Indian Tejas jet's success leaves Western arms contractors worried

[nair]

Stay well.

Welcome back chief.....

 

[muhammadali233]

Sorry, but SL is not interested in JF-17/FC-1 any more.

SL would like to buy aircraft from a country which previuolsy supplied them with LTTE.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Than kindly quote me.

@Irfan Baloch

It is just possible that the phrase above might have been intended to be an invitation to tag him.

That's where expired (strike that) retired BJP leaders go! I thought you would catch the reference

I was precisely afraid that was what you meant.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

There are many of us who will look forward to it, especially after your cryptic comment. Your earlier comments made very negative reading, and I look forward to a balanced post of the sort that I have come to expect from you.

stop embarrassing me please.
all such posts were done in light jest. claims like these make me cringe when I see videos and articles about Pakistani claims etc.

but.. whats in store for the members club is worth the treat. all ill will and complaints will wash away .. just like when your loved ones turn up eventually among the crowd after hours of waiting.

 

[Joe Shearer]

stop embarrassing me please.
all such posts were done in light jest. claims like these make me cringe when I see videos and articles about Pakistani claims etc.

but.. whats in store for the members club is worth the treat. all ill will and complaints will wash away .. just like when your loved ones turn up eventually among the crowd after hours of waiting.

THAT made me feel a whole lot better. You have to make allowances for lonely, crabby curmudgeons.

About the videos and articles, I can say with a clean conscience that I have never criticised an entire country, policies perhaps, individual politicians, perhaps, but never the kind of sweeping generalisation that some of my countrymen so deeply damage our reputation by doing. Those videos and articles are horrid, and I abhor them.

Really looking forward to the post. Don't forget to "quote" (=tag) me.

Best.

 

[nair]

but.. whats in store for the members club is worth the treat. all ill will and complaints will wash away .. just like when your loved ones turn up eventually among the crowd after hours of waiting.

Suspense????

 

[my2cents]

I worked for manufacturing organization for 10 years I know how things worked oh in your case google can make you champion but in reality facts are when we see 4


Well congrats it only take you guys 30+ years

It is easy to ridicule others. What has your Suparco achieved in 40+ years in existence.

I have been to one of the private companies MTAR listed in Hyderabad section. Here is the excerpt you may find interesting....

Q&A: P Ravinder Reddy, Chairman, MTAR Technologies Pvt Ltd

Having been a supplier to the Indian defence and aerospace sectors for the past four decades, MTAR Technologies Private Limited, which fabricates precision components and complex engine systems, is one of the very few Indian companies that can claim to have the capability to build an entire nuclear reactor on its own. P Ravinder Reddy, chairman of the Hyderabad-based company, which is now focusing more on global opportunities, speaks to B Dasarath Reddy. Edited excerpts:

What is your vision for the future of the company?
With expertise and experience acquired in all the cutting edge product technology areas in the defence, aerospace and energy sectors, we now wish to emerge as one of the biggest engineering companies in the country in the next four-to-five years. Plans are afoot in this direction in anticipation of orders from both domestic and global companies to drive growth to reach that level.

What products and systems has your company manufactured or built partly or fully?
We have handled the design and development of missile systems for the DRDO organisations. We have built core structures for Indian satellites. We have assembled aerospace engines such as liquid propellant Vikas and Cryogenic engines for the PSLV, GSLV and Chandrayan satellite launch vehicles. We have also contributed to the development of Prithvi and Akash missiles, besides making aircraft components used by Boeing and Airbus. Above all, the company has fabricated almost all the components that are required to build a nuclear reactor. In fact, we are now in a position to build a pressurised heavy water reactor (PHWR).

The capability to build a nuclear reactor is no small achievement for a medium-size company. What next?
We want to build a similar capability in aircraft engine manufacturing as well. We are willing to invest Rs 400 crore to make light combat aircraft engines, which cost around Rs 20 crore each, if we see a business opportunity to the tune of Rs 5,000 crore coming our way over a period of time. We have been producing aircraft components, hitherto imported from countries like Israel, for Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

How are government policies helping industry?
Though the defence ministry's offset policy is expected to provide substantial business opportunities for us, the procurement policy of defence organisations is not at all conducive to the growth of the SME sector. Defence organisations change vendors by simply following the L1 (lowest bidder) criterion every year. High-precision engineering jobs are a low-volume business. The company that loses the contract also loses the opportunity to grow and the years of toil in achieving technical expertise go waste. The new vendor who gets the contract also faces the same situation. This is not the case with global companies, which enter into three-to-five-year contracts with their vendors.

Are you looking at global opportunities?
We have already been supplying components to energy and oil companies in Europe and elsewhere. The scope of working with MNCs is growing on account of the offset policy. I think the company's export business will reach Rs 100 crore soon. I hope to see exports contributing 70 per cent of our business in the near term. Then, we would expect to achieve a turnover of Rs 500 crore in the next two-to-three years.

 

[Windjammer]

Are you seriously addressing the resident blowhard about the quality of his posts? At least now after being rudely set down by one of the moderators he has stopped beginning his posts with "I was just on the line with...(fill in any important sounding military source)".

Please salute.

We are addressing the PDF equivalent of the guy in the red hat.

They say a good teacher doesn't neccesary makes a good expert alas I'm least surprised by your comments but then if you are an addict of red hat, then it shouldn't come as a surprise either.
And i would love to know which moderator ever questioned or doubted my source(s)....but then I'm not the one who has to resort to name calling just to prove his worth. Thank you.

 

[Joe Shearer]

They say a good teacher doesn't neccesary makes a good expert alas I'm least surprised by your comments but then if you are an addict of red hat, then it shouldn't come as a surprise either.
And i would love to know which moderator ever questioned or doubted my source(s)....but then I'm not the one who has to resort to name calling just to prove his worth. Thank you.

You're welcome.

A good teacher necessarily knows her/his fundamentals. One of them that I can share with you gladly is that necessary has one 'c' and two 's's.

Another fundamental matter that you might like to recall is that I am here as an expert, with as much if not closer (managerial) information and knowledge about the subject in question as my former part-colleague from HAL. So the question of my good teaching is irrelevant, although kind words are always welcome.

A third fundamental matter is that you should really not rue my comments, or express surprise about them, because I have been consistent about them for a very, very long time now.

A fourth fundamental matter is that just as Pakistani posts refer to Bharat Rakshak in a mocking tone, as they well might, my reference to your role model is likewise mocking. Of course, I admit that certain students are challenged by subtlety.

A fifth fundamental matter is that if I were to don my teaching hat for a second, my old friend Usman Sadozai once advised all of us in the group (some other group) 'authorities ka gand maarte nahin'. I agree that you may find it difficult to spotlight this particular dismissal among your other honours, but then, curating your insults and put-downs is your problem.

A sixth fundamental matter is that people seem to appreciate me more than you in spite of your having twice the number of posts. If you think name-calling proves anyone's worth, perhaps you should change to calling names; you aren't doing very well as you are.

 

[my2cents]

Firstly no one is ridiculing the aircraft as it yet has to enter and prove it's operational capabilities with squadron service, however it's the manner and mentality of Indian members and public that leaves much to be desired and please don't just blame shoddy journalism for this since it's only performing it's duties by feeding the Indian habits.
True that ISRO has made strides in it's field but that doesn't mean this was also a priority for Pakistan. Each country has it's own ambitions and goals. Just yesterday i was reading that in the last month alone, 116 Indian farmers committed suicide, how many died in Pakistan...Zilch.....
You see there are countries who go about quietly doing their business and there are those who like to make a song and dance about every minute detail. India seems one of those as it seems to demonstrate this at every opportunity, be it in some domestic product an international exercise or dealing with neighbours, Indian tend to box above weight only to be ridiculed and humiliated afterwards. Coming back to the subject, it's been in making for three decades, it hasn't even entered the squadron service yet, but we never hear the end of it, from being next generation to becoming a major player in the market. After it's first appearance at a second tier air show, you guys started chest thumping and ridiculing the JF-17....which has appeared at some half dozen real air shows. You see India in some ways reminds me of North Korea, who start gloating every time they turn a screw and make believe they have conquered the universe.

That reminds me of your water car engineer Waqas something. How that was over blown by your media and your politicians. You guys had been ridiculed by one and all. Before that there was the indigenous made gyrocopter episode.
My point being we never fail to amuse each others by our shoddy reporters who brim with pride and zeal will bring any meaningful or non meaningful news to their least common denominator. In this case the reporter went overboard with sheer patriotic zeal.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Windjammer

You should start a Thread titled " Pakistan's TECHNOLOGICAL and INDUSTRIAL
successes and achievements"

Let us Indians know what they really are

You're welcome.

A good teacher necessarily knows her/his fundamentals. One of them that I can share with you gladly is that necessary has one 'c' and two 's's.

Another fundamental matter that you might like to recall is that I am here as an expert, with as much if not closer (managerial) information and knowledge about the subject in question as my former part-colleague from HAL. So the question of my good teaching is irrelevant, although kind words are always welcome.

A third fundamental matter is that you should really not rue my comments, or express surprise about them, because I have been consistent about them for a very, very long time now.

A fourth fundamental matter is that just as Pakistani posts refer to Bharat Rakshak in a mocking tone, as they well might, my reference to your role model is likewise mocking. Of course, I admit that certain students are challenged by subtlety.

A fifth fundamental matter is that if I were to don my teaching hat for a second, my old friend Usman Sadozai once advised all of us in the group (some other group) 'authorities ka gand maarte nahin'. I agree that you may find it difficult to spotlight this particular dismissal among your other honours, but then, curating your insults and put-downs is your problem.

A sixth fundamental matter is that people seem to appreciate me more than you in spite of your having twice the number of posts. If you think name-calling proves anyone's worth, perhaps you should change to calling names; you aren't doing very well as you are.

He wont understand any of this ; it is a bouncer for him

Well said .. This is the harsh reality which many including me miss out on. Your point about varying priorities and how we differently address the issues including social welfare with regards to plight of farmers hits close to home.

Too often we are busy throwing stones at each other while our own houses burn and while you selectively single out Indians it doesn't make this fact any less true.

So should we stop investing in Science and Technology ; Research and Development
till the last poor man in India comes out of poverty

The question here is NOT about India's other socio economic problems

It is about the massive jealousy that breeds in their hearts seeing
India's technological successes in various fields

SO what they do is pick out LCA ; Ahh finally there is one Technological weakness
available to to belittle India

And while they have absolutely NO technological and industrial
achievements to boast about

 

[anant_s]

we know what it exactly is, and have very little qualms about what it can and cannot do

Sir, there is an inherent problem that goes in public discussion, most people either having half baked knowledge and/or false sense of pride overtaking everything else.
A lot of discussion especially in 'v/s' threads, turn ugly from first reply onwards and there is little, if any, meaningful.
Any reader who has spent some time on a forum like this can easily make out facts and judge the comments. Alas this isn't what is happening.
PS: Last December, local industrial manufacturers association in my locality, asked me to judge a competition, with participation from Management and Engineering under graduate students, with topic of Recent Achievement in field of Science and Engineering in India.
Almost all teams resorted to making comparisons with either Pakistan or China.
The worrisome part was that these comparisons evoked a lot of appreciation, my fellow judges included.
My worry is that there used be a time when, one was encouraged to excel on his own and not make comparison with others. To me this is a fundamental point of a persons intellectual growth, but it looks something strange is going on in either todays learning ecosystem, young men and women are exposed to or some sort of mental regression happening. Similar behaviour is evident in thrends here at PDF too.
@Joe Shearer @nair @waz @WAJsal @Irfan Baloch

 

[sathya]

Sir, there is an inherent problem that goes in public discussion, most people either having half baked knowledge and/or false sense of pride overtaking everything else.
A lot of discussion especially in 'v/s' threads, turn ugly from first reply onwards and there is little, if any, meaningful.
Any reader who has spent some time on a forum like this can easily make out facts and judge the comments. Alas this isn't what is happening.
PS: Last December, local industrial manufacturers association in my locality, asked me to judge a competition, with participation from Management and Engineering under graduate students, with topic of Recent Achievement in field of Science and Engineering in India.
Almost all teams resorted to making comparisons with either Pakistan or China.
The worrisome part was that these comparisons evoked a lot of appreciation, my fellow judges included.
My worry is that there used be a time when, one was encouraged to excel on his own and not make comparison with others. To me this is a fundamental point of a persons intellectual growth, but it looks something strange is going on in either todays learning ecosystem, young men and women are exposed to or some sort of mental regression happening. Similar behaviour is evident in thrends here at PDF too.
@Joe Shearer @nair @waz @WAJsal @Irfan Baloch

I feel , Right kind of comparison is needed to stay contemporary ..

 

[ultron]

Without engines, LCA is not entirely indigenous.

 

[SQ8]

Without engines, LCA is not entirely indigenous.

It is nowhere indigenous in the way its claimed. Its a combination of various know hows being transplanted to India in an attempt to bolster her aircraft design fundamentals. The Tejas is as indigenous as the first swept wing aircraft in the US was; all borrowed technologies from Germany and the UK to get things to work for itself.


But in its own right, it has helped India learn a lot from its contributing nations and will help in the next project.. the Tejas however, as fine a platform as it is; has been mucked up.