Indian army $10-bn combat vehicle order!!!

[angeldemon_007]

I thought IA were seriously interested in US Stryker. (not as FICV but to be operated in certain specialised operations.) does this blow that out of the water or is the Stryker for IA still a real possibility ??

Whatever India will select it will be a future version of present ICVs. I doubt Stryker has any chance until GD signs an agreement with some indian company. BAE is also partner in Stryker project but i don't think US will let BAE to sell Stryker to us.

 

[Omega007]

Either ways, the company that will be selected will be on the basis of the techno-commercial bid. If a private company provides a better tech within the budget specified, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be awarded the contract.
BTW as far as TATA is concerned, when you combine Tata Motors India,Tata Daewoo and Tata Hispano, it is one of the biggest heavy vehicle manufacturers in the world (second I believe) . It has access to tech it hasn't even introduced in India yet. For the wheeled version of the FICV,they are already experienced enough.The tracked version may be another story.

Yeah,I know how big Tata is.But they have no expertise in tracked armored vehicles,neither they can build an engine of their own.On the other hand DRDO has all the techs and expertise needed to develop a world class ICV.
So how do you know that the tata can deliver a better ICV in less time than the DRDO when the former has got no expertise and experience and the later has got all of them in plenty.And regarding the cost,no one can develop something most costeffective than DRDO.Example-Nag is 3 times cheaper than similar atgms,Akash which is better than the Spada 2000 costs less than half,Pinaka,Arjuns every thing they have developed.So you are just denying this organisation's dedication and contribution to our country.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Whatever India will select it will be a future version of present ICVs. I doubt Stryker has any chance until GD signs an agreement with some indian company. BAE is also partner in Stryker project but i don't think US will let BAE to sell Stryker to us.

I'm pretty sure the Stryker has already been cleared by USG- its participation in Yudh Abys 2010 was merely a big PR stunt looking for sales, so I don't think there would be any opposition from anyone if IA wanted to buy. But I thought the Stryker procurement was a different procurement and nothing to do with FICV and not to be bought in these huge numbers, maybe 100-300? So are you saying Stryker has no chance because of FICV? I'm sure IA knew FICV was on the horizon when the floated their interest about Stryker.

 

[Vibs]

Yeah,I know how big Tata is.But they have no expertise in tracked armored vehicles,neither they can build an engine of their own.On the other hand DRDO has all the techs and expertise needed to develop a world class ICV.
So how do you know that the tata can deliver a better ICV in less time than the DRDO when the former has got no expertise and experience and the later has got all of them in plenty.And regarding the cost,no one can develop something most costeffective than DRDO.Example-Nag is 3 times cheaper than similar atgms,Akash which is better than the Spada 2000 costs less than half,Pinaka,Arjuns every thing they have developed.So you are just denying this organisation's dedication and contribution to our country.

Well I'm going by the concept of core competence. Your logic of the ICV from DRDO is sound based on the background. But Tata's and Godrej's have a core competence in handling "Projects". Tata's have a knowledge base drawn from the minds of their employees around the world. And Tata's have yet to significantly miss a deadline. The body/hull is easily adaptable from their mine protection vehicles. When they acquired Daewoo and Hispana, they acquired access to some of the best Heavy Vehicle Engine and Chassis manufacturing technology in the world. What's remaining is the weapon's bay, which in either case would have been imported or co-developed.
Track based vehicles I give the benefit of the doubt to DRDO, but wheel based vehicles will be Tata's terrain.

 

[Omega007]

I think Indian army should have bought few hundred Abhay ICVs as a temporary solution before the FICV arrives.I mean every year thousands of crores of Rs are left unspent and went back to Finance ministry.This funds should have used to purchase more Arjuns and some Abhays to bump up their capability.But no,they will instead give the funds back but will never by world class products since they are indigenous.They might also divert these extra funds to Arjun and other development but ..what ever.Frankly,the IA topbrass is the dumbest in the world,there is no doubt about that.

 

[Omega007]

Well I'm going by the concept of core competence. Your logic of the ICV from DRDO is sound based on the background. But Tata's and Godrej's have a core competence in handling "Projects". Tata's have a knowledge base drawn from the minds of their employees around the world. And Tata's have yet to significantly miss a deadline. The body/hull is easily adaptable from their mine protection vehicles. When they acquired Daewoo and Hispana, they acquired access to some of the best Heavy Vehicle Engine and Chassis manufacturing technology in the world. What's remaining is the weapon's bay, which in either case would have been imported or co-developed.
Track based vehicles I give the benefit of the doubt to DRDO, but wheel based vehicles will be Tata's terrain.

Yeah,now you told the right thing bro.But I think DRDO does not need a partner in weapons bay development.The ordnance factories can produce Mag 58,PKM GPMG,NVT HMG,30 mm guns,40 mm guns,granade launchers,105 mm guns,ATGM launchers,BEL can produce the all digital fire control computers,ballistic computers,defencive aid systems-so every capability does exist with the companies and all are comparable to the world's bests.So more chance that project will be completed faster.
But as you said,lets keep our faith on the private players atleast for once.
REGARDS....

 

[nwmalik]

4X4 Category:

Ashok Layland`s 4X4 MPV, prototype..

6x6 Category!
The One truly needed for CRPF, Mahindra-BAE, 6X6 MPV, Prototype!

New MPV/APC's under development by TATA shall probably be more like the European armored truck concepts pictured below.(the OT-64 is a soviet era vehicle)

Lovely machines.

 

[Vibs]

I think Indian army should have bought few hundred Abhay ICVs as a temporary solution before the FICV arrives.I mean every year thousands of crores of Rs are left unspent and went back to Finance ministry.This funds should have used to purchase more Arjuns and some Abhays to bump up their capability.But no,they will instead give the funds back but will never by world class products since they are indigenous.They might also divert these extra funds to Arjun and other development but ..what ever.Frankly,the IA topbrass is the dumbest in the world,there is no doubt about that.

Yeah they are confusing in that way. But I suspect part of the reason is to tell the govt that the IA is not going to accept substandard equipment like had been done in the past. In fact all armed forces seem to be doing this.
But you are right. Abhay could've been rolled out just to fill up the gap.

 

[Omega007]

Yeah they are confusing in that way. But I suspect part of the reason is to tell the govt that the IA is not going to accept substandard equipment like had been done in the past. In fact all armed forces seem to be doing this.
But you are right. Abhay could've been rolled out just to fill up the gap.

When Abhay rolled out it was infact still is one of the most heavily armored and armed ICV.So if they had replaced older 500-600 BMP 2s with that it would have been great and Abhay was no way substandard but a world class system,atleast much better protected from those metal coffins named BMP2.Actualy all these quality issues are raised for indigenous systems.But when they buy or operate foreign junks like T90S or BMP2 suddenly they become world beaters.God save our dumb army.

 

[sancho]

I'm pretty sure the Stryker has already been cleared by USG- its participation in Yudh Abys 2010 was merely a big PR stunt looking for sales, so I don't think there would be any opposition from anyone if IA wanted to buy. But I thought the Stryker procurement was a different procurement and nothing to do with FICV and not to be bought in these huge numbers, maybe 100-300? So are you saying Stryker has no chance because of FICV? I'm sure IA knew FICV was on the horizon when the floated their interest about Stryker.

IA has still the requirement and the need for a fast induction of light IFVs, or light tanks and the Stryker was offered to India in this regard, but not sure what happend to it, or if there is a real competion. IA is really slow when it comes to new procurements and has a high focus on foreign arms, or techs, but I think since our defence industry is proposing more and more indigenous stuff, they have to change their policy.

I'm still for the Patria AMV and the CV 90 in different versions, by the fact that they can share most of the turrets, or weapons. Add some capable self propelled howitzers like the KMW artillery gun module and IA has a highly mobile combination of firepower and fire support for the northern areas.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I'm pretty sure the Stryker has already been cleared by USG- its participation in Yudh Abys 2010 was merely a big PR stunt looking for sales, so I don't think there would be any opposition from anyone if IA wanted to buy.

No there is no problem with US selling us Stryker. I think you didn't understand what i meant. If IA purchases Stryker then it would be either via FMS or through General Dynamics. US won't let a foreign company to benefit when their is a chance its own companies can get the project (BAE system is also partner in Stryker which is a British company not US).
But i doubt Stryker will be selected because it was that Yudh Abhyas (2009) that this FICV project came to surface. Also according to this project FICV will be the result of a domestic company which clearly throws Stryker out of the race as General Dynamics has no partnership with any of the Indian companies. I think BAE is the best partner for FICV which has partnership with Mahindra because they have been part of some future ICV project like that of US and UK.

But I thought the Stryker procurement was a different procurement and nothing to do with FICV and not to be bought in these huge numbers, maybe 100-300?

As far as i know there is no such plan. If you have some information on this plan like some article or official release then share with us. I just know IA showed interest i Stryker during yudh Abhyas 2009 but then we decided to go with FICV.

The body/hull is easily adaptable from their mine protection vehicles.

No its not possible but our companies won't face much problems because most of them have built mine protected vehicles. Don't worry this project is most likely going to a private companies because GOI and MOD is under scrutiny that even after opening defense sector no big project has been provided to a private sector yet. Also DRDO-OFB will be busy this decade with their FMBT and Arjun mk2 project.

Track based vehicles I give the benefit of the doubt to DRDO, but wheel based vehicles will be Tata's terrain.

Only one company will be selected and i think there will be only one design and it will come in both track and wheeled version. Also i doubt DRDO-OFB will have any advantage other than the infrastructure. No private company wants to set up a new manufacturing unit. As far far as technical point of view is concerned all the comapnies have tie up with Global giants while OFB has tie-up with Rososboronexport which is still living in Soviet era while Mahindra and ALL have tie -up with global giants who have been involved in latest products.

I think Indian army should have bought few hundred Abhay ICVs as a temporary solution before the FICV arrives.I mean every year thousands of crores of Rs are left unspent and went back to Finance ministry.

BMP 2 is working fine. Don't worry with the unspent money. IA needs modernization in every field. From this year onwards IA will start purchasing and believe me they have a long list and its good that BMP2 is working fine right now. They will be inducting alot in their aviation wing, then their is ATGM, artillery and MBts which need immediate attention.

But you are right. Abhay could've been rolled out just to fill up the gap.

There is no such immediate requirement.

I'm still for the Patria AMV and the CV 90 in different versions, by the fact that they can share most of the turrets, or weapons. Add some capable self propelled howitzers like the KMW artillery gun module and IA has a highly mobile combination of firepower and fire support for the northern areas.

Since FICV will be coming by the end of decade, we can get some next gen ICV which are being developed by BAE, GD, KMW etc.
I would vote for BAE systems, they are involved in most of the next gen ICV projects.

 

[angeldemon_007]

 

[angeldemon_007]

Latest news :
Guys one more project were we can see the private sector consortium...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...domestic-companies-rs-10-000-cr-contract.html

 

[saurav]

Yeah they are confusing in that way. But I suspect part of the reason is to tell the govt that the IA is not going to accept substandard equipment like had been done in the past. In fact all armed forces seem to be doing this.
But you are right. Abhay could've been rolled out just to fill up the gap.

This gap filler attitude has led IAF to induct so many platforms..Truth is that when ABHAY came, we did not have money. Now that we have enough money, why settle for something less advanced...

I am sure Mahindra and L&T will top the list with OFB at the last..These OFB guys are the laziest of the lot..

 

[Zabaniyah]

$10 billion for vehicles? Holy crap! That's a lot!