Indian Air Force's frontline Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jet is facing a crisis

[Zarvan]

Zee Media Bureau
Follow @ZeeNews
New Delhi: Amid depleting squadron numbers and fighter jet crisis, the Indian Air Force is now facing a problem with its frontline fighter aircraft Sukhoi Su-30MKI.


The government said on Thursday Su-30MKIs have been facing engine troubles and have been forced to land on single engine 34 times since April 1, 2014.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in reply to a written question in the Lok Sabha that the fleet of twin-engine aircraft has encountered mid-air engine problems due to which single-engine landings were effected.





MUST READ
Sukhoi cannot replace Rafale: IAF chief




Sukhoi Su-30MKI is a twin-engine multi-role aircraft developed by Russia's Sukhoi and built under licence by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the Indian Air Force.


First Published: Friday, May 6, 2016 - 18:07

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...i-fighter-jet-is-facing-a-crisis_1882778.html

 

[nang2]

How many sorties since April 1, 2014?

 

[Syed Asif Bukhari]

and they say su 30 is invincible . Actually , their safety record is bad . most important of all, it is assembled by HAL. China is also using Flankers without much problem.

 

[Tipu7]

IAF ne rooz koi naya chaand charhaya hota he.
Kbhi Rafale, Kbhi Tejas,........... or kbhi MKI

 

[aliaselin]

Typical problem for AL-31F
As a matter of fact, RD-33/93 is much more reliable compared to AL-31F though quite smoky

 

[Manindra]

Typical problem for AL-31F
As a matter of fact, RD-33/93 is much more reliable compared to AL-31F though quite smoky

Yes but current generation RD-33 are reliable & they are not smoky (except RD-93 version may be due to squeezing more thrust).

 

[kaykay]

How many sorties since April 1, 2014?

Must be around 50000+ sorties...as India have 200+ MKIs and Indian pilots clock around 150 flight hours every year.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Must be around 50000+ sorties...as India have 200+ MKIs and Indian pilots clock around 150 flight hours every year.

*200-250 is the mandated minimum for IAF fighter jocks (depending on type).

 

[Jamwal's]

and they say su 30 is invincible . Actually , their safety record is bad . most important of all, it is assembled by HAL. China is also using Flankers without much problem.

Only 6 ~ crashes since it's induction in early 2000.

And how do you know about China. Do they have transparency,they don't even have parliamentary committee on defense and CAG.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Zee Media Bureau
Follow @ZeeNews
New Delhi: Amid depleting squadron numbers and fighter jet crisis, the Indian Air Force is now facing a problem with its frontline fighter aircraft Sukhoi Su-30MKI.


The government said on Thursday Su-30MKIs have been facing engine troubles and have been forced to land on single engine 34 times since April 1, 2014.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in reply to a written question in the Lok Sabha that the fleet of twin-engine aircraft has encountered mid-air engine problems due to which single-engine landings were effected.





MUST READ
Sukhoi cannot replace Rafale: IAF chief




Sukhoi Su-30MKI is a twin-engine multi-role aircraft developed by Russia's Sukhoi and built under licence by India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the Indian Air Force.


First Published: Friday, May 6, 2016 - 18:07

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...i-fighter-jet-is-facing-a-crisis_1882778.html

The AL-31 is a known "problem child", in 2012 the IAF signed a $5BN USD deal for the supply of 970 (920 of them being made in India) AL-31P to support their MKI fleet for the next 15 years.


No wonder the IAF is going for the Rafale that comes with the M88 with a life span >6,000 hours, the AL-31P will be lucky to cross 2,000h with the IAF mandating TBO of 1,000h (the M88 doesn't require overhauls at all).

and they say su 30 is invincible . Actually , their safety record is bad . most important of all, it is assembled by HAL. China is also using Flankers without much problem.

Their safety record is comprable with almost any fighter in service to day.

+ the Chinese don't disclose any information that would make themselves look "bad" but I'm pretty sure the reason behind the J-10 crashes have been engine (AL-31) failure, luckily the MKI has 2 of them so not every engine failure will lead to an airframe loss/crash.

+ the comment about HAL is farcial, show me another company on the planet that has a portfolio as broad as theirs. There is nothing questionable about HAL's quality control mechanisms and nothing to suggest HAL builds shoddy equipment. In fact the LCA which has been flying for >15 years with over 4,000h logged in >20 protoypes has not had a single airframe loss to date and is BUILT BY HAL.

 

[Spectre]

The AL-31 is a known "problem child", in 2012 the IAF signed a $5BN USD deal for the supply of 970 AL-31P to support their MKI fleet for the next 15 years.


No wonder the IAF is going for the Rafale that comes with the M88 with a life span >6,000 hours, the AL-31P will be lucky to cross 2,000h with the IAF mandating TBO of 1,000h (the M88 doesn't require overhauls at all).

Bad news bro. Parikkar has said that

1. Rafale deal is not signed and there is no guarantee that it will be signed at all.
2. If the deal is to be signed then France has to lower the price much more than what it had quoted in MMRCA. He also said people would be surprised at the final price if and when the deal is signed.
3. He indicated corruption and systems for kickbacks during MMRCA and he is confident that without these deal would be cheaper.
4. He also said there is no compulsion to go for Rafales and there are other options available which India can avail if French don't play ball

ALL yours and @PARIKRAMA plan for retirement in Paris turn into dust now.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bad news bro. Parikkar has said that

1. Rafale deal is not signed and there is no guarantee that it will be signed at all.
2. If the deal is to be signed then France has to lower the price much more than what it had quoted in MMRCA. He also said people would be surprised at the final price if and when the deal is signed.
3. He indicated corruption and systems for kickbacks during MMRCA and he is confident that without these deal would be cheaper.
4. He also said there is no compulsion to go for Rafales and there are other options available which India can avail if French don't play ball

ALL yours and @PARIKRAMA plan for retirement in Paris turn into dust now.

Their's a combination of things going on here

1) Parrikar is still trying to play the "hard" guy vis a vis Dassualt to get a greater discount- a continuation of what we have already seen.
2) The AW scandel is being pushed in every way possible to humiliate/discredit the Congress and thus the BJP are using all possible angles to pursue their objective, the Rafale has (sadly but predictably) been thrown into the mix but that does't really change anything.


The deal will progress no matter what, Modi himself has invested personal (political) capital in the deal and the MII part is a lynchpin in the Make in India policy. If there was even a shred of evidence involving the Rafale Modi wouldn't have touched this deal with a barge pole and once the MMRCA had been scrapped (late 2014) it wouldhave remained dead, not revived by him personally in April 2015 in Paris.


Poltics.

ALL yours and @PARIKRAMA plan for retirement in Paris turn into dust now.

Not at all! There is nothing to indicate a change in policy/intention by this GoI, the Rafale deal has only gathered momentum in the past few weeks and Parrikar himself said the deal will be signed (when the price is right). It would have been increidbly easy to end all talks and cast of this deal at the first hint of trouble, the fact the GoI/DM is sticking at it indicates the deal is happening no matter what.

 

[Spectre]

Their's a combination of things going on here

1) Parrikar is still trying to play the "hard" guy vis a vis Dassualt to get a greater discount- a conintuation of what we have already seen.
2) The AW scandel is being pushed in every way possible to humiliate/discredit the Congress and thus the BJP are using all possible angles to pursue their objective, the Rafale has (sadly but predictably) been thrown into the mix but that does't really change anything.


The deal will progress no matter what, Modi himself has invested personal (political) capital in the deal and the MII part is a lynchpin in the Make in India policy. If there was even a shred of evidence involving the Rafale Modi wouldn't have touched this deal with a barge pole and once the MMRCA had been scrapped (late 2014) it wouldhave remained dead, not revived by him personally in April 2015 in Paris.


Poltics.

Bhai! you have clearly been in Britain for quite long. Politics in India would give you Brits the blushes.

You have to understand Modi - For all his virtues, He likes limelight, he believes himself to be a great negotiator, a closer of deals, The MAN who gets things done.

People often take advantage of this weakness. French promised yada, yada in Paris and Modi said Yes. When negotiations began the reality was much different from what has been promised. This was seen in earlier French Contracts and MMRCA too.

Now MP is a hard nosed brawler and enjoys complete trust of PM. Politically Rafale is still in cold storage till the time it is signed and after that experts and oppositions will check out out every pore and crevice of the deal with Electron Microscope. Knowing this - Deal will not be signed unless significant concessions are made and PM can show to common man he has got a better deal than UPA.

If not, Then Au revoir Rafale! That is why other suitors are not being turned away straight away. LM, Boeing, SAAB etc are not fools that they will continue lobbying on what is a lost case. They smell blood and hence circle like sharks..

END Result - Looser is our poor IAF!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Bhai! you have clearly been in Britain for quite long. Politics in India would give you Brits the blushes.

You have to understand Modi - For all his virtues, He likes limelight, he believes himself to be a great negotiator, a closer of deals, The MAN who gets things done.

People often take advantage of this weakness. French promised yada, yada in Paris and Modi said Yes. When negotiations began the reality was much different from what has been promised. This was seen in earlier French Contracts and MMRCA too.

Now MP is a hard nosed brawler and enjoys complete trust of PM. Politically Rafale is still in cold storage till the time it is signed and after that experts and oppositions will check out out every pore and crevice of the deal with Electron Microscope. Knowing this - Deal will not be signed unless significant concessions are made and PM can show to common man he has got a better deal than UPA.

If not, Then Au revoir Rafale! That is why other suitors are not being turned away straight away. LM, Boeing, SAAB etc are not fools that they will continue lobbying on what is a lost case. They smell blood and hence circle like sharks..

END Result - Looser is our poor IAF!

The BJP have already jumped the gun and splashed "JOB DONE" on their twitter account, if that is't an indication this deal is in the final stages I don't know what is.

As you have said, Modi likes to seem himself as "the man", he is thus going to do what it takes to get the deal done. Cancelling this deal >1 year later (and now after that infamous infograph from the offcial BJP twitter acc) would be a humiliation Modi would never accept. One way or another the deal gets done that is my impression and one I am told by others in the know (somewhat) is a fair reflection of what is to come.

I'd also point out that NO ONE, outside of maybe 20 people on both sides has any clue of the true state of the talks and all are bound by offical secrets acts so all this nonsensical talk of "deal in trouble" is pure conjecture is not outright misniformation with an agenda (ie on the payroll of SAAB/Boeing/LM etc).

If those sharks had a chance then we would have seen something come of Ash Carter's visit but he couldn't even depart with LEMOA in his back pocket nor has the USG conceded to India's demands on critical ToT. Outside of the French there are no viable candidates but that doesn't mean the road isn't going to be a hard one to walk down. Once again, Dassualt are the ONLY OEM who has presented a true MII proposal for a fighter line in India that is fully compliant with India's demands, no one else is even close (Boeing could offer it in maybe 2 years pending USG approval that has never remotely seemed forthcoming).


If the Rafale deal was off the table we'd have seen something, anything, else being proposed a sa plan "B" but not even more MKIs are on the horizon and the declining SQN strength has been personally noted by the PM and DM.

 

[Spectre]

The BJP have already jumped the gun and splashed "JOB DONE" on their twitter account, if that is't an indication this deal is in the final stages I don't know what is.

As you have said, Modi likes to seem himself as "the man", he is thus going to do what it takes to get the deal done. Cancelling this deal >1 year later (and now after that infamous infograph from the offcial BJP twitter acc) would be a humiliation Modi would never accept. One way or another the deal gets done that is my impression and one I am told by others in the know (somewhat) is a fair reflection of what is to come.

I'd also point out that NO ONE, outside of maybe 20 people on both sides has any clue of the true state of the talks and all are bound by offical secrets acts so all this nonsensical talk of "deal in trouble" is pure conjecture is not outright misniformation with an agenda (ie on the payroll of SAAB/Boeing/LM etc).

If those sharks had a chance then we would have seen something come of Ash Carter's visit but he couldn't even depart with LEMOA in his back pocket nor has the USG conceded to India's demands on critical ToT. Outside of the French there are no viable candidates but that doesn't mean the road isn't going to be a hard one to walk down. Once again, Dassualt are the ONLY OEM who has presented a true MII proposal for a fighter line in India that is fully compliant with India's demands, no one else is even close (Boeing could offer it in maybe 2 years pending USG approval that has never remotely seemed forthcoming).


If the Rafale deal was off the table we'd have seen something, anything, else being proposed a sa plan "B" but not even more MKIs are on the horizon and the declining SQN strength has been personally noted by the PM and DM.

You should have said what MP said about BJP advertisements. He said that one over enthusiastic fool from BJP IT cell read newspaper reports which said deal was done and believed it and took out that ad and has since been penalized. He categorically stated there is no agreement on price. All this is today's news.

If there is no agreement even today on basic price then it raises some serious questions - Only Fair No? He didn't say some technical details are left, he didn't say MII aspect is being finalized, He didn't say ToT aspect is being looked into.

He said Price - Which is the MOST important part of a contract. If buyer and seller cannot agree on price then the deal is far from done.

I wonder why is it taking so much time? Vanilla pricing for 36 off the shelf purchase and it has been months and approaching a year.