anti Aircraft Artillery.

View attachment 593637

A picture of our war History during Kargil war:

@Signalian @HRK @Gryphon

View attachment 593643
View attachment 593644

do you really believe we will allow them to fire against us from 8km distance and will not be able to disturb and outmanoeuvre their fire distance, even if so, yes we will lose units through 8km distance, but we will reach them with our weapons because it's not a pink ponk or static battle, but a mobile warfare, we are mobile and masters in camouflaging!

"Fire and movement, or fire and manoeuvre, is the basic modern military low-level unit tactic used to manoeuvre on the battlefield in the presence of the enemy, especially when under fire. It involves heavy use of all available cover, and highly-coordinated exchanges of rapid movement by some elements of the squad or platoon while other elements cover this movement with suppression fire. It is used both to advance on enemy positions as part of an attack, or withdrawal from current positions under attack by the enemy. The moving and supporting (suppressing) elements may be teams or individuals, and may quickly and continuously exchange roles until the entire unit completes the manoeuvre objective. Some members will specialize more in different roles within fire and movement as fits their range, equipment, terrain, and ability to manoeuvre. This is usually applied to standard infantry tactics, but forms of this are also used with armoured fighting vehicles or when supported by artillery or air power."

 

[Kakaspai]

View attachment 599251

its painful to read, but Apaches picked pakistani troops in salala like animals ..

With indians as drivers

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-army-air-defence-corps-formation-structure-weapons.644642/

This thread is really helpful if u want to know how Apaches will be countered

 

[LeGenD]

No. Most of our troops were sleeping and they didn't get a chance to use the gun.
But u didn't answer my question. Look like u don't want to discuss Indian army and want to cover ur failures with salala attack.
The answer to every question is salala.

Troops are not sleeping like that. They have shifts; some are on guard while others take a nap at an FOB or checkpost.

I am just highlighting that Apache gunships are not to be underestimated. Just because Indians are getting them, do not make them less potent. Americans offer training and input in relation to their products to any customer including Pakistan and India.

This thought that WE will be prepared for any eventuality from India needs to be put to rest if Americans start uplifting Indian defenses over the period of time. WE need to build our own relations and must have access to high-end Western technologies to counter India in the future.