Indian soldiers in Singapore revolt in support of the Turks

[Samandri]

That 14% ratio is from Military Inc nonsense by army hating Ayesha Siddiqa and lame stats she claimed she got in early 2000s...and herself claims tht the recruitments were made in KPK and Baluchistan...

I can give you a personal ex... my fathers parent regiment itself has 40% Pashtuns... 10% Sindhis n Baluchistan and rest are Kashmiris n Punjabis... or the Fact that despite the lames stats you pulled there have been several Pashtun COAS....

It has been us Baluch who have been the least interested in joining the armed forces due to our lazy and unruly nature (which itself is changing.... over 20k Baluch have joined in the last 3-4 years alone...

And now the campaign to recruit soldiers from FATA...

Dont pull out stats and guesses out of your ***. British records and archives are available in libraries.

About the unruly and troublesome nature of Balochs, that would apply mostly on marris and to some extent on bugtis , so were their Pashtun neighbors in Baluchistan. You say that Balochs were never colonized, the fact is bulk of Baloch territory was under three princely states , in that sense Swat , Dir, Amb , Chitral princely states etc were also not colonized. And I dont recall British recruited soldiers from princely states.
Kalat was subjugated in 1839 operation of British in which khan of kalat was killed and his independence ended, that too was done in preparation for invading Afghanistan. A big portion of India from Bengal to Baluchistan was not under direct rule of British, there were more than 500 princely states.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dont pull out stats and guesses out of your ***. British records and archives are available in libraries.

About the unruly and troublesome nature of Balochs, that would apply mostly on marris and to some extent on bugtis , so were their Pashtun neighbors in Baluchistan. You say that Balochs were never colonized, the fact is bulk of Baloch territory was under three princely states , in that sense Swat , Dir, Amb , Chitral princely states etc were also not colonized. And I dont recall British recruited soldiers from princely states.
Kalat was subjugated in 1839 operation of British in which khan of kalat was killed and his independence ended, that too was done in preparation for invading Afghanistan. A big portion of India from Bengal to Baluchistan was not under direct rule of British, there were more than 500 princely states.

Baluchistan was never a part of india... officially speaking... do go through the treaty between the Baluch and the British... thats the same treaty anti Pak elements prop up...

 

[Samandri]

Baluchistan was never a part of india... officially speaking... do go through the treaty between the Baluch and the British... thats the same treaty anti Pak elements prop up...

So was the case with more than 500 princely states, treaties like that place with them. Khan of kalat , lasbela etc were namak-khwar of farangis like all royalties of princely states. Balochs of Chaghai, Kohlu, Bugti etc were under direct rule of British, administered from quetta and they form big portion of balochs. . If Kalat was a state, Brahuis should boast about it , not balochs.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So was the case with more than 500 princely states, treaties like that place with them. Khan of kalat , lasbela etc were namak-khwar of farangis like all royalties of princely states. Balochs of Chaghai, Kohlu, Bugti etc were under direct rule of British, administered from quetta and they form big portion of balochs. . If Kalat was a state, Brahuis should boast about it , not balochs.

Kalat was the stronger state.. the other states were relatively weaker and hence lead by the khanate of kalat... even the british were attacked and harassed in the areas that were under their rule.. go through british army sites and read about the sword wielding fanatics who used to attack their garrisons...

 

[FaujHistorian]

You thought tens of thousands of Pashtuns were recruiting in British army?. The soldiers were mostly Punjabi musalman , Sikhs and Gurkhas. Pashtuns are mentioned along with them as they were hyped people. The statistics and records, details are available from British sources. The most celebrated and famed fighting unit from Pashtuns, was khyber rifles, and that was irregular unit.I have already mentioned about 40th Pathans which was just a battalion. You can say Pashtuns mostly served in irregular militias and scouts, like kurram militia, khyber rifles, tochi scouts, zhob scouts etc.

Even today some people, including you, think that 40% of Pak army consist of pashtuns, the fact is they are just 14% (It is better ratio than was in the British indian army).

it will be wrong to lump all Pashtuns as one large group from military history pov

Same way it will be wrong to lump all Punjabis into one large group from military pov

Both KP (back then Frontier) and Punjab had specific areas that produced young men that were and are fit for a modern military.

Please note I am talking about regular military units and not militia and khasadars.

Pashtun soldiers in British and now Pak army mostly came from Peshawar and Charsaddah area.
Punjabi soldiers came from Northern Punjab including Pothohar, Pindi, Jehlum, Gujrat, Gujranwala and Lahore.

South Punjab and FATA area didn't produce disciplined young men so they were not recruited in large numbers.


Modern wars are much more than just picking up a gun and shooting. It is a profession that needs smart men with cool head as much as bravery.

This is why you need unique temperament in men who can fight these wars.

And there are very few regions around the world that produce such men.

Very few areas.

 

[Samandri]

Kalat was the stronger state.. the other states were relatively weaker and hence lead by the khanate of kalat... even the british were attacked and harassed in the areas that were under their rule.. go through british army sites and read about the sword wielding fanatics who used to attack their garrisons...

In your dreams perhaps, kalat was not hostile to British, after occupation they cooperated with british and was peaceful. The sword wielding balochs attacking British garrison were marris, and according to British soldiers, they were slaughtered with much ease compared to Pashtuns , they didnt know the tactics of how to fight a far stronger opponent. Accroding to my knowledge , mostly following tribes of balochistan engaged in some battles with British.
1- Kakars
2- Sheranis
3- Marris
4- Khetrans
5- Khajjaks
6- Bugtis

All of these tribes, both Pashtuns and balochs, live in same geography, in and around koh e suliman mountains.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

In your dreams perhaps, kalat was not hostile to British, after occupation they cooperated with british and was peaceful. The sword wielding balochs attacking British garrison were marris, and according to British soldiers, they were slaughtered with much ease compared to Pashtuns , they didnt know the tactics of how to fight a far stronger opponent. Accroding to my knowledge , mostly following tribes of balochistan engaged in some battles with British.
1- Kakars
2- Sheranis
3- Marris
4- Khetrans
5- Khajjaks
6- Bugtis

All of these tribes, both Pashtuns and balochs, live in same geography, in and around koh e suliman mountains.

Dumbass im not talking about Kalat either .. im talking about Marris and their attacks on british garrisons.. if you werent such an idiot you would understand.. and as for not knowing tactics.. yeah.. you are my cow..

 

[Samandri]

Dumbass im not talking about Kalat either .. im talking about Marris and their attacks on british garrisons.. if you werent such an idiot you would understand.. and as for not knowing tactics.. yeah.. you are my cow..

Why you are getting irritated..... ? Kalat hi ki tou baat kar rahe tay tum. It seems you have read too much literature of baloch separatists about kalat a. Cant blame you, as little attention is paid to baloch history in the mainstream pakistan.

 

[mike2000]

They were given orders to fight the Ottomans yet they didn't because Ottomans are muslims. To you guys Islam is paramount. God forbid a war between India and some muslim state breaks out, how do we know our muslims will not jump ship and attack us?

ahahhahahahahah............you killed me there.
Funny statement but true.

 

[Samandri]

it will be wrong to lump all Pashtuns as one large group from military history pov

Same way it will be wrong to lump all Punjabis into one large group from military pov

Both KP (back then Frontier) and Punjab had specific areas that produced young men that were and are fit for a modern military.

Please note I am talking about regular military units and not militia and khasadars.

Pashtun soldiers in British and now Pak army mostly came from Peshawar and Charsaddah area.
Punjabi soldiers came from Northern Punjab including Pothohar, Pindi, Jehlum, Gujrat, Gujranwala and Lahore.

South Punjab and FATA area didn't produce disciplined young men so they were not recruited in large numbers.


Modern wars are much more than just picking up a gun and shooting. It is a profession that needs smart men with cool head as much as bravery.

This is why you need unique temperament in men who can fight these wars.

And there are very few regions around the world that produce such men.

Very few areas.

Its because FATA and PATA were not conquered by british. Kohat and Peshawer were under sikh occupation and their relations with british started on good note in anglo-sikh wars.

 

[Arya Desa]

ahahhahahahahah............you killed me there.
Funny statement but true.

Babe I'm like Abraham Lincoln, honest to a fault.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Its because FATA and PATA were not conquered by british. Kohat and Peshawer were under sikh occupation and their relations with british started on good note in anglo-sikh wars.

Soldier traditions go back centuries. Let's not limit them to 100 or 150 years.

Thank you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

They were given orders to fight the Ottomans yet they didn't because Ottomans are muslims. To you guys Islam is paramount. God forbid a war between India and some muslim state breaks out, how do we know our muslims will not jump ship and attack us?

British Indian soldiers refusing to fight Ottoman troops?

Which WW--1 front had ottomans pitted against British Indian soldiers?

 

[Samandri]

Soldier traditions go back centuries. Let's not limit them to 100 or 150 years.

Thank you.

If that is case, pashtuns of hills were serving in very large number in the armies of ghaznavids, ghauris, delhi sultanates, mughals, deccan sultanates and in afsharid dynasty.
Thank you

 

[FaujHistorian]

If that is case, pashtuns of hills were serving in very large number in the armies of ghaznavids, ghauris, delhi sultanates, mughals, deccan sultanates and in afsharid dynasty.
Thank you

That's what I meant when I said centuries back.

When it comes martial traditions, Pashtuns of Charsaddah, Peshwar etc. are very similar to Punjabis of Pothohar, Pindi, Jehlum etc.