Indian Navy Chief over Gwadar

[KENT]

Sorry to say but as per the analysis of the geopolitical issues experts that card is not going to work since US is totally against IRAN.

Don't feel aplogetic as your analysis fell short of required depth.

Once again you people are trumpting about US pressure on Iran. If that was the case then India didn't opt for the construction of Chabber port.

Furthermore, Northern Alliance backed up by US in Afghanistan doesnot mean that US is going to allow free access to India Via Iran to CIS.

What a nonesence! with the inking of Nucler deal is evident of the fact that US would not only allow access to india towards CIS but also allow to cooperte in turmoiled state of afganistan.

The CIS donot want to trade is another issue that makes Indian Chabber port dreams shatter.

Which world are you living in? CIS itself willing to cooperate with India, Do you even know how many agreement being signed with the countries by India as cooperation Pact.

Keep in mind the IN status also in other areas of weapon systems other than subs.

It is way formidable! for e.g. Induction of a kind of weapons system like Brahmos and anti-crusie missile Barak.I know what is the state of IN other then subs that is why those vessel which comprises of advanced destroyers, stealth frigates often touring all over the globe for exercise with other navies of devloped coutries.

Donot consider IN strong enough to become Incharge of Arabian Ocean.

All these years since IN is one and only incharge of not only Arabian sea but also Indian Ocean. Only USN can challege its formidability in its own backyard.

IN wondering Around in Arabian Ocean is day dreaming considering your Strenght.

Then why don't you let your PN to test the IN.

Check the facts kent before writing so abruptly.

Those were hardcore facts. Afterall anyone can come and challege it.

Omara is being created as a Naval Base and Both Karachi and Omara can be docking Naval Vessels of PN which means 1% chance for IN to blockade Pakistan.

It is not 1971 when IN only going to Block Karachi. Just look at the sheer size of the IN and its quality then come and talk about its percentile of blocklade.

Right now your Navy lacks class in every aspect of Equipment.

Pls highlight those equipment.

Donot ever compare Kilos with Augosta's 70 of 90B.... You have not recieved yet a single Scorpene and your

How many Agosta you have right now? and then compare them with Kilos.

There is no need of submarines to tackle Agosta's, since ASW capability of IN is at all time best.

Those are not ordinary Kilo's, recently they have been extensivly upgraded and proved to more then match for your Agosta's.

Your Harrier fleet is obsolete and PN is not worried about them.

offcourse they are obsolete, but they have been regulary upgraded and fitted with some of the Best Air to Air as well as Anti-ship weapons as compared the whatever PN's Naval Mirage fleet is concerned.

Nearly half of the harriers have crashed and only one dozen are remaining.

Crashes of Harriers doesn't translate into obsolence of Machine.

For the MIG 29, i will only say ... Bring them on and we will see what happens!

Then no PN Naval Fighter plane or Reconissance planes would ever dare to come head on against Mig-29k

I hope India has enough Su-30s to use in all types of conflicts as you people tend to use Su-30 of yours in every fight....

Those are not ordinary Su-30, those SU-30MKI.

We bring them since they are our pride.

Against striking, Interception and Maritime roles. Get all the other planes retired since SU-30 are sufficiant for all fights.

Thanks for you suggestion.

Come up with facts ...

Offcourse I should always come up with facts to correct your ignorance.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Everyone, Please!

Calling someones argument/someone "Rubbish", "Ignorant", "Devoid of Reality", etc. is not helpful, and does not help anyones argument. If you have valid reasoning for why someones opinion is off the mark - suggesting that the other guy is a retard doesn't elevate your argument to new heights.

So play nice please. This is a defense forum, there is going to be a healthy dose of jingoism expressed by both sides and its easy to get threads closed, so FACTS AND POLITE ARGUMENTS ONLY PLEASE!​

 

[MOSABJA]

Dear Indian you can sa what ever you want.But if you know military warfare then the side on offensive must be at least 6 -10 times more power ful then its adversary.PAKISTAN is economically 4-5 times smaller then india.Militarily in terms of numbers the difference is just 2-3 times.In terms of quality and strategic capability both countries are nearly equal.

Blocking ports are a far of thing India cant even touch pakistan.When US is afraid to attack Iran and its already being brought down to its knees by Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan.

How can yours INDIA so easily attack pakistan .Kid U live in fantasy.Be realistic.pakistan inly currently has 3 agostas till 2015 there would be 6.Besides it there are more to come.pakistan would at least induct 4 more new subs they could be U214,Yuan or Marlin.THERE ARE COSMOS MG 110 that pakistan is gonna build lots of pieces indigineously.Then there are ATNI SHIP CRUISE MISSILE could be ready.So IN be as power ful as it can There is no way it can block GWADAR which is more than 1500 km from its coast.

 

[roadrunner]

Dear Indian you can sa what ever you want.But if you know military warfare then the side on offensive must be at least 6 -10 times more power ful then its adversary.

Where on earth did you get this from?! Why must a side starting a military offensive be at least 6-10 times more powerful than its adversary? Did you calculate it, because you're giving very precise figures!

If you have 5 men fighting 1 man, the 5 men will always win, unless the 1 man can take them all on at the same time. Even 1 man who starts an offensive can win against 1 man in a fight.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

You are right about that! The support for NA seems to get more and more in coming years but the Issue with CIS is that they donot want any trade via Iran and one other thing is that; US letting afghanistan share trade with Iran is a day Dream. US and Iran are not getting close enough in next few years. So if NA is in Afghanistan Supported by US, it doesn't mean US will let Iran use the routes to booster its Trade with CIS and that is If CIS agrees, which also seems less likely.

The greatest concern of the US still remains Russia.

Russia, still has the potential to upset US equations in Europe, especially the East European nations. It will be too long a discourse to indicate why, but a bit of googling on Moldovia, Serbia, Kosovo, Estonia, Georgia, Ukraine would allow those who understand the world power equation to realise the danger that Russia still poses to the US.

Russia is helping Iran with her nuclear assets inspite of US objections. Again a bit of googling will help.

It is not that US wants Afghanistan to trade with Iran, it is that US will have no objection of India trading with the CAR for reasons mentioned in my previous post. It is in US interest. Further, it has always been US' policy to balance India with Pakistan and vice versa, since that serves US interests.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The US does not mind India trading with Central Asia, I don't think it cares. But judging by the rhetoric, it seems it would mind Iran getting any benefit.

By the same token, by suggesting that Iran needs US in the region backing the fledgling Afghani government to keep the Taliban at bay (which it does since I don't think Karzai would last two minutes with his NA soldiers), the implication is that Iran would be supporting the Taliban in order to keep the US support for the Northern Alliance, as would India be supporting the Taliban.

You are right that this trade is not of great significance to US strategic policy. In fact, the transit fee that Iran will accrue is peanuts as far as the US is concerned.

Karzai is not dependent on NA soldiers. His army is an Afghan Army.

Iran will not support the Taliban since it is a Sunni organisation. That is why someone had posted that Iran is using Shias to foment problems in Swat.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Iran will not support the Taliban since it is a Sunni organisation. That is why someone had posted that Iran is using Shias to foment problems in Swat.

I believe P2BP suggested that the Army had found Iranian sourced weapons in Parachinar, not Swat - but as I have posted before, both the Afghan Govt., US and Britain have accused Iran of supplying weapons and explosives to the Taliban - that would indicate that the Iranians are not averse to seeing "two enemies tear each other apart" as someone put it. It is indeed surprising that their former allies, the NA, that make up the bulk of the Afghan Government, find it necessary to criticize Iranian actions.

The same is suggested of them in Iraq as well - support for Sunni insurgents as well as the Shia.

 

[roadrunner]

Karzai is not dependent on NA soldiers. His army is an Afghan Army.

The Afghani government depends on the US and warlords for its army and support. The warlords of the Afghani government are mainly Tajik and Uzbek. The Afghani Pashtun warlords make up a minority of the government, and so Afghani Pashtun soldiers will make up a minority of the Afghani Army.

Iran will not support the Taliban since it is a Sunni organisation. That is why someone had posted that Iran is using Shias to foment problems in Swat.

This has very little to do with Sunni-Shia, but more to do with common interests. As per your theory, it is in the interest of Iran to see the US propping up the Karzai dummies so that it can secure its road through Afghanistan into Central Asia. Who cares whether they're Sunni. Iran certainly doesn't care that India is Hindu predominantly.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

RR,

Regarding "common interests", even the Mujahideen were not averse to using the "great Satan" to further their cause, and I wonder whether such pragmatism has seeped into the Taliban psyche, or perhaps was always present, but ignored due to the focus on their puritanical version of Islam.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sorry to say but as per the analysis of the geopolitical issues experts that card is not going to work since US is totally against IRAN. Furthermore, Northern Alliance backed up by US in Afghanistan doesnot mean that US is going to allow free access to India Via Iran to CIS. The CIS donot want to trade is another issue that makes Indian Chabber port dreams shatter.

Any reason to believe otherwise, or is it mere gut feeling?

Haven't seen you given any facts to back your assertions.

Keep in mind the IN status also in other areas of weapon systems other than subs. Donot consider IN strong enough to become Incharge of Arabian Ocean. IN wondering Around in Arabian Ocean is day dreaming considering your Strenght.

I am with you that India is not the master of the Seas.

However, given the strengths and the composition of the Navies, India does have a considerable edge.

In fact, I was myself astonished that the Indian Navy could achieve the attack on Karachi port in 1971. To me, it was not only the strength, but the master use of naval tactics that brought this about.

Check the facts kent before writing so abruptly. Omara is being created as a Naval Base and Both Karachi and Omara can be docking Naval Vessels of PN which means 1% chance for IN to blockade Pakistan. Right now your Navy lacks class in every aspect of Equipment. Donot ever compare Kilos with Augosta's 70 of 90B.... You have not recieved yet a single Scorpene and your

I would ask you to hone up about Navies and how they operate. Even if a nation acquire a Kitty Hawk, and is without support vessels, it is as good as a derelict for target practice.

India by the way, is buying three such subs from France and is also building its own!

Your Harrier fleet is obsolete and PN is not worried about them. Nearly half of the harriers have crashed and only one dozen are remaining. For the MIG 29, i will only say ... Bring them on and we will see what happens! I hope India has enough Su-30s to use in all types of conflicts as you people tend to use Su-30 of yours in every fight.... Against striking, Interception and Maritime roles. Get all the other planes retired since SU-30 are sufficiant for all fights.

Harriers are obsolete, but its value in certain combat configuration is valueless. The Harriers have one problem - the are very expensive to operate!

As far as India having money, I hope you are following the Davos Conference that is in session.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Dear Indian you can sa what ever you want.But if you know military warfare then the side on offensive must be at least 6 -10 times more power ful then its adversary.PAKISTAN is economically 4-5 times smaller then india.Militarily in terms of numbers the difference is just 2-3 times.In terms of quality and strategic capability both countries are nearly equal.

Blocking ports are a far of thing India cant even touch pakistan.When US is afraid to attack Iran and its already being brought down to its knees by Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan.

How can yours INDIA so easily attack pakistan .Kid U live in fantasy.Be realistic.pakistan inly currently has 3 agostas till 2015 there would be 6.Besides it there are more to come.pakistan would at least induct 4 more new subs they could be U214,Yuan or Marlin.THERE ARE COSMOS MG 110 that pakistan is gonna build lots of pieces indigineously.Then there are ATNI SHIP CRUISE MISSILE could be ready.So IN be as power ful as it can There is no way it can block GWADAR which is more than 1500 km from its coast.

If you don't mind, this is not based on fact and the international geostrategic equations.

Blocking ports has been not been done?

The only issue is, at what costs?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Afghani government depends on the US and warlords for its army and support. The warlords of the Afghani government are mainly Tajik and Uzbek. The Afghani Pashtun warlords make up a minority of the government, and so Afghani Pashtun soldiers will make up a minority of the Afghani Army.

The Sunnis of Afghanistan are the serfs and not warlords? I am not aware that the Tajiks and Uzbeks are in overwhelming of warlords of Afghanistan.

Do you have any statistics to indicate the ethnic composition of the Afghan army or is it mere gut feeling and the rumour grapevine. Though, I believe rumours are sometime right!!

This has very little to do with Sunni-Shia, but more to do with common interests. As per your theory, it is in the interest of Iran to see the US propping up the Karzai dummies so that it can secure its road through Afghanistan into Central Asia. Who cares whether they're Sunni. Iran certainly doesn't care that India is Hindu predominantly.

It is PC that is always bandied in a difficult situation that there is no Sunni Shia divide.

It is quite strong, even during peaceable times. Just see when Moharrum comes and how the police has to gear up in all Islamic and non Islamic countries.

I have personally been in such a firefight in Lucknow, without even knowing what's up!

 

[ahussains]

Shia and Suuni is a propaganda of the west ,, they always try to divid us, but we have a very nice moharram in Pakistan every thing peacefull nothing big Happend ..

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Shia and Suuni is a propaganda of the west ,, they always try to divid us, but we have a very nice moharram in Pakistan every thing peacefull nothing big Happend ..

It is time you realise that the remainder of the world is not composed of Fools.

Who the hell is the West to divide you and that the Shia and Sunnis stuff is a propaganda?

Are you oblivious to the problem and do you wish that links from Pakistani newspapers have to be produced?

If there is NO divide, why have you Shias and Sunnis and not one Islamic sect? What is Karbala all about?

Why did the bomb take place in Shia mosques.

Please, I have no desire to get into this, but if you wish to talk rot, then one has to correct the situation.

I find it a total humbug to state that it is the fault of the West. Karbala was not written by President Bush nor was the Shia and Sunni divide!

Your type of self-delusion post does rankle since it astounds how people can live in self denial and exploratory in devising and engineering excuses for even historical facts that cannot be refuted!

 

[IceCold]

It is time you realise that the remainder of the world is not composed of Fools.

Who the hell is the West to divide you and that the Shia and Sunnis stuff is a propaganda?

Are you oblivious to the problem and do you wish that links from Pakistani newspapers have to be produced?

If there is NO divide, why have you Shias and Sunnis and not one Islamic sect? What is Karbala all about?

Why did the bomb take place in Shia mosques.

Please, I have no desire to get into this, but if you wish to talk rot, then one has to correct the situation.

I find it a total humbug to state that it is the fault of the West. Karbala was not written by President Bush nor was the Shia and Sunni divide!

Your type of self-delusion post does rankle since it astounds how people can live in self denial and exploratory in devising and engineering excuses for even historical facts that cannot be refuted!

Look! its common sense that when two people have some sort of differences, the third will always take advantage of it, the same way it was done in iraq, dividing the shia and sunni, targeting each others places and creating a conflict between the two. Anyhow in pakistan, there isnt much divide in both the groups however the fact is there that there are some radicals in both the groups that do all sort of terrorist activities and then there are some (foreign elements) who sure likes to take an advantage over the situation protaying as a conflict between the two groups. As for the protection, yes indeed they are heavily protected specially in Muharam but not because of some sort of religious biased between the two communites but because of the terrorism that is likely to target the key places not only for shias but also for sunnies.