Indian allegations are 'nonconstructive and provocitive' | Gen Kayani

[karan.1970]

yindoos don't know a rats *** about pakistan, if pakistan army conducted that operation in keran then india wouldve had it twice as worst as kargil.

No, you think you know the reality of Pakistan, just like most Pakistanis think they know the reality of India. The REALITY is that you should care what he says, why? He's the most powerful man in Pakistan, and the one who's going to replace him is expected to carry on his policies regarding India. So to ignore him is tantamount to letting Pakistan gain a diplomatic edge over India.

Not reality of Pakistan, but reality of Pakistani statements of deniability ..And really, PA is the biggest roadblock for Pakistani international diplomacy.

That's the problem with you guys, you already know the reality without ever listening to anyone.............

Credibility builds over time, and PA statements/assurances on their activities on LOC have lost all credibility over last few decades with a spectacular culmination in 1999.

 

[That Guy]

Not reality of Pakistan, but reality of Pakistani statements of deniability ..And really, PA is the biggest roadblock for Pakistani international diplomacy.

Playing semantics doesn't really change my point, but I do agree that the PA is perhaps the biggest hurdle that Pakistan's civilian government has to overcome in order to have an independent foreign policy.

Credibility builds over time, and PA statements/assurances on their activities on LOC have lost all credibility over last few decades with a spectacular culmination in 1999.

Again, this is entirely from an Indian point of view. I don't blame Indians for feeling this way, but only looking at it from this angle doesn't really capture the entire picture. Pakistan's side of the story needs to be told too, but that is something Pakistan won't be allowed to do.

 

[bandit]

And that is where I would stop taking you seriously if I didn't already do that since the beginning. Your views a flawed and they've been reinforced by your nationalist media. You keep talking about Kargil and 65, but you ignore the fact that IA has trained and financed terrorists in other countries (simple examples would be Sri Lanka and Balochistan).

Is it any wonder that the people of these two nations hate each other when both peoples can't get over the fact that their respective nation's militaries have done terrible and horrendous thing to each other and others around them?

Well my friend, you can stop taking me seriously, I got no problem, but the irritating facts, not so sure.

Has the PA lied in the past- Yes.
Has the PA misled the Pakistani public-Yes.

Your assumption, of me being influenced by the media is wrong, since I have been unlucky enough to not watch or read Indian media for half a decade.

Your second assumption,about IA aiding Bagnla or Sl rebels is wrong as well, as that was a GOI decision, implemented by IA officers, not an institutional one.

The moral superiority still stands, whether be it burying the bodies of disowned PA soldiers rotting in kargil, or saving the surrendered soldiers in Bangladesh from rioting bangalees; although I believe we should have bangaless handle the dishonoured soldiers in 71.

 

[That Guy]

Well my friend, you can stop taking me seriously, I got no problem, but the irritating facts, not so sure.

Has the PA lied in the past- Yes.
Has the PA misled the Pakistani public-Yes.

Your assumption, of me being influenced by the media is wrong, since I have been unlucky enough to not watch or read Indian media for half a decade.

Your second assumption,about IA aiding Bagnla or Sl rebels is wrong as well, as that was a GOI decision, implemented by IA officers, not an institutional one.

The moral superiority still stands, whether be it burying the bodies of disowned PA soldiers rotting in kargil, or saving the surrendered soldiers in Bangladesh from rioting bangalees; although I believe we should have bangaless handle the dishonoured soldiers in 71.

Let's dissect your comment, shall we?

First,

Has the PA lied in the past- Yes.
Has the PA misled the Pakistani public-Yes.

So has the IA and Indian government, there is no denying this. I've already given you a recent example.

Your assumption, of me being influenced by the media is wrong, since I have been unlucky enough to not watch or read Indian media for half a decade.

There are two ways to consume media, direct and indirect. You may not have read Indian media directly, but you sure as a rainbow after rain consumed their sensationalism indirectly through other ways, whether that be social media or through family and friends, heck, maybe even this forum.

Your second assumption,about IA aiding Bagnla or Sl rebels is wrong as well, as that was a GOI decision, implemented by IA officers, not an institutional one.

You've just contradicted yourself in this comment. If the government made this decision then it was an institutional decision. The IA carried it out which means they're equally as guilty, after all a contract killer is just as guilty as the one who hired him/her.

The moral superiority still stands, whether be it burying the bodies of disowned PA soldiers rotting in kargil, or saving the surrendered soldiers in Bangladesh from rioting bangalees; although I believe we should have bangaless handle the dishonoured soldiers in 71.

More flawed assertions which have already been disproven in this forum by others including Indian members, so I'm not even going to bother arguing against it. All I'll say is that you and I both know that this comment is flawed and leave it at that.

Now I doubt you actually think this way, but I'd just like to point out that I don't like the wording you're using in your comments. It's too hostile and aggressive, as if you'd like nothing more than to kill the first Pakistani you see. Just be careful of your wordings, you may come off as something you're not.

 

[karan.1970]

Playing semantics doesn't really change my point, but I do agree that the PA is perhaps the biggest hurdle that Pakistan's civilian government has to overcome in order to have an independent foreign policy.



Again, this is entirely from an Indian point of view. I don't blame Indians for feeling this way, but only looking at it from this angle doesn't really capture the entire picture. Pakistan's side of the story needs to be told too, but that is something Pakistan won't be allowed to do.

I agree to your points above, and the context I was posting under was infact the Indian Point of view.. So yes, while there will be a Pakistani Army side of the story as well, from an Indian civilian POV, the statements of PA are taken with a very large helping of salt.

 

[That Guy]

I agree to your points above, and the context I was posting under was infact the Indian Point of view.. So yes, while there will be a Pakistani Army side of the story as well, from an Indian civilian POV, the statements of PA are taken with a very large helping of salt.

Don't worry, the feeling is mutual...

...actually worry a lot because the feeling is mutual. You never know when a dumb power hungry nationalist politician will come into power and stir things up even more.

 

[That Guy]

Contact Kiyani after 10 years when Pakistan issues the dead soldiers list.

In today's Pakistan, it's very hard to cover up a soldier's deaths. The Pakistani media has become too free and regularly insult the military and sometimes outright speak out against them. Trust me when I say that if there were dead soldiers that it would quickly get out.

It's the same with India.

 

[That Guy]

Pakistani punjabis are the major recruits of these terrorist organisations .

Last time I checked it is the PA that has presence in pak punjab .

So are you calling your own army the terrorist army .....

Actually that's wrong. Your claim is based on nothing more than a bias assumption. I'm not going to talk about who's a terrorist and what not, but what I will say is that while a number of the fighters are punjabi, they're actually mostly from the tribal agency and Azad Kashmir.

 

[kinsr]

firstly ,, india will never agree to hold any third party intervention in this regard., be it UN or any other 3rd party., the protest are raised as a matter of documentation only ,, just like you get a police report/fir registered in a police station when you loose your wallet or cell phone,, you dont expect the police to find it for you,, India doesnt expect any other action from Pakistan other than what its been doing for the last 65 years,, general kiyani is no different and he will have to follow the same precedence as set up by his predecessors,, denial for survival,, PA survivability depends on the kashmir cause and hence the animosity with India and hence the justification for unbridled funding,, Ever wondered why has never a civilian govt in Pakistan has approved a military action against India. Bcoz the civilian govt had to take care of the civilians,, the civilian govt cannot justify the endless supply of funds to the army., so the pakistan army has to keep the bogey alive in the form of india for funds or they can overtake the civilian govt by a coup to manage those funds themselves., and let the common Pakistani rot without electricity or water,,
So now since Mr Kiyani says that Indian allegation are 'unproductive' he is quite right in saying so,, if those allegations did found to be true then surely the pakistani people may question act,, and the moment they do ,, PA will have to do another coup., which will be another headache and quite counter productive exercise for PA

 

[Edevelop]

Kayani slams Indian counterpart's allegations over Army, ISI as 'unfortunate, provocative'

Islamabad, Oct. 12 (ANI): Pakistan's Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani has slammed the recent statements of his Indian counterpart of accusing the Army and ISI of supporting terrorism as 'unfortunate, unfounded and provocative'.

The COAS said instead of levelling such baseless allegations against Pakistan, India should work on holding joint, impartial investigation, preferably by the United Nations, into the continued ceasefire violations along the Line of Control (LoC), the Daily Times reports.

General Kayani said that the Pakistan Army was exercising restraint, but it should not be misused by the rival country to spoil the prospects of regional peace.

The ceasefire was proposed by Pakistan and agreed to by the South Asian neighbours in 2003. (ANI)

Kayani slams Indian counterpart's allegations over Army, ISI as 'unfortunate, provocative'

 

[That Guy]

These claims are not from us. It is from the data of Combating*Terrorism*Center ,*the*U.S.*Military*Academy , Department of Defense ,*of*the*U.S.*government . According to them 89% of LeT recruits are from pak punjab .

According to US reports, it's actually 94% and they only know this through indirect links and hearsay, which means they have no real proof of their claims.

 

[Ammyy]

Channels are reporting that kiyani has just given statement and rejected Indian claims about is I and Pakistan army involvement in keran and other sectors

May be after some time when your kayani thrown out from Pakistan (Like Musharraf) he will confess that they supported insurgency in Kashmir.

 

[Zarvan]

Indians allegations are not only baseless but childish they are saying Pakistan is sending militants and they are carrying identity cards with them and also Pakistan cigarettes and food products Indian Army is should use brain or before coming with some false allegation so for some it may look true not this funny crap of militants carrying identity cards and packets of cigarettes and chips and other food items they should watch this video of Indian bashing done by Pakistanis on their show

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=380151195421434

 

[kurup]

According to US reports, it's actually 94% and they only know this through indirect links and hearsay, which means they have no real proof of their claims.

I don't know where you got that from .

What I have posted is from the research paper "The Fighters of Lashkar‐e‐Taiba: Recruitment, Training, Deployment and Death" .

This paper is a study of over 900 biographies of the deceased militants of LeT not some hearsay and according to them ,

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rc...U0PnmrrIpS2qZDX1XXuIRlA&bvm=bv.53899372,d.bmk

 

[notorious_eagle]

Not reality of Pakistan, but reality of Pakistani statements of deniability ..And really, PA is the biggest roadblock for Pakistani international diplomacy.

Credibility builds over time, and PA statements/assurances on their activities on LOC have lost all credibility over last few decades with a spectacular culmination in 1999.

Indeed Karan; Indian Government and Indian Army are the epitome of integrity, truthfulness and reliability. Want some ketchups