Indian Navy News & Discussions

[Agent_47]

 

[Penguin]

The Type 26 programme is planned to develop three variants - anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-aircraft warfare (AAW) and general purpose (GP) vessels.

• The ASW will be equipped with a standard hull mounted sonar and other low frequency active and passive sonars. They will protect the ship against submarine threats. It will also have a medium range target indication and fire control radar. The mission bay can be configured to meet mission requirements.
• The AAW will be equipped with a long and medium range anti-air missile system and one long range air surveillance radar for protection against air threats. Its modular design will enable accommodation of defence systems and radars of various countries.
• The GP will have a versatile mission bay and accommodate various types of unmanned surface vehicles, sea boats and unmanned underwater vehicles. It can perform counter piracy, maritime security and counter terrorist operations.

The one key area which makes the global combat ship stand apart from other warships is its adaptability.
The Type 26 will adapt to operations, allowing equipment and crew to flex to meet changing tasks. At the centre of this concept is the flexible mission bay located forward of the helicopter hangar, which can house and deploy additional boats, unmanned vehicles (aerial, surface or underwater) or up to ten containers for humanitarian aid.
The design also incorporates a five-inch medium calibre gun and a flight deck that can operate aircraft up to Chinook helicopters. BAE’s original working baseline reportedly involved a 141m x 20m, 6,850t ship, but reductions in target cost led them to publish figures of 148mx19m but just 5,400t. The crew would be just 118, with room for 72 embarked troops

Type 26
Project 17A

Dimensions
148m x 19m
144m x18m

Max. displacement
5,400 tons (probably standard, not full load)
5300 tons standard, 6115-6200 tons - full load

Max. speed
28+ kt
30+ kt

Range
11,000km at 15kt
5,000+ at 18 kt

Endurance
60 days
?

Crew
130 and 36 embarked troops
about 150

Propulsion
CODLOG (Combined Diesel Electric or Gas Turbine) system, with 36MW Rolls-Royce MT30 unspecified MTU diesel generator sets, and David Brown Gear Systems Ltd. gearbox
CODOG (Combined Diesel Or Gas Turbine) system, with two E LM 2500 IEC (36 MW), two S.E.M.T. Pielstick 16 PA6 STC diesels (11,4 MW) and Renk gearboxes.

Weaponsystems

1x 127 mm L55 medium gun
2x 30 mm DS30M mount (with Oelikon KCBs cannon)
2x Phalanx CIWS
2x miniguns (Gatling MGs)
4x machineguns
48 short vls cells for SeaCeptor (CAMM) 25km sam
24 long vls cells for ash and la missiles e.g. LRASM, Tomahawk
Stingray 324mm asw-torpedoes

1x Otobreda 127/64 LW gun
2x AK630
A number (at least 2x8 i.e. half of P15A?) of 80km Barak-8 sam
at least 8x, at most 16x Brahmos (4-8 la, 4-8 Ash)
2x RBU 6000
553mm asw torpedoes

Sensors

Type 997 Artisan 3D radar (200km, 900 targets)
Type 2050 bowsonar
Sonar 2087 towed array
SCOT-5 satcom
URVIN-GQ DLF decoys
No CEC

Revathi S-band 3D CAR (200km 150 targets) plus multi-functional phased array (AESA) radar e.g. IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR or possibly Aegis Combat System (SPY 1F?) combined with radar directors
HUMSA (hull-mounted sonar)
ATAS/Thales Sintra towed array

Helicopters
2x Lynx Wildcat or 1 WA-101 Merlin
2x Sea King sized helicopters, possibly Hal Druv

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

The Type 26 programme is planned to develop three variants - anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-aircraft warfare (AAW) and general purpose (GP) vessels.

• The ASW will be equipped with a standard hull mounted sonar and other low frequency active and passive sonars. They will protect the ship against submarine threats. It will also have a medium range target indication and fire control radar. The mission bay can be configured to meet mission requirements.
• The AAW will be equipped with a long and medium range anti-air missile system and one long range air surveillance radar for protection against air threats. Its modular design will enable accommodation of defence systems and radars of various countries.
• The GP will have a versatile mission bay and accommodate various types of unmanned surface vehicles, sea boats and unmanned underwater vehicles. It can perform counter piracy, maritime security and counter terrorist operations.

The one key area which makes the global combat ship stand apart from other warships is its adaptability.
The Type 26 will adapt to operations, allowing equipment and crew to flex to meet changing tasks. At the centre of this concept is the flexible mission bay located forward of the helicopter hangar, which can house and deploy additional boats, unmanned vehicles (aerial, surface or underwater) or up to ten containers for humanitarian aid.
The design also incorporates a five-inch medium calibre gun and a flight deck that can operate aircraft up to Chinook helicopters. BAE’s original working baseline reportedly involved a 141m x 20m, 6,850t ship, but reductions in target cost led them to publish figures of 148mx19m but just 5,400t. The crew would be just 118, with room for 72 embarked troops

Type 26
Project 17A

Dimensions
148m x 19m
144m x18m

Max. displacement
5,400 tons (probably standard, not full load)
5300 tons standard, 6115-6200 tons - full load

Max. speed
28+ kt
30+ kt

Range
11,000km at 15kt
5,000+ at 18 kt

Endurance
60 days
?

Crew
130 and 36 embarked troops
about 150

Propulsion
CODLOG (Combined Diesel Electric or Gas Turbine) system, with 36MW Rolls-Royce MT30 unspecified MTU diesel generator sets, and David Brown Gear Systems Ltd. gearbox
CODOG (Combined Diesel Or Gas Turbine) system, with two E LM 2500 IEC (36 MW), two S.E.M.T. Pielstick 16 PA6 STC diesels (11,4 MW) and Renk gearboxes.

Weaponsystems

1x 127 mm L55 medium gun
2x 30 mm DS30M mount (with Oelikon KCBs cannon)
2x Phalanx CIWS
2x miniguns (Gatling MGs)
4x machineguns
48 short vls cells for SeaCeptor (CAMM) 25km sam
24 long vls cells for ash and la missiles e.g. LRASM, Tomahawk
Stingray 324mm asw-torpedoes

1x Otobreda 127/64 LW gun
2x AK630
A number (at least 2x8 i.e. half of P15A?) of 80km Barak-8 sam
at least 8x, at most 16x Brahmos (4-8 la, 4-8 Ash)
2x RBU 6000
553mm asw torpedoes

Sensors

Type 997 Artisan 3D radar (200km, 900 targets)
Type 2050 bowsonar
Sonar 2087 towed array
SCOT-5 satcom
URVIN-GQ DLF decoys
No CEC

Revathi S-band 3D CAR (200km 150 targets) plus multi-functional phased array (AESA) radar e.g. IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR or possibly Aegis Combat System (SPY 1F?) combined with radar directors
HUMSA (hull-mounted sonar)
ATAS/Thales Sintra towed array

Helicopters
2x Lynx Wildcat or 1 WA-101 Merlin
2x Sea King sized helicopters, possibly Hal Druv

Since Shivalik had 24 SAM and 32 Barak 1 VLS, it is ridiculous to think that Project 17A will have only 16 Barak 8 SAM.

If I had to guess I would say at least 32 Barak 1/8 combo or even 48 VLS for Air Defence.

 

[Agent_47]

Since Shivalik had 24 SAM and 32 Barak 1 VLS, it is ridiculous to think that Project 17A will have only 16 Barak 8 SAM.

If I had to guess I would say at least 32 Barak 1/8 combo or even 48 VLS for Air Defence.

you are right.my guess is 32 barak 8 + 16 Point defence (maitri/C-dome).
surprising thing is 24 strike length VLS for type 26 and p17a will only have 8 vls.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

you are right.my guess is 32 barak 8 + 16 Point defence (maitri/C-dome).
surprising thing is 24 strike length VLS for type 26 and p17a will only have 8 vls.

Yes, it is rather disappointing. I hope this is proved wrong when the Ship comes out.

 

[Penguin]

Since Shivalik had 24 SAM and 32 Barak 1 VLS, it is ridiculous to think that Project 17A will have only 16 Barak 8 SAM.

If I had to guess I would say at least 32 Barak 1/8 combo or even 48 VLS for Air Defence.

We thought P15 would have 64 Barak 8.... but it got just 32. Israëli navy has refitted one of its SAAR5 from 2x32 Barak 1 down to 2x8 Barak 2.

 

[Penguin]

you are right.my guess is 32 barak 8 + 16 Point defence (maitri/C-dome).
surprising thing is 24 strike length VLS for type 26 and p17a will only have 8 vls.

will?

either 8 or 16 imho.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

We thought P15 would have 64 Barak 8.... but it got just 32. Israëli navy has refitted one of its SAAR5 from 2x32 Barak 1 down to 2x8 Barak 2.

Maybe Barak 8 has a very high kill probability that is not being revealed.

Even then there is premium real estate available for putting more missiles, so its obvious IN will fill it up with VLS of either Strike or defend kind.

 

[Penguin]

Maybe Barak 8 has a very high kill probability that is not being revealed.

Even then there is premium real estate available for putting more missiles, so its obvious IN will fill it up with VLS of either Strike or defend kind.

It is said that Barak 8 fullfills both medium/long range (80km) and close in (500m) intercepts quite well. Not inferior close in to Original Barak.

The missile demonstrates exceptional interception characteristics throughout a very wide operational envelope.

Naval Barak-8 Missiles, Israel - Naval Technology
I'm not so sure IN will actually use Barak1 and 8 in one ship..Instead, you might see 3x8 (That is the number of Shtil on Shivalik and Talwar, of which batch 2 doesn't have any additional SAM...)

Remember, unlike P15A/B, the P17A is not an AAW vessel but an ASW oriented fleet escort. If all large IN ships are fitted with Barak 8, the what should go on an AAW ship like P15B?

 

[Agent_47]

Remember, unlike P15A/B, the P17A is not an AAW vessel but an ASW oriented fleet escort. If all large IN ships are fitted with Barak 8, the what should go on an AAW ship like P15B?

I beg to deffer, In IN,Talwar Class are the ASW oriented frigates.P17s are true multirole vessels, look at the size of it and P17 already have 56 ready to fire SAMs.P15As are primary fleet AAW escorts.Minimum number of SAMs on the P15A can be attributed to the uncertainty over Barak 8 & 1 at the time of construction.

also,whats up with huge difference of range bw T26 and P17?

 

[Penguin]

I beg to deffer, In IN,Talwar Class are the ASW oriented frigates.P17s are true multirole vessels, look at the size of it and P17 already have 56 ready to fire SAMs.P15As are primary fleet AAW escorts.Minimum number of SAMs on the P15A can be attributed to the uncertainty over Barak 8 & 1 at the time of construction.

Of course Talwar is Krivak III with P17 features grafted onto it....

How so are Talwar and P17 so different: there is very little difference in the nature of armament and main sensors. Why is Talwar more ASW and Shivalik more multirole? The latter has double the helicopter load, which is your prime ASW weapon, aside from 533mm torps and RBU6000. Both classes have 8 AShM. Both classes have 24 Shtil and (at least in batch 1 Talwar) a secondary SAM system. All have multibarrel 30mm gatlings. Both have a medium naval gun. I don't see the difference in orientation.

Besides, I was comparing P15A and P17/17A.

On P15A: they could have mounted Barak 1 easily but didn't. Essentially the same situation as on p15 could have been installed, with 2 AK630 and 2x2 8 cell Barak 1 and 2 Elta directors. So you are reffering to ban on Barak 1, yes? IMHO it ended up with 32 Barak 2 because there was no ARH or IIRH inner layer SAM like Maitra/SRSAM available (yet).

 

[ni8mare]

Of course Talwar is Krivak III with P17 features grafted onto it....

How so are Talwar and P17 so different: there is very little difference in the nature of armament and main sensors. Why is Talwar more ASW and Shivalik more multirole? The latter has double the helicopter load, which is your prime ASW weapon, aside from 533mm torps and RBU6000. Both classes have 8 AShM. Both classes have 24 Shtil and (at least in batch 1 Talwar) a secondary SAM system. All have multibarrel 30mm gatlings. Both have a medium naval gun. I don't see the difference in orientation.

Besides, I was comparing P15A and P17/17A.

On P15A: they could have mounted Barak 1 easily but didn't. Essentially the same situation as on p15 could have been installed, with 2 AK630 and 2x2 8 cell Barak 1 and 2 Elta directors. So you are reffering to ban on Barak 1, yes? IMHO it ended up with 32 Barak 2 because there was no ARH or IIRH inner layer SAM like Maitra/SRSAM available (yet).

seriously we need second layer of defence .........like barak 1 or barak 8 mini or what you said

dont kw when they gonna do that

 

[Penguin]

I beg to deffer, In IN,Talwar Class are the ASW oriented frigates.P17s are true multirole vessels, look at the size of it and P17 already have 56 ready to fire SAMs.P15As are primary fleet AAW escorts.Minimum number of SAMs on the P15A can be attributed to the uncertainty over Barak 8 & 1 at the time of construction.

also,whats up with huge difference of range bw T26 and P17?

T-26 is designed with patrol in mind. A few knots plus a different propulsion system and - possibly - larger bunkerage can make the difference

 

[Agent_47]

At the same time the possibility of building on new orders for the Indian Navy by our factory will be discussed. In any case, India has already expressed an interest; it was regarding four ships of more advanced modifications.

Yantar acting CEO upbeat about building ships for Indian Navy | Russia & India Report

Its getting more clear that IN is in discussion to acquire more follow on Talwar class (possibly custom Admiral Grigorovich-class).Notably the required number is up one to four.
Also, i don't believe MoD will allow to simply 'buy' in these days of #makeinindia.It will be a "buy & make'', possibly with private shipyard co operation. At least one will be build in russian shipyard and remaining in Indian yard.

@vostok

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Indian Navy Gets More Immediate Support Vessels
Three more Immediate Support Vessels (ISV) will be commissioned into the Western Naval Command by early next year, taking the total strength to 17.

The latest batch of four ISVs - small and fast weaponised speedboat-like vessels - was commissioned a fortnight ago in a ceremony where Maharashtra chief minister Devendra Fadnavis was also present.

On the occasion, Fadnavis said that the ISV will enhance the capacity of the Indian Navy to provide better security.

ISVs are armed with heavy machine guns and state-of-the-art radar-navigational equipment. The induction and deployment of these ships will augment the ongoing efforts to bolster coastal security and provide protection to offshore assets from asymmetric threats.

While not primarily for coastal patrolling, the boats are used for guarding Indian assets like ONGC oil rigs off the Mumbai coast and the Naval Dockyard from sea borne threats. They however, can be redirected for coastal security if the need arises.

The boats are originally a product of the UAE-based Abu Dhabi Shipbuilders, which are now built in Mumbai by the SHM Shipcare under licence, says chief PRO (defence) Commander Rahul Sinha.

Three of the ISVs were built by ABDS while the remaining eleven were constructed in Mumbai. Three more are expected to be commissioned by early next year, Sinha said.

Indian Navy Gets More Immediate Support